Things I learned from watching the Thursday night NFL season opener

[Luvnit2]

(09-06-2019, 10:58 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: I learned the Packers used free agency to improve their defense.  And it worked.  Free agency who knew it would help a team out.

Yep, they also let some vets go in FA like Mathews

So after one game, they look like had a great offseason as also great draft (rookie safety is very good)

[*Nately120*]

(09-06-2019, 10:12 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: If Andy Dalton had been drafted by the Houston Texans or the Dallas Cowboys the sports media would be lavishing praise on him.  However, he’s a Bengal...

Oy, the fact that a relatively new expansion franchise that is 32 games under .500 and has only 3 wild card weekend wins to it's credit is held in such higher esteem than us is quite telling.

Poor Dalton, if only he were drafted by a losing expansion franchise that currently has Bill O'Brien pulling Hue Jackson-level GM blunders...THEN he'd get the credit he deserves!

[Au165]

PFF gave Trubisky a 63 grade last year good for 30th in the league (Dalton was 12th by the way). People will say, "but PFF isn't always good!" and to that I say neither are stats. For example, last night Trubisky made the throw below and it shows up as an incompletion in the stat books but that was simply an interception that the corner got to excited to catch since it hit him in the face.

Good example of a terrible throw that SHOULD have been picked, but the CB dropped it.

Stats won't account for that, @PFF grade will. pic.twitter.com/IT1lQHPxTM

— Sam Monson (@PFF_Sam) September 6, 2019

 

Mitch Trubisky is not a good QB, the Packers knew that which is why Tramon Williams said they knew they'd win...if they made Mitch Trubisky play QB. The Bears taking Trubisky over Mahomes and Watson will definitely haunt Chicago fans for a while.

[*Nately120*]

(09-06-2019, 11:09 AM)Au165 Wrote:  The Bears taking Trubisky over Mahomes and Watson will definitely haunt Chicago fans for a while.

Trubisky and John Ross could probably have a few drinks and gripe about this.

[jj22]

(09-06-2019, 10:54 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: What I’ll tell you is that Fitzpatrick only started 7 games last year so it’s a stupid ***** comparison.

You compared the passer rating for a qb who started 16 to a Qb who started 9 so.........

I'm not sure games started is your best argument in defense of your point here.

[*Nately120*]

(09-06-2019, 11:17 AM)jj22 Wrote: You compared the passer rating for a qb who started 16 to a Qb who started 9 so.........

I'm not sure games started is your best argument in defense of your point here.

Are you saying Mohammad Sanu isn't the best QB the Bengals ever had?  Ok, even by joke standards this one is a bit much.

[Luvnit2]

(09-06-2019, 10:54 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: What I’ll tell you is that Fitzpatrick only started 7 games last year so it’s a stupid ***** comparison.

But your comparison with Trubisky versus Dalton 1 year is not stupid. Dalton played only 9 games in 2018.

I think you dropped the ball on this one in your rush to bash AD and prop up the 1st round pick over him

[*Nately120*]

(09-06-2019, 11:23 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: But your comparison with Trubisky versus Dalton 1 year is not stupid. Dalton played only 9 games in 2018.

I think you dropped the ball on this one in your rush to bash AD and prop up the 1st round pick over him

Dalton's 89.6 in 2018 is pretty comparable to his entire body of work, though.  If it were skewed high or low I could see taking more issue with it as a point of comparison.  Actually, that rating is the 3rd highest of his 8 years in the NFL behind the 2015 season's 106.2 (13 games) and slightly behind 2016's 91.8.

I don't see using the 2018 numbers as too much of a stretch, but I'm also playing devil's advocate here.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-06-2019, 11:17 AM)jj22 Wrote: You compared the passer rating for a qb who started 16 to a Qb who started 9 so.........

I'm not sure games started is your best argument in defense of your point here.

Wrong on both.

Dalton started 11 games. Trubisky started 14.

This board cracks me up. We’re hoping and praying the right coaching staff can finally get our 9th year QB over the hump, but we’re ready to write off a kid whose starting his 2nd full season in the NFL...

[jj22]

(09-06-2019, 11:21 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Are you saying Mohammad Sanu isn't the best QB the Bengals ever had?  Ok, even by joke standards this one is a bit much.

You'll have to take that up with him since he brought up games started.

[jj22]

(09-06-2019, 11:29 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Wrong on both.

Dalton started 11 games. Trubisky started 14.

This board cracks me up. We’re hoping and praying the right coaching staff can finally get our 9th year QB over the hump, but we’re ready to write off a kid whose starting his 2nd full season in the NFL...

So your fine with bringing up games started? I'm confused. Only you seem to have issue with those who don't compare equal games started. No one else mentioned it.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-06-2019, 11:23 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: But your comparison with Trubisky versus Dalton 1 year is not stupid. Dalton played only 9 games in 2018.

I think you dropped the ball on this one in your rush to bash AD and prop up the 1st round pick over him

Where are you guys getting 9 games from? Dalton was injured in week 12 against the Browns. He stated 11 games.

[*Nately120*]

(09-06-2019, 11:29 AM)jj22 Wrote: You'll have to take that up with him since he brought up games started.

I'm just pointing out that if you go by the last time Dalton played a full season (or 14+ games as Trubusky did in 2018) then Dalton's rating goes down 3 points and makes the gap wider. If his agenda is to make Trubisky's 95 rating look better than Dalton's then he accidentally did Dalton a favor by using his injury shortened 2018 rather than his full season of 2017.

Hell, if we REALLY want to push it we can say only 14+ game seasons are comparable and throw Dalton's stat-skewing 2015 13 game season out the door, too. Lordy.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-06-2019, 11:32 AM)jj22 Wrote: So your fine with bringing up games started? I'm confused. Only you seem to have issue with those who don't compare equal games started. No one else mentioned it.

I have absolutely no idea what you’re arguing here...

I said bringing up Fitzpatrick was stupid because he didn’t even start over half the games. 11 games is obviously not a full season either, but it’s a much bigger sample. And I highly doubt Dalton’s numbers would have been much better had he finished the season anyway considering he was without AJ, Eifert, etc.

[jj22]

(09-06-2019, 11:33 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm just pointing out that if you go by the last time Dalton played a full season (or 14+ games as Trubusky did in 2018) then Dalton's rating goes down 3 points and makes the gap wider.  If his agenda is to make Trubisky's 95 rating look better than Dalton's then he accidentally did Dalton a favor by using his injury shortened 2018 rather than his full season of 2017.

I'm not arguing anything. I don't care that Dalton is hated here, it doesn't change my opinion on him.

I'm just wondering why he got so upset about comparing two players who didn't start an equal number of games. He actually got so defensive he said it was *#*#*#.

He brought this into the discussion. No one else did. I think he has to explain why it's okay when speaking on Dalton/Mitch and why it's not when speaking on Brady/Fitz.

[Au165]

(09-06-2019, 11:33 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm just pointing out that if you go by the last time Dalton played a full season (or 14+ games as Trubusky did in 2018) then Dalton's rating goes down 3 points and makes the gap wider.  If his agenda is to make Trubisky's 95 rating look better than Dalton's then he accidentally did Dalton a favor by using his injury shortened 2018 rather than his full season of 2017.

Hell, if we REALLY want to push it we can say only 14+ game seasons are comparable and throw Dalton's stat-skewing 2015 13 game season out the door, too.  Lordy.

...Or you can look at the PFF grades which look beyond the stat lines and actual game footage you will see Trubisky is one of the worst QB's in the league. He is a HB that can sometimes throw if guys are wide open.

[jj22]

(09-06-2019, 11:37 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I said bringing up Fitzpatrick was stupid because he didn’t even start over half the games.

You did not. You said 7 games. Nothing about half seasons vs full seasons, or over 50% of games started or any of this new spin.

But I won't consider it new spin (moving goal post) if you are trying to explain your initial statement. Which I think you had to do since you made such a big deal about the number of games started.

[*Nately120*]

(09-06-2019, 11:37 AM)jj22 Wrote: I'm not arguing anything. I don't care that Dalton is hated here, it doesn't change my opinion on him.

I'm just wondering why he got so upset about comparing two players who didn't start an equal number of games. He actually got so defensive he said it was *#*#*#.

He brought this into the discussion. No one else did. I think he has to explain why it's okay when speaking on Dalton/Mitch and why it's not when speaking on Brady/Fitz.

Where is the hate on Dalton?  Someone took issue with the notion that Trubisky is ranked higher than Dalton when Trubisky's last season 14-game rating was better than Dalton's last rating, and better than all of Dalton's season end ratings except for 2015 where he played 13 games.

That just numbers and stuff.  And if Dalton has a higher rating than Trubisky after 2019 (which looks like it could be a pretty easy task) he should should SHOULD be ranked higher than Mitch going into 2020.  Nothing to hate-ey about it, on its surface, but numbers are neutral and it's what people do with them that makes the difference.

(09-06-2019, 11:38 AM)Au165 Wrote: ...Or you can look at the PFF grades which look beyond the stat lines and actual game footage you will see Trubisky is one of the worst QB's in the league. He is a HB that can sometimes throw if guys are wide open.

Ok well that's a different argument that requires us to look at a different set of data.  I'm just talking about the rating which is what has been presented here and I haven't even said that being ranked above another guy is indicative of who is legitimately better.  I'm not dying on Trubisky hill here, I was just responding to the latest cries of the universe being unfair to Andy Dalton.  Then again, I'm a vocal critic of "The Bengal way" so don't think I don't take that stuff into consideration.

[jj22]

Again, I'm just questioning why it was fine to compare two qb's who didn't start equal games but get upset when two qb's were compared who didn't start equal games.

That's all.

I didn't do it.

[Luvnit2]

(09-06-2019, 11:38 AM)Au165 Wrote: ...Or you can look at the PFF grades which look beyond the stat lines and actual game footage you will see Trubisky is one of the worst QB's in the league. He is a HB that can sometimes throw if guys are wide open.

They will only use info that props up others while trashing AD because it does not fit their narrative. Their desire to hate AD takes over their common sense. 

This sounds very familiar as same narrative happening in politics now.