PFF#2: The Perfect Oline

[The Caped Crusader]

(09-21-2015, 11:43 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: For anyone who is interested in ESPN's QBR, Dalton had a 90.0 (5th best) against the Raiders and a 67.8 against the Chargers (14th).

Dalton currently sports the 5th best passer rating and ESPN QBR in the NFL.

I'm still trying to figure out why Dalton was rated sooo much lower in the Chargers game. I get that he wasn't quite as sharp, but he was still fantastic.

I thought he was. He played a better defense and had several times where he could have gone 'happy' feet and made the right plays. He had two or three throws (one a definite TD) I would have liked back but still, he didn't put the team in a bad position, ever, as far as I am concerned.

[Johnny Cupcakes]

(09-21-2015, 11:43 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: For anyone who is interested in ESPN's QBR, Dalton had a 90.0 (5th best) against the Raiders and a 67.8 against the Chargers (14th).

Dalton currently sports the 5th best passer rating and ESPN QBR in the NFL.

I'm still trying to figure out why Dalton was rated sooo much lower in the Chargers game. I get that he wasn't quite as sharp, but he was still fantastic.

I think the completion percentage is what dragged him down.  Later in the game, he missed quite a few throws.  When you lower completions and raise attempts in the passer rating machine, the rating plummets.

http://brucey.net/nflab/statistics/qb_rating.html

[MrRager]

(09-22-2015, 12:40 AM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: I think the completion percentage is what dragged him down.  Later in the game, he missed quite a few throws.  When you lower completions and raise attempts in the passer rating machine, the rating plummets.

http://brucey.net/nflab/statistics/qb_rating.html

I think he was talking about the QBR, not the passer rating. ESPN's QBR may fault him more for missing a few of those throws that could ahve led to scores. It will just be an incomplete pass in traditional passer rating, but will be a negative in QBR (or PFF's ratings). 

[Brownshoe]

(09-22-2015, 12:40 AM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: I think the completion percentage is what dragged him down.  Later in the game, he missed quite a few throws.  When you lower completions and raise attempts in the passer rating machine, the rating plummets.

http://brucey.net/nflab/statistics/qb_rating.html

Dalton still has high completion %. He had 61.5%, and that's not bad at all.

[GreenCornBengal]

(09-21-2015, 04:03 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Easly Bodine's best game. Hope he has more similar games.

Also with Nelson it doesn't surprise me. Gave zero help on that TD and was in zone coverage. You can't let a good team do that to you.

I'll take the blame. I jinxed Nelson with the SD killa thread.

[Shake n Blake]

(09-22-2015, 01:21 AM)MrRager Wrote: I think he was talking about the QBR, not the passer rating. ESPN's QBR may fault him more for missing a few of those throws that could ahve led to scores. It will just be an incomplete pass in traditional passer rating, but will be a negative in QBR (or PFF's ratings). 

Yes, thank you. I was talking about his lower ratings from both ESPN's QBR and PFF as well.

I didn't get to see the 2nd half, but looking over the stats, it doesn't look like he was bad after halftime.

As far as passer rating, Dalton actually had a higher rating against the Chargers (126.1) than the Raiders (115.9).

Yet his QBR and PFF ratings were substantially lower for the Chargers game.

[Joelist]

The PFF rating system is in some ways as bad as ESPNs QBR joke. It's very subjective and indeed a lot of the time it is hard to understand where their ratings come from. That said, unlike ESPN it does not pretend to be some sort of objective standard so in that respect I prefer it (but still prefer simple passer rating the best).

[Guy Incognito]

(09-22-2015, 06:59 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Yes, thank you. I was talking about his lower ratings from both ESPN's QBR and PFF as well.

I didn't get to see the 2nd half, but looking over the stats, it doesn't look like he was bad after halftime.

As far as passer rating, Dalton actually had a higher rating against the Chargers (126.1) than the Raiders (115.9).

Yet his QBR and PFF ratings were substantially lower for the Chargers game.

From the Guy Incognito eyeball test only, which is universally accepted as mediocre to sub-par, Dalton looked on top of his game in the first half, but kind of "meh" in the second half.  I would guess his ratings are higher for the Oakland game because he was great in the first half and non-existent (in a good way by bleeding the clock) in the 2nd.

[Psycholomonkey]

Don't centers usually take several years to fully develop? Seems to me Bodine's progress has always been great even with some down moments when viewed in that context. Someone once told me 4-5 years for centers to be truly ready. I'm not as football savvy as many on here, so do you agree that is at all true?

[Brownshoe]

(09-22-2015, 07:05 PM)Joelist Wrote: The PFF rating system is in some ways as bad as ESPNs QBR joke. It's very subjective and indeed a lot of the time it is hard to understand where their ratings come from. That said, unlike ESPN it does not pretend to be some sort of objective standard so in that respect I prefer it (but still prefer simple passer rating the best).

I agree. I don't like PFF that much at all. Passer rating still doesn't mean how well the QB played. It's just a formula that measures efficiency with the ball. It's not a perfect formula either.

[Stormborn]

Brownshoe
Dalton still has high completion %. He had 61.5%, and that's not bad at all.

It ranked 24th out of the 34 qbs this week, and would've ranked 20th out of 26 qbs who played the majority of their teams qb snaps.

It's not a high number anymore. However, his makes were better than his misses. You'd have to nitpick his performance about slightly overthrowing deep balls and possibly leaving points on the board, but this can be attributed to the lack of rythm in the 2nd half on passing plays. He's not the guy that can just nail throws anytime, he needs a build up. Streaky passers are streaky.

[grampahol]

Passer ratings don't take into consideration the other side of the equation, the guy who should be catching the ball nor the defender. If every receiver drops every pass, even if every pass is perfect it doesn't say a whole lot about the QB if anything.

[Joelist]

(09-22-2015, 08:52 PM)grampahol Wrote: Passer ratings don't take into consideration the other side of the equation,  the guy who should be catching the ball nor the defender. If every receiver drops every pass, even if every pass is perfect it doesn't say a whole lot about the QB if anything.

No system of rating is perfect. But passer rating beats out the others that are out there.

[EatonFan]

How many snaps did Fisher play? And what was his grade?

[RiverRat13]

I like Football Outsiders' DYAR:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

Andy missed a few throws against SD. But he missed them in a manner that led to incompletions, not interceptions, so I can live with that.

[Luvnit2]

(09-22-2015, 06:59 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Yes, thank you. I was talking about his lower ratings from both ESPN's QBR and PFF as well.

I didn't get to see the 2nd half, but looking over the stats, it doesn't look like he was bad after halftime.

As far as passer rating, Dalton actually had a higher rating against the Chargers (126.1) than the Raiders (115.9).

Yet his QBR and PFF ratings were substantially lower for the Chargers game.

I thought AD was close to flawless in the Raider's game. The Charger's game I thought he did miss a couple of throws he can and will make this year.

But, the thing I liked was his misses were our guy catches the ball or nobody catches the ball. I also know he dumped to throws at least out of bounds to avoid sacks. I also thought that was a good sign versus forcing throws.

I am a traditional QBR guy so I have never been a fan of ESPN or PFF. I am not saying they are total garbage, but it is highly subjective ratings for those 2 versus facts only. If the same guy was rating all 15 games each week, I may be more of a fan of PFF's QBR system.

[Stormborn]

(09-23-2015, 12:59 AM)EatonFan Wrote: How many snaps did Fisher play?  And what was his grade?

7 snaps, grade of .2

An uncovered wheel route being your only catch and target won't enhance your grade though

[EatonFan]

I was more interested in his blocking grade. He looked bad in preseason.

[MrRager]

(09-22-2015, 08:12 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: I agree. I don't like PFF that much at all. Passer rating still doesn't mean how well the QB played. It's just a formula that measures efficiency with the ball. It's not a perfect formula either.

It is still significantly better than using volume yards or touchdowns. 

[Stormborn]

(09-23-2015, 01:42 PM)EatonFan Wrote: I was more interested in his blocking grade.  He looked bad in preseason.

That was his blocking grade, did ok besides getting mauled by Reyes once.