Andy loses us another big game

[jfkbengals]

(09-22-2019, 01:55 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: There's no way possible that the guy running with Eifert is able to make a play on the ball if it's thrown to Tate, 20 feet behind them. There's not a human on earth with the physical abilities to do that. 

The only way it could be more accurately placed towards Eifert, is to throw it away.

EDIT: My bad, i was looking at the wrong defender. #54 is almost standing flat footed while Tate is running away from him.

But a throw across the body will lack zip and accuracy.  That's my point.  With time to set feet square to the receiver, I agree those defenders don't have a chance.  But a throwback on the move would likely have bad results.

[Catmandude123]

(09-21-2019, 08:58 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Instead of wading through all the poo, let's take a look at a typical Dalton play. 

2nd and 5 at their own 46 with 1:20 left in the 2nd quarter, 3 timeouts left, down 21-10. 

Dalton drops back and after 2.36 seconds, breaks out to his right. There is no immediate pressure from a defender as he throws the ball. 

He releases the pass...right to a SF defender who is all over Tyler Eifert. Matter of fact, there is a defender right behind Eifert as well. 

Take a look at this pic. The red circle is Eifert and the defender and the green circle is Auden Tate. 


Clearly, Eifert is well covered and Tate is wide open. "HIS OFFENSIVE LINE BROKE DOWN...AND ANYWAY, THERE'S NO WAY HE COULD SEE TATE THERE!!!!!!", is something you might say. So, let's take a look from another angle. 



As you can see from this angle, Eifert is well covered and Tate is wide open...even though he's not capable of getting separation   and he's easily in Dalton's field of vision. 

This is just one example of how Dalton fails to make the most of an opportunity. I could probably make about 5-10 more of these on plays that happened in this game, before this point, because i've watched it several times and seen them. This is also EXACTLY what i was talking about when i made the points that different QBs make different decisions that effect the outcome and how they're perceived. Dalton was able to throw for a lot of yards in this game, but he had to throw a lot to get them and he was greatly assisted by Ross' speed at the end of the game. 

I keep seeing people say..."well...you better not replace him until you have someone better..". That's BS. If you had someone you knew was better, he'd already be starting or the coach would be out of a job. You don't wait to replace a player until you have something better, you replace a player when he's not maximizing this potential physically or with his decisions on the field. 

Sorry about the watermark. I'm not gonna pay to host my images. :)

This is the kind of play the opposing defenses what to happen with Dalton. He is atrocious when flushed from the pocket. That is why it was so disheartening to start the season with the same O-line.

[Nicomo Cosca]

*bump*

So the Dalton homers know where to put their excuses...

[zygrot24]

It's just a broken record at this point

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-22-2019, 02:04 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: But a throw across the body will lack zip and accuracy.  That's my point.  With time to set feet square to the receiver, I agree those defenders don't have a chance.  But a throwback on the move would likely have bad results.

Worse than the outcome of the actual throw he made? 

[jfkbengals]

(09-22-2019, 07:53 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Worse than the outcome of the actual throw he made? 

A good probability of the same outcome.

There are a few cardinal sins of QB play, and one of them is throwing back across your body.

[Shake n Blake]

I think it's time to move on from Andy. No, this isn't me saying I've been wrong all these years. These situations are fluid. It's just time. This looks like a 4-12 type of season. If we're in position to take a top QB prospect, we should. Not because a QB fixes everything, but because this team needs some sort of miracle if it's going to overcome the ineptitude of Mike Brown.

Andy is a good QB, not a miracle worker.

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-22-2019, 08:00 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: A good probability of the same outcome.

There are a few cardinal sins of QB play, and one of them is throwing back across your body.

Since the defender is standing still and Tate is moving, there's not much chance he makes a play. It's decent as an excuse, but it's not very realistic when you're watching the play unfold. 

[Timanky12]

(09-22-2019, 09:55 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I think it's time to move on from Andy. No, this isn't me saying I've been wrong all these years. These situations are fluid. It's just time. This looks like a 4-12 type of season. If we're in position to take a top QB prospect, we should. Not because a QB fixes everything, but because this team needs some sort of miracle if it's going to overcome the ineptitude of Mike Brown.

Andy is a good QB, not a miracle worker.

Mandy is too short to play Qb in the NFL, he constantly gets ball tipped at the line of scrimmage and couldn’t out run a snail. He panics when pressure is put on him, and refuses to step forward to avoid the rush from behind him. He must be wearing concrete shoes, because he looks like he moves in slow motion. He can’t avoid a one person rush. We need to put Finley and see what he can do.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-22-2019, 09:55 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I think it's time to move on from Andy. No, this isn't me saying I've been wrong all these years. These situations are fluid. It's just time. This looks like a 4-12 type of season. If we're in position to take a top QB prospect, we should. Not because a QB fixes everything, but because this team needs some sort of miracle if it's going to overcome the ineptitude of Mike Brown.

Andy is a good QB, not a miracle worker.

You and me both, brother.

I look forward to when we have a new QB and the same ones that call "excuses" when pointing out the OL issues or receiver issues will turn around and complain about the OL issues and receivers issues the new QB has to face.

[Big Boss]

(09-22-2019, 09:55 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I think it's time to move on from Andy. No, this isn't me saying I've been wrong all these years. These situations are fluid. It's just time. This looks like a 4-12 type of season. If we're in position to take a top QB prospect, we should. Not because a QB fixes everything, but because this team needs some sort of miracle if it's going to overcome the ineptitude of Mike Brown.

Andy is a good QB, not a miracle worker.

If you're picking top 5, you basically have to take a QB.  You don't know if you'll get that opportunity again.  As we've seen from the last several years, even winning just six games takes you out of the top 10 of the draft.  Offensive linemen and linebackers can be had in the 10-20 range. The best QB prospects, on the other hand, usually go top 10, so you'd have to give up the farm and trade up to get the guy you want.

Draft your QB now while you have the high draft pick, then you can still roll with Dalton/Finely/Dolegala for a year while you shore up the trenches with other draft picks/free agents.  And if Finley/Dolegala come out of nowhere and show they can play in games that matter, then you've got trade bait with the QB you just drafted.    

[Catmandude123]

(09-23-2019, 01:04 PM)PhilHos Wrote: You and me both, brother.

I look forward to when we have a new QB and the same ones that call "excuses" when pointing out the OL issues or receiver issues will turn around and complain about the OL issues and receivers issues the new QB has to face.

And all the Andy lovers will rejoice and feel like their loyalty to a weak QB will be justified and they can be happy again. There is no one on this or any site who says replacing Andy will give a SB win to the city and the fans but my lord we have given him nine years so at least be open minded about  change.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-23-2019, 01:15 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: And all the Andy lovers will rejoice and feel like their loyalty to a weak QB will be justified and they can be happy again. 

No doubt. Just like the Andy haters rejoice every time Andy makes a mistake.

For me, I just want to win and I don't care who's at QB as long as we're winning. I will, however, relish in pointing out the Andy haters' hypocrisy (while hoping mine isn't showing).

[Catmandude123]

(09-23-2019, 01:16 PM)PhilHos Wrote: No doubt. Just like the Andy haters rejoice every time Andy makes a mistake.

Rejoice my behind. My wife is scared I will throw something through to television. But I am sure that Andy will find someway to lose. This is why he needs to be replaced.

[*bfine32*]

(09-23-2019, 01:04 PM)PhilHos Wrote: You and me both, brother.

I look forward to when we have a new QB and the same ones that call "excuses" when pointing out the OL issues or receiver issues will turn around and complain about the OL issues and receivers issues the new QB has to face.

Why would any Bengal fan look forward to our new QB having issues with the Oline and receivers?

[*PhilHos*]

(09-23-2019, 03:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why would any Bengal fan look forward to our new QB having issues with the Oline and receivers?

Allow me to clarify as you CLEARLY didn't understand what I wrote.

I look forward to pointing out the hypocrisy of those who, when pointed out that the OL or WR may be responsible for SOME of Dalton's bad passes, call those 'excuses'. You and I both know that some of those that hate Dalton and don't give 'credit' to some of the offensive issues to others will turn around and excuse the new QB when he's affected by the same thing. Let's face it, no QB is perfect. ALL QBs are affected by poor OL or WR issues. So, the new QB is going to be affected by it. Hopefully, he does better than Dalton, but he'll still make mistakes. Those that are overly of critical of Dalton, some will excuse these things. I look forward to pointing out their hypocrisy.

Hopefully, that cleared things up for you.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-23-2019, 01:04 PM)PhilHos Wrote: You and me both, brother.

I look forward to when we have a new QB and the same ones that call "excuses" when pointing out the OL issues or receiver issues will turn around and complain about the OL issues and receivers issues the new QB has to face.

You look forward to our next QB struggling? Are you a Bengals fan or an Andy Dalton fan?

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-23-2019, 01:04 PM)PhilHos Wrote: You and me both, brother.

I look forward to when we have a new QB and the same ones that call "excuses" when pointing out the OL issues or receiver issues will turn around and complain about the OL issues and receivers issues the new QB has to face.

I can't even comprehend how you (and others, i'm sure) think that people just want Dalton out because they don't like him. As if he's not done things that clearly show he's not capable of leading this team to playoff wins and contention for a SB. 

The next 3 guys may not be any better, but they shouldn't and won't get any more leeway than Dalton has. People that really "just want to win" want a QB that can show he's able to overcome some things and win under the bright lights--at least once. They don't care about excuses, they "just want to win". This isn't a "i like Dalton and you hate him, so i can't wait till 'your guy' fails too" scenario. At least, it shouldn't be. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-23-2019, 03:13 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Rejoice my behind. My wife is scared I will throw something through to television. But I am sure that Andy will find someway to lose. This is why he needs to be replaced.

Nah. You're just a "hater" that because you want a guy behind center that can win a playoff game. 

*insert sarcasm emoji here, just in case my post isn't clear* 

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-23-2019, 03:40 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Allow me to clarify as you CLEARLY didn't understand what I wrote.

Your post was very clear.