Is MB Cheap really?

[THE PISTONS]

(09-04-2019, 10:33 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The Favre Super Bowl was over 20 years ago, but your point still stands.

Yep...they've also won about 19 playoff games since we last won 1.

I wouldn't call that poorly managed by any stretch.

People on this board generally overstate what the Bengals do and understate what other teams do.

[*ochocincos*]

MB is not cheap overall.
He's considered cheap when it comes to outside FAs.

For 2019, the Bengals are spending the following on outside FAs:
Miller - $5.3 mill
Webb - $3 mill
Wynn - $1.3 mill
Cooper - $0.72 mill
Jerry - $0.65 mill
Perine - $0.65 mill
----------------------
$11.6 mill total

Given the max salary cap this year is $196.1 mill, the Bengals are spending just under 6% of its cap on outside FAs.
However, they have spent 92.6% of their total salary cap this year, showing that they do spend overall.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(09-04-2019, 12:41 AM)McC Wrote: He's a shitty football owner.  But isn't the measure of a businessman how much money he makes?  And how easily he makes it?  

No. The measure is the VALUE of the business and Mikey has his team's value in the bottom 2 or 3 in the league due to his approach to running it. If the Brown family were to sell today they would receive up to 1 Billion less then they would have if they had run it better. And, BTW, if they had run it better they would also make more money annually - more demand for the brand and product. 

Katie once said 'running an NFL team is really hard" which is a ***** joke, it is the easiest business to run. the Revenue side is all but guaranteed and the highest part of your expenses (player salaries) are capped and capped well below the guaranteed revenue. The NFL is a business gift. 

No 'normal' business has guaranteed revenue and capped expenses - you have to fight for revenue and control expenses. 

[McC]

(09-04-2019, 12:56 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He’d make even more if he was better at running the team. Chad Johnson and Kroger wouldn’t have to buy tickets to avoid blackouts because people don’t want to pay to go to games...

There’s also revenue sharing. Which he makes money from without doing a damn thing.

It's a high dollar form of welfare, for sure.  But if the bottom line is the measure of business success...

He may be bad at a lot of things, but he ain't bad at making money the easy way.

[Whatever]

(09-04-2019, 10:21 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: They've won Super Bowls in the last 20 years with 2 different QB's. You don't luck into that.

There's always luck involved in getting a HoF QB. The Packers have had HoF QB play for almost 3 decades now, and only won 2 titles.  If we're talking guys that retired since Favre took over in GB, Montana, Aikman, Elway and Peyton all won two or more SB's.  Favre, Young, and Warner retired with 1 and Marino never won one.  That's a 1.75 average for a HoF QB. Among guys still playing, the guys who are HoF locks(Brady, Ben, Brees, and Rodgers) average 2.5 titles, although Brady weights that heavily.  

[McC]

(09-04-2019, 11:35 AM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: No. The measure is the VALUE of the business and Mikey has his team's value in the bottom 2 or 3 in the league due to his approach to running it. If the Brown family were to sell today they would receive up to 1 Billion less then they would have if they had run it better. And, BTW, if they had run it better they would also make more money annually - more demand for the brand and product. 

Katie once said 'running an NFL team is really hard" which is a ***** joke, it is the easiest business to run. the Revenue side is all but guaranteed and the highest part of your expenses (player salaries) are capped and capped well below the guaranteed revenue. The NFL is a business gift. 

No 'normal' business has guaranteed revenue and capped expenses - you have to fight for revenue and control expenses. 

It is the 30th most valuable franchise in the league.  And it's still worth 1.8 billion.  1.8 billion.  How much did he pay for it again?   All he had to do to get it was be born.  You telling me you wouldn't take that deal?

[Luvnit2]

(09-04-2019, 11:47 AM)McC Wrote: It is the 30th most valuable franchise in the league.  And it's still worth 1.8 billion.  1.8 billion.  How much did he pay for it again?   All he had to do to get it was be born.  You telling me you wouldn't take that deal?

I love people (not you) who have a net worth of $10,000 mimicking successful businessmen who are worth billions by taking theri million dollar equity to a billion dollar equity.

Who cares how they got it? They still have to manage it, manage the taxe and the business for it to grow. I have seen many family business thriving under parents go bankrupt when kids take over.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-04-2019, 11:44 AM)Whatever Wrote: There's always luck involved in getting a HoF QB. The Packers have had HoF QB play for almost 3 decades now, and only won 2 titles.  If we're talking guys that retired since Favre took over in GB, Montana, Aikman, Elway and Peyton all won two or more SB's.  Favre, Young, and Warner retired with 1 and Marino never won one.  That's a 1.75 average for a HoF QB. Among guys still playing, the guys who are HoF locks(Brady, Ben, Brees, and Rodgers) average 2.5 titles, although Brady weights that heavily.  

Yes...the forum generally views teams that win as lucky and the Bengals as unlucky.

Team A - 19 playoff wins over a span.
Team B - 0 playoff wins over a span.

It's not luck.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-04-2019, 11:26 AM)ochocincos Wrote: MB is not cheap overall.
He's considered cheap when it comes to outside FAs.

For 2019, the Bengals are spending the following on outside FAs:
Miller - $5.3 mill
Webb - $3 mill
Wynn - $1.3 mill
Cooper - $0.72 mill
Jerry - $0.65 mill
Perine - $0.65 mill
----------------------
$11.6 mill total

Given the max salary cap this year is $196.1 mill, the Bengals are spending just under 6% of its cap on outside FAs.
However, they have spent 92.6% of their total salary cap this year, showing that they do spend overall.

Isn't the spending floor like 88%? The NFL legislated that in so teams have to spend.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-04-2019, 12:10 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I love people (not you) who have a net worth of $10,000 mimicking successful businessmen who are worth billions by taking theri million dollar equity to a billion dollar equity.

Who cares how they got it? They still have to manage it, manage the taxe and the business for it to grow. I have seen many family business thriving under parents go bankrupt when kids take over.

Once again, with revenue sharing...the NFL is pretty much guaranteed to make money.

[*ochocincos*]

(09-04-2019, 12:18 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Isn't the spending floor like 88%? The NFL legislated that in so teams have to spend.

Not exactly. Teams are permitted to go below the "floor" in a given year but must spend (at least) to that floor over a set of years (I believe it's 4?).
https://www.bucsnation.com/2015/3/13/8208069/nfl-salary-cap-floor-explained-its-basically-irrelevant

[Whatever]

(09-04-2019, 11:35 AM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: No. The measure is the VALUE of the business and Mikey has his team's value in the bottom 2 or 3 in the league due to his approach to running it. If the Brown family were to sell today they would receive up to 1 Billion less then they would have if they had run it better. And, BTW, if they had run it better they would also make more money annually - more demand for the brand and product. 

Katie once said 'running an NFL team is really hard" which is a ***** joke, it is the easiest business to run. the Revenue side is all but guaranteed and the highest part of your expenses (player salaries) are capped and capped well below the guaranteed revenue. The NFL is a business gift. 

No 'normal' business has guaranteed revenue and capped expenses - you have to fight for revenue and control expenses. 

That doesn't really make sense.  People mistakenly assume that Mikey inherited the Lion's share of the Bengals when in reality, he inherited 51%.  He's been buying the rest up over time.  He would basically have to double the value of the franchise to make the same money on a sale in your example, but why would he want to increase the franchise value and drive up the cost of the shares he's trying to buy on himself?  The smart business play is to consolidate ownership first, then reinvest to drive up the value.  

[Luvnit2]

(09-04-2019, 12:20 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Once again, with revenue sharing...the NFL is pretty much guaranteed to make money.

Like I said, people with little financial success should not be lecturing those with success. I see it as jealousy or ignorance.

[Whatever]

(09-04-2019, 12:17 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yes...the forum generally views teams that win as lucky and the Bengals as unlucky.

Team A - 19 playoff wins over a span.
Team B - 0 playoff wins over a span.

It's not luck.

Sure it's not. That's why the Packers traded up to #1 to get Rodgers, because they knew he was a HoF QB.  It was sheer luck that he lasted 25 picks.  

Nobody is arguing that the Bengals are well run.  I guess the Detroit Lion's are well run by your standards, because they've won a playoff game more recently.  If "won more playoff games in the last 26 years than the Bengals" is your criteria for a well run team, then every other team in the league is well run.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-04-2019, 12:24 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Like I said, people with little financial success should not be lecturing those with success. I see it as jealousy or ignorance.

The MB fan club sure does get all worked up trying to justify his success...to the point where you resort to personal attacks. Interesting.

Here's a factoid: I've won the same exact amount of playoff games as MB has as an owner.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-04-2019, 12:35 PM)Whatever Wrote: Sure it's not. That's why the Packers traded up to #1 to get Rodgers, because they knew he was a HoF QB.  It was sheer luck that he lasted 25 picks.  

Nobody is arguing that the Bengals are well run.  I guess the Detroit Lion's are well run by your standards, because they've won a playoff game more recently.  If "won more playoff games in the last 26 years than the Bengals" is your criteria for a well run team, then every other team in the league is well run.

There's a development factor to Rodgers too. The Packers developed him.

Had the Bengals selected him, would he be the same HOF QB? Or would he have turned into Palmer?

Re: The Lions. They've won what 1 playoff game since we have. The Packers have won 19. Obviously it's easy to quantify success in numbers.

[Luvnit2]

(09-04-2019, 01:16 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The MB fan club  sure does get all worked up trying to justify his success...to the point where you resort to personal attacks. Interesting.

Here's a factoid: I've won the same exact amount of playoff games as MB has as an owner.

Nope, no personal attack was made towards you. Just an opinion stated for anyone who talks out of their rear end about financial success of a billionaire, but has little to no financial success.
 Jealous or ignorant, that is my opinion of those individuals.

No MB fan club, just a fellow businessman of over 40 years who respects successful businesses and others who understand how to make money and stay in business.

[Whatever]

(09-04-2019, 01:21 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: There's a development factor to Rodgers too. The Packers developed him.

Had the Bengals selected him, would he be the same HOF QB? Or would he have turned into Palmer?

Re: The Lions. They've won what 1 playoff game since we have. The Packers have won 19. Obviously it's easy to quantify success in numbers.

We're obviously talking hypotheticals here, but Rodgers came out in '05.  Rodgers behind the '05 Bengals OL throwing to Chad, TJ, and Henry with Rudi in the backfield is scary, on paper.  I don't think he ever had that much talent around him in GB at the same time.

Palmer looked like an elite QB until he got hurt.  If he doesn't get Kimo'd, is he the guy that would have taken us to the promised Land?  Could Rodgers have avoided that hit with his better mobility and pocket presence?  Would Greg Cook have won SB's if he hadn't gotten hurt?


The Packers are run better than the Bengals, no doubt.  A big reason for that is they are more cutthroat with vets and coaches, while Mikey gets hung up on loyalty way too much.  They've won 2 titles with 2 HoF QB's in the past 3 decades, but they should have won more based on the level of QB play they've had.  

[t3r3e3]

(09-04-2019, 12:10 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I love people (not you) who have a net worth of $10,000 mimicking successful businessmen who are worth billions by taking theri million dollar equity to a billion dollar equity.

Who cares how they got it? They still have to manage it, manage the taxe and the business for it to grow. I have seen many family business thriving under parents go bankrupt when kids take over.

The team’s Playoff success went bankrupt the day Mike took over. 28 years and counting of epic failure. The NFL is the ultimate form of socialism, and Mike has still managed to bungle it royally. Guaranteed revenue sharing and capped salary expenditures, plus the best stadium deal in the league, and he still can’t run a quality organization. Mike’s bargain bin stratagems have kneecapped the team. Hence, they’re worth far less than their small market counterparts that have invested into their team and brand. Mike is a bum of an owner and businessman. If the team was not protected by revenue sharing and a salary cap they would have been forced to sell years ago because they produce a perennially subpar product.

[*Nately120*]

(09-04-2019, 11:44 AM)McC Wrote: It's a high dollar form of welfare, for sure.  But if the bottom line is the measure of business success...

He may be bad at a lot of things, but he ain't bad at making money the easy way.

Well, the easiest way to make money is to inherit it, so yeah you've got a point there.  The dude inherited the closest thing to a money tree the modern world has created...the lucky stiff!

(09-04-2019, 01:42 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Nope, no personal attack was made towards you. Just an opinion stated for anyone who talks out of their rear end about financial success of a billionaire, but has little to no financial success.
 Jealous or ignorant, that is my opinion of those individuals.

No MB fan club, just a fellow businessman of over 40 years who respects successful businesses and others who understand how to make money and stay in business.

How far does this qualification go, though?  I mean, how many platinum albums do I have to have before I can say Justin Beiber sucks?