What will our run defense look like this year?

[Bengalstripes9]

Under Marvin our run defense was poor more often than not. The Jets and Texans torched us in the playoffs. If we could just play good, fundamental run defense those were very winnable games. We got torched and under performed based on our talent level in my opinion. Marv never has been good with linebackers in Cincy, but I'm wondering if the scheme was the problem.

I saw glimpses from our first unit this preseason where they just shut down the run game. I liked what I saw against the Giants with our starting defense out there. Yeah, they passed the ball on us a little bit, but we didn't give up anything in the run game.

This is the biggest area on defense where there is potential to improve. If we can take the opponent's run game out of the equation-making our opponents one dimensional--I like our odds a lot more. Keeps our opponent in longer down and distance and puts more pressure on their pass offense to make plays (while taking pressure off our pass rush and defensive backfield.

So my question is, what do we all expect our run defense to look like this year?

With only 4 linebackers, will we see more 5 - 2 - 4 fronts on running downs? 4 - 2 - 5 with an exta safety in the box?


I love the versatility and freshness of this new scheme on defense. I like how nobody really knows what to expect yet either.

[XenoMorph]

wont know till the season starts...… I think they plan on scoring so much and being so far ahead that they wont need run defense lol

[kevin]

(09-04-2019, 10:31 AM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: Under Marvin our run defense was poor more often than not. The Jets and Texans torched us in the playoffs. If we could just play good, fundamental run defense those were very winnable games. We got torched and under performed based on our talent level in my opinion. Marv never has been good with linebackers in Cincy, but I'm wondering if the scheme was the problem.

I saw glimpses from our first unit this preseason where they just shut down the run game. I liked what I saw against the Giants with our starting defense out there. Yeah, they passed the ball on us a little bit, but we didn't give up anything in the run game.

This is the biggest area on defense where there is potential to improve. If we can take the opponent's run game out of the equation-making our opponents one dimensional--I like our odds a lot more. Keeps our opponent in longer down and distance and puts more pressure on their pass offense to make plays (while taking pressure off our pass rush and defensive backfield.

So my question is, what do we all expect our run defense to look like this year?

With only 4 linebackers, will we see more 5 - 2 - 4 fronts on running downs? 4 - 2 - 5 with an exta safety in the box?


I love the versatility and freshness of this new scheme on defense.  I like how nobody really knows what to expect yet either.

NO.  Coach Taylor says team will use 5 or more DB's 80 % of the time.   

The rule changes have teams passing.  Just look at how Mahomes and Mayfield passed at will on Bengals.  A LB can not cover a WR and it is an easy TD for the QB.   The days of 4 LBs are ancient history and Bengals will only use 3 LB's 20 % of the time.  In today's pass happy NFL and new rules,  Taylor says you need 5 or more DB's on the field 80 % of the game.   

Now this means DB's have to run tackle.  It also means you need some D Linemen to be Tweeners that can play LB if needed. 

As awful as Bengals were on D,  I'm open to change in NEW DEY.  I saw Mahomes and Mayfield beating the heck out of our LB's covering WR's. 

So under the new rules you have to stop the pass and your DB's need to be able to come up and tackle RB's & QB's. It would help if Atkins & Dunlap tackled a few RB's and QB's trying to run.

4 out of every 5 plays we will see 5 or more DB's for Bengals. Very rare will we see just 4 DB's and a front 7

[*bengalfan74*]

I believe one of the bigger flaws in our D the last several years has been lack of aggression.

You can't can't just sit back every down fingers crossed that nothing bad happens. This applies to all plays run or pass.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-04-2019, 10:50 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I believe one of the bigger flaws in our D the last several years has been lack of aggression.

You can't can't just sit back every down fingers crossed that nothing bad happens. This applies to all plays run or pass.

It will be interesting to see how that plays out because generally the more aggressive a defense is, the more big plays it gives up too...but it creates more.

I agree though. We played a weak zone a decent amount of times and good QB's shred that.

[Bengalstripes9]

I think part of the reason our run defense has been so terrible at times under Marv is that our focus is always stopping the pass. We get caught trying to rush the pass and then get killed in the run game.
The way the rules favor passing offense, I think it's really hard to stop the pass. I still think you have to stop the run game first. I think if you stop the run game, it makes it easier to stop the pass. I don't think this is a rule of thumb that has changed with the new rules. We see it happen to us all the time. We can't run the ball, it puts more pressure on our pass protection and passing game, we get one dimensional, we lose.

I get that we need to stop the pass, and I think we are built to stop the pass based on the players Marv developed and drafted. Great pass rush, lots of cover corners. However, if we don't stop the run we are in for a long year. If we do stop the run we will see the opponents fall behind in the down and distance and we will see our pass defense tee off.

So, again, my question is how do you see us lining up on run downs. Do you expect our scheme to be better than Marv's was at stopping the run?

[*bengalfan74*]

(09-04-2019, 11:04 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It will be interesting to see how that plays out because generally the more aggressive a defense is, the more big plays it gives up too...but it creates more.

I agree though. We played a weak zone a decent amount of times and good QB's shred that.

No doubt you will get burned from time to time playing aggressive. But I'd 10X rather go down swinging instead of standing there with the bat on my shoulder !

Granted you have to temper your aggression and use it wisely. But you can't just stay laid back all the time. Make them adjust and guess some to.

[kevin]

5 or more DB's on 80 % of the D plays. That is the D Coach Taylor talking since he was hired.

I don't know what more aggressive means. I'm sure Coach Taylor wants them going all out every play.

5 or more DB's on 80 % of the D plays. You can take that to the bank because Coach Taylor said it, not me.

All these DB's. I think the idea is to cover all these receivers. The DB's are just going to have to be able to tackle RB's and QB's when they run. You can no longer have a LB on a WR in the NFL, the QB's eat that up all day.

[*bengalfan74*]

(09-04-2019, 11:37 AM)kevin Wrote: 5 or more DB's on 80 % of the D plays.  That is the D Coach Taylor talking since he was hired.

I don't know what more aggressive means. I'm sure Coach Taylor wants them going all out every play.

5 or more DB's on 80 % of the D plays. You can take that to the bank because Coach Taylor said it, not me.  

All these DB's. I think the idea is to cover all these receivers. The DB's are just going to have to be able to tackle RB's and QB's when they run. You can no longer have a LB on a WR in the NFL, the QB's eat that up all day.

I'll fill you in.

Not playing soft zone defense all the time. More man to man, bump and run, tight coverage in the secondary.

Blitzing more. We've had some of the lowest blitz numbers in the NFL lately.

Stunting D linemen and LBers run blitzing off that. 

Sending CB's and S's off the edge on blitzes from time to time. Stop just sitting and waiting on whatever they dish out. 

It has nothing to do with effort on a given play or game. 

Got it ?

[SadFaceBengal15]

in this division i expect to be ran all over up n down the field due to our horrid situation at linebacker.

[kevin]

(09-04-2019, 11:53 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I'll fill you in.

Not playing soft zone defense all the time. More man to man, bump and run, tight coverage in the secondary.

Blitzing more. We've had some of the lowest blitz numbers in the NFL lately.

Stunting D linemen and LBers run blitzing off that. 

Sending CB's and S's off the edge on blitzes from time to time. Stop just sitting and waiting on whatever they dish out. 

It has nothing to do with effort on a given play or game. 

Got it ?

Well I never heard Coach Taylor saying any of that. He did come in saying 5 or more DB's on the field 80 % of the time.  Got it ? 

[*bengalfan74*]

(09-04-2019, 11:57 AM)kevin Wrote: Well I never heard Coach Taylor saying any of that. He did come in saying 5 or more DB's on the field 80 % of the time.  Got it ? 

And I'm not saying anybody said anything of what I'm saying. I'm answering a question of how I think they can improve the defense, run D included.

Stop playing so soft, reactionary, defense all the time, 90% 

[lone bengal]

Nice post, fixing the defense starts with stopping the run. If you can’t stop the run your in trouble. We gotta stop guys like James Conner, Mark Ingram and Nick Chubb in our division. I think a heathy Preston Brown along with Billings continuing to get better will make our run defense better. I also think the return of Ryan Glasgow is big he plays the run well. We also have a ton of depth on the DL and should be able to have a good rotation to keep guys fresh.

[Luvnit2]

The plan to keep only 4 LB's showed ZT is committed to stop the pass by using more weird formations versus a 4-3 we used under ML.

If they are going to use only 2 LB's, then the players on the field better be very smart and read formations of other teams well. They will need to design run blitz's using DB's and safeties. If they just try and run a 5-2 front and od nothing creative out of it, my guess is we give up a ton of huge running plays and over 150 yards a game versus the goal of giving up less than 75 yards rushing (should be).

I am concerned also as Geno hae been a part of the run defenses in the past, he penetrates and is a very good rusher, but I think he is average at best holding down the middle against the run.

[Au165]

(09-04-2019, 11:53 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I'll fill you in.

Not playing soft zone defense all the time. More man to man, bump and run, tight coverage in the secondary.

Blitzing more. We've had some of the lowest blitz numbers in the NFL lately.

Stunting D linemen and LBers run blitzing off that. 

Sending CB's and S's off the edge on blitzes from time to time. Stop just sitting and waiting on whatever they dish out. 

It has nothing to do with effort on a given play or game. 

Got it ?

"soft zone" in the biggest cliche that gets posted here. It's an ignorant statement. It acts as if teams in the NFL don't pattern match but instead stand around covering grass. Zone gives players the ability to play with their eyes on the QB and make breaks on balls. Heck, Wade Phillips match up zone defense has been used by multiple super bowl teams in the last 5 or 6 years.

We blitzed 22nd most of any team in the NFL last year, and when we did we were the 32nd rated team in getting pressure doing it. It wasn't a matter of being "soft" it's matter of being ineffective and when you are ineffective and leave your defense on islands you get torched as we did. With that said the Bears, Chargers, Eagles, Rams, Colts all blitzed LESS then us last year and were much better defenses. Apparently being "Soft" works for them.

I get this is a message board for fans, but the amount of things that get thrown out around here that have little to no base in actual football reality is mind boggling at times.

[Luvnit2]

(09-04-2019, 12:23 PM)Au165 Wrote:
"soft zone" in the biggest cliche that gets posted here. It's an ignorant statement. It acts as if teams in the NFL don't pattern match but instead stand around covering grass. Zone gives players the ability to play with their eyes on the QB and make breaks on balls. Heck, Wade Phillips match up zone defense has been used by multiple super bowl teams in the last 5 or 6 years.

We blitzed 22nd most of any team in the NFL last year, and when we did we were the 32nd rated team in getting pressure doing it. It wasn't a matter of being "soft" it's matter of being ineffective and when you are ineffective and leave your defense on islands you get torched as we did. With that said the Bears, Chargers, Eagles, Rams, Colts all blitzed LESS then us last year and were much better defenses. Apparently being "Soft" works for them.

I get this is a message board for fans, but the amount of things that get thrown out around here that have little to no base in actual football reality is mind boggling at times.

Is it smarty pants?

Regardless of man or zone, coaches teach different techniques. Some are aggressive , some in the middle and some softer. The Ravens and Steelers for example are aggressive and cover tightly or time it to smash a receiver immediately on first touch.

We seem to be 2 yards late and player softer allowing runs after the catch opportunities in the middle of the field, because we play soft in the middle of the field.

[Au165]

(09-04-2019, 12:35 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Is it smarty pants?

Regardless of man or zone, coaches teach different techniques. Some are aggressive , some in the middle and some softer. The Ravens and Steelers for example are aggressive and cover tightly or time it to smash a receiver immediately on first touch.

We seem to be 2 yards late and player softer allowing runs after the catch opportunities in the middle of the field, because we play soft in the middle of the field.

This whole post is a big bag of Nope. I'd be more than willing to explain a specific zone coverage to you if you have questions, but trying to explain defense as a whole is not really something I am interested in doing in this post.

[J24]

(09-04-2019, 12:23 PM)Au165 Wrote: "soft zone" in the biggest cliche that gets posted here. It's an ignorant statement. It acts as if teams in the NFL don't pattern match but instead stand around covering grass. Zone gives players the ability to play with their eyes on the QB and make breaks on balls. Heck, Wade Phillips match up zone defense has been used by multiple super bowl teams in the last 5 or 6 years.

We blitzed 22nd most of any team in the NFL last year, and when we did we were the 32nd rated team in getting pressure doing it. It wasn't a matter of being "soft" it's matter of being ineffective and when you are ineffective and leave your defense on islands you get torched as we did. With that said the Bears, Chargers, Eagles, Rams, Colts all blitzed LESS then us last year and were much better defenses. Apparently being "Soft" works for them.

I get this is a message board for fans, but the amount of things that get thrown out around here that have little to no base in actual football reality is mind boggling at times.

Agreed Blitzing is overrated if you have to Blitz to get pressure on a constant basis then you are screwed.
People think man coverage is better because it's simultaneously connected with press but it's not true. Most successful Defenses actually press+zone. I think that's why you see a lot of teams playing in Bunch formations on offense now to combat the press.

[Au165]

(09-04-2019, 01:08 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Agreed Blitzing is overrated if you have to Blitz to get pressure on a constant basis then you are screwed.
People think man coverage is better because it's simultaneously connected with press but it's not true. Most successful Defenses actually press+zone. I think that's why you see a lot of teams playing in Bunch formations on offense now to combat the press.

Which has accelerated the use of Banjo coverage over the last decade.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-04-2019, 10:31 AM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: Under Marvin our run defense was poor more often than not. The Jets and Texans torched us in the playoffs. If we could just play good, fundamental run defense those were very winnable games. We got torched and under performed based on our talent level in my opinion. Marv never has been good with linebackers in Cincy, but I'm wondering if the scheme was the problem.

I saw glimpses from our first unit this preseason where they just shut down the run game. I liked what I saw against the Giants with our starting defense out there. Yeah, they passed the ball on us a little bit, but we didn't give up anything in the run game.

This is the biggest area on defense where there is potential to improve. If we can take the opponent's run game out of the equation-making our opponents one dimensional--I like our odds a lot more. Keeps our opponent in longer down and distance and puts more pressure on their pass offense to make plays (while taking pressure off our pass rush and defensive backfield.

So my question is, what do we all expect our run defense to look like this year?

With only 4 linebackers, will we see more 5 - 2 - 4 fronts on running downs? 4 - 2 - 5 with an exta safety in the box?


I love the versatility and freshness of this new scheme on defense.  I like how nobody really knows what to expect yet either.

It is a good question and a great thread Bengalstripes18. I think Billings will be big in this area, he hasn't been as 
good as I thought he would be up to this point cause of that injury, really slowed his progress down. But this should
be the year he comes along. Glasgow is a good run stopper too, same with Dunlap and Hubbard looks bigger and 
should be an upgrade over a washed up MJ. Preston and Pratt are good run stoppers and Vigil and Evans have seemed 
to improved. Of course Geno is pretty decent too, Jordan Willis has always been pretty good at stopping the run.

Think we will be pretty good, just have to shut down those drops offs that killed us last year.

Hope Lou has an aggressive style and plays more man with the Corners too.