How Much Power Does ZT Have?

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-05-2019, 07:40 PM)Nately120 Wrote:

Super 'shop skillz bro! 

[Whatever]

(09-05-2019, 11:10 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Maybe the Bengals interviewed all 122 OC's from college that had a better offense than him and they turned us down?

Anything's possible.  Although I think they wanted someone to bring a version of the Rams' offense to the Bengals, so I'm not sure how much they really cared about what Zac did before his time with McVay.  

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-05-2019, 10:42 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Maybe those defenses finished in the Top 10 because they shut down the Dolphins offense?

Well, they didn't "shut down" their offense. In 3 of the last 5 games, the offense had 360+ total yards. That's above average, on a per game basis.

The Chargers were the only team that really "shut them down". 

[NKURyan]

(09-05-2019, 11:38 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Well, they didn't "shut down" their offense. In 3 of the last 5 games, the offense had 360+ total yards. That's above average, on a per game basis.

The Chargers were the only team that really "shut them down". 

Pfft, get those "facts" out of here. He's just going to ignore them anyways.

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-05-2019, 10:52 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: re: UC's players being the issue - One of the main narratives on this board is that ZT would be an improvement over Marvins coaching. If he could make UC's offense better than 123rd how does he improve teams?

Lemme axt you a question. It goes directly towards the question of why UCs offense was so bad in 2016. Before the question, we can pretty much assume that Tubberville and not Taylor made decisions on who would start and who wouldn't, no?

In 2014, Gunnar Kiel played in 13 games, passed for 3,254 yards, threw 31 TDs and had a rating of 149.4
In 2015, Gunnar Kiel played in 10 games (injured several times), passed for 2,777 yards, threw for 19 TDs and had a rating of 151.9
In 2016, Gunnar Kiel was demoted to 3rd string behind Sophomore Hayden Moore, who threw for 11 TDs and had a rating of 123.4

My question is...why would Tubberville bench a 5th year Senior, with good stats and talent, for a Soph who would never do much in his entire college career?

The answer should point you towards the answer as to why UCs offense was so bad in Zac's year there. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-05-2019, 11:04 PM)NKURyan Wrote: It's almost like their leading rusher and top four receivers graduated after 2015, before Tuberville shoved the starting QB into the doghouse.

Can't imagine why the offense would take a step back.  You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

Tommy Tuberville wasn't even here in 2017 and 2018, they had an actual head coach who gave a shit and could recruit. Hence the offense *finally* improved in 2018 when they had actual talent again.

The guy before Taylor had Gunnar Kiel
The guy after Taylor had Desmond Ridder
Taylor had...Hayden Moore

[Rubekahn29]

(09-06-2019, 12:06 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Lemme axt you a question. It goes directly towards the question of why UCs offense was so bad in 2016. Before the question, we can pretty much assume that Tubberville and not Taylor made decisions on who would start and who wouldn't, no?

In 2014, Gunnar Kiel played in 13 games, passed for 3,254 yards, threw 31 TDs and had a rating of 149.4
In 2015, Gunnar Kiel played in 10 games (injured several times), passed for 2,777 yards, threw for 19 TDs and had a rating of 151.9
In 2016, Gunnar Kiel was demoted to 3rd string behind Sophomore Hayden Moore, who threw for 11 TDs and had a rating of 123.4

My question is...why would Tubberville bench a 5th year Senior, with good stats and talent, for a Soph who would never do much in his entire college career?

The answer should point you towards the answer as to why UCs offense was so bad in Zac's year there. 

Context....what is this notion? 

[NKURyan]

(09-06-2019, 12:12 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: The guy before Taylor had Gunnar Kiel
The guy after Taylor had Desmond Ridder
Taylor had...Hayden Moore

Yeah but like it's totes Zac's fault Hayden Moore never amounted to anything a year after losing his top 4 receivers and leading rusher. 

He's been told multiple times. He doesn't care.

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-05-2019, 11:07 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So IF a genius OC can't squeeze more than a 123rd ranked offense out of players...how is he going to do different here?

Let's face it, we're not the most innovative team from a player drafting and signing standpoint...so scheme will have to be what makes us.

How will ZT improve over what Marvin did?

I'm curious if you're not understanding the importance of a QB in the game of football? Honestly...i'm not being a smart ass, just curious because even the best coordinator/coach can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit. 

One thing, i guess, that should be pointed out as well...the Bengals passing offense improved this year, under Taylor, from last year under Marv. 

So, apples to apples(?), if he was worse with UC 3 years ago, and he's better now...does that matter?

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-05-2019, 11:55 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Pfft, get those "facts" out of here. He's just going to ignore them anyways.

But i'm a facts and context kind of guy!! 

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-06-2019, 12:14 AM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Context....what is this notion? 

I know right? 

lol

[J24]

Also for the crictism that Zac is hiring guys that he knows well that's what all coaches do. I don't really have a problem with that.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-06-2019, 12:06 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Lemme axt you a question. It goes directly towards the question of why UCs offense was so bad in 2016. Before the question, we can pretty much assume that Tubberville and not Taylor made decisions on who would start and who wouldn't, no?

In 2014, Gunnar Kiel played in 13 games, passed for 3,254 yards, threw 31 TDs and had a rating of 149.4
In 2015, Gunnar Kiel played in 10 games (injured several times), passed for 2,777 yards, threw for 19 TDs and had a rating of 151.9
In 2016, Gunnar Kiel was demoted to 3rd string behind Sophomore Hayden Moore, who threw for 11 TDs and had a rating of 123.4

My question is...why would Tubberville bench a 5th year Senior, with good stats and talent, for a Soph who would never do much in his entire college career?

The answer should point you towards the answer as to why UCs offense was so bad in Zac's year there. 

You guys/girls are ASSUMING that it was Tubberville's decision to bench Kiel. ZT came in as a QB Coach from the NFL. Taylor would have been atleast consulted in that decision one would assume...if it wasn't his decision.

I'm sure they thought the new guy could learn from Taylor and thrive in his offense. He obviously didn't develop.

2015: 33.8 ppg (37rd ranked offense. The year before Taylor came.)

2016: 19.6 ppg under Taylor

But, the notion that Tubberville basically put a bad QB in on purpose for the season to fail is likely not accurate. I'm sure THEY (yes - ZT included) probably thought they could get Moore to develop an have him for a few years in Taylors offense.

Obviously that plan failed and they BOTH got fired.

I doubt Tubberville had some diabolical plan to have the 123rd ranked offense. Obviously he thought Taylor/Moore would perform better.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-06-2019, 12:15 AM)NKURyan Wrote: Yeah but like it's totes Zac's fault Hayden Moore never amounted to anything a year after losing his top 4 receivers and leading rusher. 

He's been told multiple times. He doesn't care.

Absolutely. The OC is responsible for the offense and developing players and putting a scheme in that fits the players. ZT likely had atleast some say in which QB started too, if not total say. IF Tubberville was as checked out as you guys say, then Taylor might have had full control of the offense.

You guys/girls all hold Marvin/Lazor accountable for last years results and there were injuries. Yet you conveniently cherry pick the 4-1 start when healthy. That means IF healthy, we would have been 12-4 under Marvin right?

[THE PISTONS]

(09-06-2019, 02:11 AM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Also for the crictism that Zac is hiring guys that he knows well that's what all coaches do. I don't really have a problem with that.

Guys that he knows from working with them from losing organizations. We're rebuilding the Dolphins braintrust! Yay! That will pay off I'm sure.

Ex-Dolphins Coaching staff + Bengals Management = Greatness?

[THE PISTONS]

(09-06-2019, 12:20 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I'm curious if you're not understanding the importance of a QB in the game of football? Honestly...i'm not being a smart ass, just curious because even the best coordinator/coach can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit. 

One thing, i guess, that should be pointed out as well...the Bengals passing offense improved this year, under Taylor, from last year under Marv. 

So, apples to apples(?), if he was worse with UC 3 years ago, and he's better now...does that matter?

How do you know the Bengals passing offense has improved this year? Preseason?

[NKURyan]

(09-06-2019, 09:20 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: You guys/girls are ASSUMING that it was Tubberville's decision to bench Kiel. ZT came in as a QB Coach from the NFL. Taylor would have been atleast consulted in that decision one would assume...if it wasn't his decision.

I'm sure they thought the new guy could learn from Taylor and thrive in his offense. He obviously didn't develop.

2015: 33.8 ppg (37rd ranked offense. The year before Taylor came.)

2016: 19.6 ppg under Taylor

But, the notion that Tubberville basically put a bad QB in on purpose for the season to fail is likely not accurate. I'm sure THEY (yes - ZT included) probably thought they could get Moore to develop an have him for a few years in Taylors offense.

Obviously that plan failed and they BOTH got fired.

I doubt Tubberville had some diabolical plan to have the 123rd ranked offense. Obviously he thought Taylor/Moore would perform better.

We're not assuming jack squat, it was widespread knowledge and was talked about by Tuberville himself. He didn't like Gunner. He was asked about it constantly. You clearly weren't paying the slightest bit of attention to UC football so you need to stop pretending that he wasn't. Tuberville didn't give a rat's ass where his offense ended up finishing because he was here to get a paycheck and nothing more.

Again, you can quote those numbers all you want but it doesn't change the fact that the drop off is entirely related to the fact that they lost their 4 top receivers, leading rusher, and best QB. Any team is taking a huge step back at that point, especially a team in a mid-major conference with a head coach that has no interest in recruiting replacements.

You're clearly completely ignorant on the subject. It's not even debatable at this point. You should just move on and find some other terrible point to prop up.

[Whatever]

(09-06-2019, 02:11 AM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Also for the crictism that Zac is hiring guys that he knows well that's what all coaches do. I don't really have a problem with that.

Yup. Wasn't one of the main concerns on this board that most of the staff was still under contract and Mikey wouldn't let the new coach pick his staff?

[NKURyan]

(09-06-2019, 09:22 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: You guys/girls all hold Marvin/Lazor accountable for last years results and there were injuries. Yet you conveniently cherry pick the 4-1 start when healthy. That means IF healthy, we would have been 12-4 under Marvin right?

You've been one of the guys to say that we need to expect 10+ wins out of ZT for that exact reason, soooo....

[*PhilHos*]

(09-05-2019, 10:42 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Maybe those defenses finished in the Top 10 because they shut down the Dolphins offense?

The Dolphins only counted as 1 or 2 games for those teams out of 16, so no, they didn't finish in the top 10 because they shut down the Dolphins offense.

(09-05-2019, 10:42 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Ok. Now explain why his offense was ranked 123rd out of 128 teams at U of Cincy?

Don't know. Don't care. How someone's offense/defense ranked as a coordinator has absolutely zero bearing on how they are as a head coach.