How Much Power Does ZT Have?

[NKURyan]

(09-06-2019, 11:15 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Don't know. Don't care. How someone's offense/defense ranked as a coordinator has absolutely zero bearing on how they are as a head coach.

It's been explained to him multiple times anyways. He doesn't care. He's got his talking points and he's going to stick with him. He's like a politician.

[NKURyan]

(09-05-2019, 11:38 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Well, they didn't "shut down" their offense. In 3 of the last 5 games, the offense had 360+ total yards. That's above average, on a per game basis.

The Chargers were the only team that really "shut them down". 

Notice how he completely dodged this point and didn't acknowledge it at all? That's how this thread has gone.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-06-2019, 11:15 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Don't know. Don't care. How someone's offense/defense ranked as a coordinator has absolutely zero bearing on how they are as a head coach.

Except, Taylor is supposedly going to be calling our plays too...

[THE PISTONS]

(09-06-2019, 11:49 AM)NKURyan Wrote: It's been explained to him multiple times anyways. He doesn't care. He's got his talking points and he's going to stick with him. He's like a politician.

It's funny you guys are trying to defend Taylor's Dolphins stint...when he doesn't even try to defend it:

'Miami was 2-3 in games in which he called plays this season, and the team averaged only 17 points in that stretch. That wasn't good enough, he said flatly.'

Hey, maybe he does better in his next job! 

Also, you all seem to be excited at 360 total yard games under Taylor. Lazor had a 503 total yard game that year and also scored 44 and 38 points in 2 games that year. The result: He was fired.

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-06-2019, 09:20 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: You guys/girls are ASSUMING that it was Tubberville's decision to bench Kiel. ZT came in as a QB Coach from the NFL. Taylor would have been atleast consulted in that decision one would assume...if it wasn't his decision.

I'm sure they thought the new guy could learn from Taylor and thrive in his offense. He obviously didn't develop.

2015: 33.8 ppg (37rd ranked offense. The year before Taylor came.)

2016: 19.6 ppg under Taylor

But, the notion that Tubberville basically put a bad QB in on purpose for the season to fail is likely not accurate. I'm sure THEY (yes - ZT included) probably thought they could get Moore to develop an have him for a few years in Taylors offense.

Obviously that plan failed and they BOTH got fired.

I doubt Tubberville had some diabolical plan to have the 123rd ranked offense. Obviously he thought Taylor/Moore would perform better.

If you think an inexperienced OC came in and had the say in who starts over an established HC, you're just simply insane. 

No one said he put him in on purpose to fail. That's a leap you're making alone. And it's not a very logical or smart to say they thought Moore would be better when Kiel was proven. 

I was asking you why he would do such a thing, but mostly just trying to get you to see why they were bad that year.

You don't really seem too interested to know why. It's looks like you're more interested in just talking about how bad it's going to be regarless of anything anyone says or shows you. 

[THE PISTONS]

(09-06-2019, 01:50 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: If you think an inexperienced OC came in and had the say in who starts over an established HC, you're just simply insane. 

No one said he put him in on purpose to fail. That's a leap you're making alone. And it's not a very logical or smart to say they thought Moore would be better when Kiel was proven. 

I was asking you why he would do such a thing, but mostly just trying to get you to see why they were bad that year.

You don't really seem too interested to know why. It's looks like you're more interested in just talking about how bad it's going to be regarless of anything anyone says or shows you. 

So UC had a really good QB who had a highly ranked offense, then the next season they just benched him for no reason and had the 123rd ranked offense? That's what you want me to see?

And nothing ZT would do would have made things any better? Actually, they were lucky to have him or they might have had the 124th ranked offense I suppose. Or worse, 125th ranked.

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-06-2019, 09:26 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: How do you know the Bengals passing offense has improved this year? Preseason?

Yeah. Apples to apples. Last preseason with Marv to this preseason with Zac.

Passing offense was imporved. Why assume on hypotheticals when you can discuss established facts?

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-06-2019, 01:57 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So UC had a really good QB who had a highly ranked offense, then the next season they just benched him for no reason and had the 123rd ranked offense? That's what you want me to see?

And nothing ZT would do would have made things any better? Actually, they were lucky to have him or they might have had the 124th ranked offense I suppose. Or worse, 125th ranked.

Look. I'm not going to go round and round with you for several pages. If you just want to look for the negative, go ahead. 

I've already given you a plausible reason why they were bad in Zac's year there. I'm done.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-06-2019, 01:59 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Look. I'm not going to go round and round with you for several pages. If you just want to look for the negative, go ahead. 

I've already given you a plausible reason why they were bad in Zac's year there. I'm done.

They were bad, but what responsibility does a coach have in that?

I know there are some college coaches with an innovative scheme who get mediocre players to perform at higher levels.

Doesn't 123rd of 128 seem extraordinarily bad?

It's not like they were playing powerhouses. They played UConn, Tulsa, Memphis, Temple, E Carolina, etc.

Do you think Sean McVay would have had the 123rd ranked offense if he was OC there?

[Rubekahn29]

(09-06-2019, 02:05 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: They were bad, but what responsibility does a coach have in that?

I know there are some college coaches with an innovative scheme who get mediocre players to perform at higher levels.

Doesn't 123rd of 128 seem extraordinarily bad?

It's not like they were playing powerhouses. They played UConn, Tulsa, Memphis, Temple, E Carolina, etc.

Do you think Sean McVay would have had the 123rd ranked offense if he was OC there?

2014, Redskins were 4-12 and had the 26th out of 32 ranked offense. Average 18.8 points a game. You know who the OC was? Sean Mcvay.  Matter of fact, when he was OC they never won more than 9 games, and he cracked the top 10 (10) offense one time in 4 years. You would think as good of a head coach he is, you know taking his team to the superbowl, he would have have at least a top rated offense all four years if it all is on the back of the OC, right?

[THE PISTONS]

(09-06-2019, 02:21 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: 2014, Redskins were 4-12 and had the 26th out of 32 ranked offense. Average 18.8 points a game. You know who the OC was? Sean Mcvay.  Matter of fact, when he was OC they never won more than 9 games, and he cracked the top 10 (10) offense one time in 4 years. You would think as good of a head coach he is, you know taking his team to the superbowl, he would have have at least a top rated offense all four years if it all is on the back of the OC, right?

Not sure where you got your info, but McVay improved the Redskins offense each year and finished the 3rd overall offense in total yards in 2016 and 11th in points.


On January 14, 2014, McVay was promoted to offensive coordinator by new Redskins head coach Jay Gruden.[15] In his first year as offensive coordinator, he turned the team's offense into the 12th-ranked pass offense in the NFL—averaging 268.4 passing yards per game with third-year quarterback, Kirk Cousins—the 17th-ranked rush offense, with 97.9 rushing yards per game, and the 10th ranked total offense in the NFL (a year after the team's offense finished ranked 25th in total offense), averaging 24.3 points per game and 353.8 total yards per game.[16] In 2016, the passing offense ranked third best in the NFL with 297.4 yards per game, while the rushing offense ranked 20th, averaging 106.0 rushing yards per game. The 2016 offense finished 3rd overall in total yards and 11th in points, averaging 403.4 total yards per game and 24.8 points per game.[17] 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_McVay

[NKURyan]

(09-06-2019, 01:59 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Look. I'm not going to go round and round with you for several pages. If you just want to look for the negative, go ahead. 

I've already given you a plausible reason why they were bad in Zac's year there. I'm done.

Yeah, I'm with you on this one. The way he's talking it seems obvious that not only does he not know anything about UC football... he doesn't really know anything about college football in general, or at the very least football outside of the Power 5 conferences. "Well shouldn't they have just been better (even though they lost all of their top skill players from the year before)?" is all he's got with literally nothing to actually back it up that kind of assumption. It was hilariously bad at first but now I just kind of feel sorry for him.

[Rubekahn29]

(09-06-2019, 03:15 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Not sure where you got your info, but McVay improved the Redskins offense each year and finished the 3rd overall offense in total yards in 2016 and 11th in points.


On January 14, 2014, McVay was promoted to offensive coordinator by new Redskins head coach Jay Gruden.[15] In his first year as offensive coordinator, he turned the team's offense into the 12th-ranked pass offense in the NFL—averaging 268.4 passing yards per game with third-year quarterback, Kirk Cousins—the 17th-ranked rush offense, with 97.9 rushing yards per game, and the 10th ranked total offense in the NFL (a year after the team's offense finished ranked 25th in total offense), averaging 24.3 points per game and 353.8 total yards per game.[16] In 2016, the passing offense ranked third best in the NFL with 297.4 yards per game, while the rushing offense ranked 20th, averaging 106.0 rushing yards per game. The 2016 offense finished 3rd overall in total yards and 11th in points, averaging 403.4 total yards per game and 24.8 points per game.[17] 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_McVay

Pro Football Reference- and its ranked among points, which is more important than yards. 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was/2014.htm

[NKURyan]

(09-06-2019, 03:57 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Pro Football Reference- and its ranked among points, which is more important than yards. 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was/2014.htm

I was going to post that a 4-12 team finishing that low in points with that many yards just screams "garbage time", but then I remembered - why bother?

[*PhilHos*]

(09-06-2019, 01:17 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Except, Taylor is supposedly going to be calling our plays too...

OK and? You don't think it's possible for someone to learn from bad experiences? You honestly think Taylor is going to be the EXACT SAME play caller he was in Miami or UC? That he's learned nothing in the years since then? 

[THE PISTONS]

(09-06-2019, 03:50 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Yeah, I'm with you on this one. The way he's talking it seems obvious that not only does he not know anything about UC football... he doesn't really know anything about college football in general, or at the very least football outside of the Power 5 conferences. "Well shouldn't they have just been better (even though they lost all of their top skill players from the year before)?" is all he's got with literally nothing to actually back it up that kind of assumption. It was hilariously bad at first but now I just kind of feel sorry for him.

Yeah...all because I don't think having the 123rd ranked offense out of 128 in college football is bad.

And your post borders on personal attack. But, I guess that's what you do when you are on the losing side of an argument.   Because, there's no way to explain how producing the 123rd ranked offense in college football is ok.


Taylor himself said it wasn't acceptable! 

[THE PISTONS]

(09-06-2019, 04:08 PM)PhilHos Wrote: OK and? You don't think it's possible for someone to learn from bad experiences? You honestly think Taylor is going to be the EXACT SAME play caller he was in Miami or UC? That he's learned nothing in the years since then? 

Well, he was arguably worse at UC than Miami, but I'll agree with your premise that he was a bad OC and that he hopefully improves.

See we're getting somewhere!

[THE PISTONS]

(09-06-2019, 04:01 PM)NKURyan Wrote: I was going to post that a 4-12 team finishing that low in points with that many yards just screams "garbage time", but then I remembered - why bother?

Yeah...seems like McVay did considerably better than 123rd ranked offense:



On January 14, 2014, McVay was promoted to offensive coordinator by new Redskins head coach Jay Gruden.[15] In his first year as offensive coordinator, he turned the team's offense into the 12th-ranked pass offense in the NFL—averaging 268.4 passing yards per game with third-year quarterback, Kirk Cousins—the 17th-ranked rush offense, with 97.9 rushing yards per game, and the 10th ranked total offense in the NFL (a year after the team's offense finished ranked 25th in total offense), averaging 24.3 points per game and 353.8 total yards per game.[16] In 2016, the passing offense ranked third best in the NFL with 297.4 yards per game, while the rushing offense ranked 20th, averaging 106.0 rushing yards per game. The 2016 offense finished 3rd overall in total yards and 11th in points, averaging 403.4 total yards per game and 24.8 points per game.[17] 


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_McVay

[Rubekahn29]

(09-06-2019, 04:14 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah...all because I don't think having the 123rd ranked offense out of 128 in college football is bad.

And your post borders on personal attack. But, I guess that's what you do when you are on the losing side of an argument.   Because, there's no way to explain how producing the 123rd ranked offense in college football is ok.


Taylor himself said it wasn't acceptable! 

No one said it was okay, but provided the context for it. Is that so wrong? 

[J24]

(09-06-2019, 09:24 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Guys that he knows from working with them from losing organizations. We're rebuilding the Dolphins braintrust! Yay! That will pay off I'm sure.

Ex-Dolphins Coaching staff + Bengals Management = Greatness?

It really isn't that big of a deal but then Negatron is going to be Negatron.