PFF#2: The Perfect Oline

[Brownshoe]

(09-23-2015, 01:50 PM)MrRager Wrote: It is still significantly better than using volume yards or touchdowns. 

That's your opinion. I'll stick with my yards, TDs, and INTs.

[djs7685]

(09-23-2015, 03:40 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: That's your opinion. I'll stick with my yards, TDs, and INTs.

The only person I've ever seen in my entire life that has called passer rating a dumb "made up stat" and that it doesn't accurately portray which QBs had better years than the others.

[Brownshoe]

(09-23-2015, 03:47 PM)djs7685 Wrote: The only person I've ever seen in my entire life that has called passer rating a dumb "made up stat" and that it doesn't accurately portray which QBs had better years than the others.

Maybe you just have been talking to people who don't understand what the formula for passer rating is the measurement for, because it's sure as shit not a measurement of how well a QB has played.

[djs7685]

(09-23-2015, 03:52 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Maybe you just have been talking to people who don't understand what the formula for passer rating is the measurement for, because it's sure as shit not a measurement of how well a QB has played.

Is it purely coincidence that the best QBs in the league are regularly the ones with higher passer ratings than the other guys?

Sure, a game or two here and there can skew the numbers (as it can with literally any statistic), but over the course of a full season, when have you ever seen a QB that has played GREAT not at the top or a QB that had a horrible year wasn't at the bottom?

I know you get super mad at passer rating because it doesn't usually assist your beloved over a 16 game season, but it's okay, I promise. You're the ONLY person that shit talks passer rating, so let's not act like everybody on this entire board is completely unaware of how the formula works. You just insulted 99% of people on here with that post, good job!

[Brownshoe]

(09-23-2015, 03:59 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Is it purely coincidence that the best QBs in the league are regularly the ones with higher passer ratings than the other guys?

Sure, a game or two here and there can skew the numbers (as it can with literally any statistic), but over the course of a full season, when have you ever seen a QB that has played GREAT not at the top or a QB that had a horrible year wasn't at the bottom?

I know you get super mad at passer rating because it doesn't usually assist your beloved over a 16 game season, but it's okay, I promise. You're the ONLY person that shit talks passer rating, so let's not act like everybody on this entire board is completely unaware of how the formula works. You just insulted 99% of people on here with that post, good job!

My bad I forgot that Mariota is the best QB so far this year, and Fitzpatrick was a top 10 QB last year.

[wolfkaosaun]

(09-23-2015, 04:16 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: My bad I forgot that Mariota is the best QB so far this year, and Fitzpatrick was a top 10 QB last year.

He played in 12 games and threw 312 passes. Didn't even finish his last game.

Josh McCown threw more passes and played in less games. And Nick Foles threw one less time and played in 4 less games.

26 other players passed more than Fitzpatrick.

Passer rating is a way to measure quarterbacks. But if you have a small sample size, then there can be inflamations.

Such as Dalton. Take out 4-5 of his games and his stats are much better.

Yards, touchdowns, and interceptions are ways to assess a quarterback, yes, but that doesn't tell the full tale.

Dalton had 19 TDs and 17 INTs last year. Low yardage too. So he did bad, right?

Or did he have the highest completion percentage in a season of his career?

QB ratings go a long way to assess how a quarterback did and does.

Plus, if you only go by TDs, yards, and INTs, then Mariota should have been the best QB after week 1, right? Don't even have to look at QB rating there.

[Joelist]

Last season was so weird between the new system and the number of injuries to WR and TE plus not using Hill until late in the season that it is hard to take anything from it.

[*SHRacerX*]

I like the old "Quarterback ranking" WAY better than the ESPN QBR, which seems to give huge points for come from behind wins and seemingly penalizes a QB that has a conservative gameplan if playing with a significant lead. The QBR is largely flawed, where the old quarterback rating had a component for YPA, which is often overlooked.

[Joelist]

The QBR also specifically favors running QBs over pocket passers. That was part of how both the Terrell Pryor and Tim Tebow silliness in it occurred.

[*Synric*]

Film is the only way to assess any football player at any level. That's why PFF USED be a decent site.

[wolfkaosaun]

(09-23-2015, 11:04 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I like the old "Quarterback ranking" WAY better than the ESPN QBR, which seems to give huge points for come from behind wins and seemingly penalizes a QB that has a conservative gameplan if playing with a significant lead.  The QBR is largely flawed, where the old quarterback rating had a component for YPA, which is often overlooked.

(09-24-2015, 12:19 AM)Joelist Wrote: The QBR also specifically favors running QBs over pocket passers.  That was part of how both the Terrell Pryor and Tim Tebow silliness in it occurred.

I hate ESPN's QBR. It doesn't really work for quarterbacks and is straight up terrible. No one brings it up in conversation except for people who act like Alex Smith had the greatest game ever forever ago.

[djs7685]

(09-23-2015, 04:16 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: My bad I forgot that Mariota is the best QB so far this year, and Fitzpatrick was a top 10 QB last year.

Yeah man, like I said, smaller sample sizes can definitely skew things, but for the most part you're NEVER going to find a QB with a high passer rating over the course of a season that played poorly or a low passer rating that had a great season. It just doesn't happen, and you'll probably never be able to find a modern day example of it.

As somebody said, film is pretty much the only way to realistically evaluate an individual player, BUT, this is a message board so it's nice to have both subjective discussions as well as backing up statements with facts (stats and whatnot). Some positions on the field can be judged more by some sets of statistics than others though, and QB is one where we have a LOT to look at.

I understand that you only want to ever use criteria that fits your agenda, but you must realize that everybody that isn't you understands that passer rating isn't some janky, made up stat that's being used to improperly portray QB performance. It's the standard used if you wish to look at a single statistic that tells most of the story, and that's just how it is whether you like it or not.

I've never said that the guy with the 3rd highest passer rating is exactly the 3rd best QB in the league, so don't twist what I'm saying here.

[JADefense]

(09-23-2015, 09:24 AM)RiverRat13 Wrote: I like Football Outsiders' DYAR:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

Andy missed a few throws against SD.  But he missed them in a manner that led to incompletions, not interceptions, so I can live with that.

Excellent point about Andy's "misses" against SD.  Add in the tipped pass intended for Green, the "incomplete" pass when Teo obliterated Andy and the "good decision" throw aways - it's clear he had a really good game.  Had he completed one or two of the open passes to Green, Sanu or Bulkhead and it would have been a great game. 

By the way, every QB, even the elite guys, have one or two incompletions during a game that they wish they could have back.