Is MB Cheap really?

[Luvnit2]

Each year we see fans state MB is cheap and his goal is to pocket money from the salary cap revenue by under spending. Here are the facts, Bengals roll over 100% of unused cap money so they can spend it the following years. In other words, the money is used year after year for salaries and none goes to MB's pocket.

Here are the facts of teams in our division left over salary cap money according to Spotrac:

2016 - Browns $42 Million
Steelers - 5.7 million
Bengals - 5.6 million
Ravens - 4.3 million

2017 - Browns 59.5 million
Bengals - 10.1 million
Steelers 4.9 million
Ravens - 3.4 million

2018 - Browns 54 million
Steelers - 10.9 million
Bengals - 8.5 million'
Ravens - 8.3 million

2019 - Browns 37.6 million
Ravens - 9.4 million
Bengals - 7.1 million
Steelers - 3.2 million

What does it mean? Bengals rolled over 10.1 million or less every year
Browns far exceeded rest of division in less spending
Other 3 teams are all pretty close on spend

There is nothing here suggesting MB does not pay his players well, this pattern is consistent since the 2011 new collective bargaining agreement.

Can we put to bed MB is cheap? Cincinnati is a small market team (one of the smallest), yet year after year they spend with the mid and large market teams. The argument to suggest MB is cheap because he does not hire a GM is also a bad one. MB (I do not agree) feels he has as much football knowledge as any GM so he has filled the role with the help of Katie and Tobin in recent history. Argue philosophy on drafting and allocating the big bucks being spent, that is valid, but not the MB is cheap label.

Thoughts??

[scorp1974]

Then he spends his money poorly.

[J24]

Practice facility

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-02-2019, 01:08 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Practice facility

And the disparity in number of scouts compared to other teams.

He’s cheap. Let’s be honest. This thread was probably well intentioned, but it feels like a spin job...

[Socal Bengals fan]

He’s not very good with his money then. Hart making 7 million is all you need to know.

[WhodeyRay]

Not cheap just stupid with his spending on the team. Which is odd for such a money smart person in his own life.

[Pat5775]

I wouldn’t say Mike is “cheap”, per se... more like “oblivious” or “delusional”. I don’t think money is the issue with the practice field, he just doesn’t believe it’s necessary.

I think the bigger issue is this offseason free agency. We easily had the worst linebacking core and offensive line in the league last year. And they go out and draft one LB, sign no FA LB’s, extend Bobby Hart, bring John Jerry back sign nothing but practice squad-caliber Olinemen...

Frustrating, to say the least. These issues were/are so obvious, yet next to nothing had been done (I’ll give them some props for drafting Jonah Williams, can’t fault them for bad luck but still... much more should have been done).

[McC]

(09-02-2019, 01:16 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: He’s not very good with his money then.  Hart making 7 million is all you need to know.

Bobby Hart


Year  2019

Age 25
Base Salary  $900,000
Prorated Bonus  $1,000,000
Roster Bonus    $2,500.000
Per Game Roster Bonus   $500,000
Workout Bonus  $500,000
Other Bonus  $500,000

Guaranteed Salary  $2,500,000

Cap Number  $5,900,000

Three year deal--average $5.5 million/year   $5.5 million guaranteed.

[Beaker]

No...he isnt cheap. The cheap narrative should have died years ago.

[J24]

(09-02-2019, 01:12 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: And the disparity in number of scouts compared to other teams.

He’s cheap. Let’s be honest. This thread was probably well intentioned, but it feels like a spin job...

100%
No he is cheap and what's worse he is also a dumbass.

[Luvnit2]

(09-02-2019, 01:12 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: And the disparity in number of scouts compared to other teams.

He’s cheap. Let’s be honest. This thread was probably well intentioned, but it feels like a spin job...

Spin?

It is based on facts and the biggest yearly expenditure an owner controls????

[Luvnit2]

(09-02-2019, 01:38 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: I wouldn’t say Mike is “cheap”, per se... more like “oblivious” or “delusional”. I don’t think money is the issue with the practice field, he just doesn’t believe it’s necessary.

I think the bigger issue is this offseason free agency. We easily had the worst linebacking core and offensive line in the league last year. And they go out and draft one LB, sign no FA LB’s, extend Bobby Hart, bring John Jerry back  sign nothing but practice squad-caliber Olinemen...

Frustrating, to say the least. These issues were/are so obvious, yet next to nothing had been done (I’ll give them some props for drafting Jonah Williams, can’t fault them for bad luck but still... much more should have been done).

There is only 7.1 million left to spend on players in 2019. What can they or could have they got get for 7.1 million? Also, if they spend it in 2019, no roll over money for AJ contract in 2020. 

It is not as easy as it appears to manage the cap.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-02-2019, 01:38 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: I wouldn’t say Mike is “cheap”, per se... more like “oblivious” or “delusional”. I don’t think money is the issue with the practice field, he just doesn’t believe it’s necessary.

I think the bigger issue is this offseason free agency. We easily had the worst linebacking core and offensive line in the league last year. And they go out and draft one LB, sign no FA LB’s, extend Bobby Hart, bring John Jerry back sign nothing but practice squad-caliber Olinemen...

Frustrating, to say the least. These issues were/are so obvious, yet next to nothing had been done (I’ll give them some props for drafting Jonah Williams, can’t fault them for bad luck but still... much more should have been done).

No we didn’t. There were lots of teams that gave up more sacks (we were actually middle of the pack at 2.3 per game), and that didn’t have a 1k yrd RB.

They were certainly bad, but they weren’t “easily the worst.”

The LBers are a little harder to quantify, but yeah, they might have been the worst...

[McC]

(09-02-2019, 01:38 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: I wouldn’t say Mike is “cheap”, per se... more like “oblivious” or “delusional”. I don’t think money is the issue with the practice field, he just doesn’t believe it’s necessary.

I think the bigger issue is this offseason free agency. We easily had the worst linebacking core and offensive line in the league last year. And they go out and draft one LB, sign no FA LB’s, extend Bobby Hart, bring John Jerry back  sign nothing but practice squad-caliber Olinemen...

Frustrating, to say the least. These issues were/are so obvious, yet next to nothing had been done (I’ll give them some props for drafting Jonah Williams, can’t fault them for bad luck but still... much more should have been done).

What OL or LB's who were available should they have signed?  

[Luvnit2]

(09-02-2019, 01:47 PM)Beaker Wrote: No...he isnt cheap. The cheap narrative should have died years ago.

Some think throwing loads of cash at a problem is the only solution (opposite of cheap).

Look at LA and Seattle homeless situations for example (not trying to be political), money by the boat loads has been spent on the crisis, yet the crisis got worse.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-02-2019, 01:48 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: ?
No he is cheap and what's worse he is also a dumbass.

Your reading comprehension needs work. I AGREED with you. He’s cheap.

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-02-2019, 12:56 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Each year we see fans state MB is cheap and his goal is to pocket money from the salary cap revenue by under spending. Here are the facts, Bengals roll over 100% of unused cap money so they can spend it the following years. In other words, the money is used year after year for salaries and none goes to MB's pocket.

Here are the facts of teams in our division left over salary cap money according to Spotrac:

2016 - Browns $42 Million
Steelers - 5.7 million
Bengals - 5.6 million
Ravens - 4.3 million

2017 - Browns 59.5 million
Bengals - 10.1 million
Steelers 4.9 million
Ravens - 3.4 million

2018 - Browns 54 million
Steelers - 10.9 million
Bengals - 8.5 million'
Ravens - 8.3 million

2019 - Browns 37.6 million
Ravens - 9.4 million
Bengals - 7.1 million
Steelers - 3.2 million

What does it mean? Bengals rolled over 10.1 million or less every year
Browns far exceeded rest of division in less spending
Other 3 teams are all pretty close on spend

There is nothing here suggesting MB does not pay his players well, this pattern is consistent since the 2011 new collective bargaining agreement.

Can we put to bed MB is cheap? Cincinnati is a small market team (one of the smallest), yet year after year they spend with the mid and large market teams. The argument to suggest MB is cheap because he does not hire a GM is also a bad one. MB (I do not agree) feels he has as much football knowledge as any GM so he has filled the role with the help of Katie and Tobin in recent history. Argue philosophy on drafting and allocating the big bucks being spent, that is valid, but not the MB is cheap label.

Thoughts??

This is similar to the "Marv never plays rookies" argument. It's not as simple as A+B=C.

The Bengals can pay their players a certain salary, re-up their own Free Agents and sign outside Free Agents, just like everyone else. They can do all this and, for lack of a better term, manipulate the salary cap so they do what they're supposed to do--spending wise--and point to how they spend money just like everyone else. 

I'm not advocating they go out and break the bank, spends loads on outside free agents, but they could certainly do a better job of evaluating their needs and targeting one, or maybe even two, really good in their prime players to help the team. We all know they don't and have never done this. They recently started speding on better free agents, but they're still not proven, healthy producers. Probably the closest they've come was Preston Brown but even he could be just considered solid and not spectacular. 

So, it's not fair to say Mike Brown is cheap, any more than it's fair to say Marv never played rookies. It is fair to say that MB is very reactionary, very slow to change and adopt recent trends and it's hard to argue against him being very frugal and wanting to make sure the profit margin is as big as possible. 

Mike Brown is a classic 'half measure' owner. Does just enough to satisfy the bare minimum and only makes changes well past their expiration date. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

And if you factor in the sweetheart deal he got on the stadium it’s even worse that he doesn’t spend more...

[Clark W Griswold]

He does spend on his own players but comes across as cheap when you see him charging players to rent TVs at training camp, charging for Gatorades in the locker room and driving a cheap, old car. I remember how embarrassing it was watching hard knocks and seeing all the petty things he would charge players for.

[Socal Bengals fan]

Can you imagine coming from Oregon university or Norte Dane or any of the top programs to the Bengals where the facilities are not half as good as the college teams. Embarrassing. Brown has never signed a big time free agent, still not practice ability but yeah he’s not “cheap”. Same people that defend this are the ones expecting Bengals to the super bowl this year.