So...was Marvin holding Ross back?

[BURROWorBUST]

Listening to his post-game interview, Ross essentially said that he was afraid of making a mistake under Marvin, afraid that he'd be benched.

A reporter asked him if he thought that he';d have been benched last year for dropping a ball like he did there in the first half. Ross replied, "definitely." According to Ross, Marvin made him lose confidence in himself. He ended up playing tight, always afraid of making a mistake, fearful that he'd be yanked.

I think ZT has removed that fear. He made a mistake one play. Next play, he scored a TD. He'd have never gotten a second chance under Marvin.

[*Nately120*]

I'm glad Ross had a good game and he certainly makes things more interesting, but I'm not sure I can blame Marvin for making players fear being benched for making bad plays, either.

We seem to have a very inconsistent view of how much we want accountability.

[GodFather]

(09-08-2019, 09:51 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Marvin is gone.

11 years too late!

[bengaloo]

Marvin wouldve definitely benched him after the drop. In fact he wouldve been benched after the first drop most likely which wouldve negated his first TD as well and potentially his entire day of production. ZT is smart enough to be patient and recognize the potential payoff if you let a guy like Ross work it out on the field and make him a real part of the game plan.

Ross missed all of training camp too. That couldve contributed to his drops. He's technically still shaking off the rust.

[Nickslycat]

(09-08-2019, 09:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is impossible to say. Ross may have just worked himself through his problems and would have flourished under Marvin this year.

And if you want to give all the credit to Zac then you lo have to give him all the blame for our running game. Mixon sure looked better when Marvin was coach.

Zac took advantage of what the defense was playing. Marvin would have continued to run into six man lines. Marvin’s team would not have been competitive. No argument, your wrong.

[Luvnit2]

(09-09-2019, 08:46 AM)bengaloo Wrote: Marvin wouldve definitely benched him after the drop. In fact he wouldve been benched after the first drop most likely which wouldve negated his first TD as well and potentially his entire day of production. ZT is smart enough to be patient and recognize the potential payoff if you let a guy like Ross work it out on the field and make him a real part of the game plan.

Ross missed all of training camp too. That couldve contributed to his drops. He's technically still shaking off the rust.

Truth be known, 95% of our fans wanted him benched after his first drop today. 

The other 5% like me played him in fantasy and were praying he wasn't benched.

I have never seen so many fans attack a player who is in year 3 and had 7 TD's in year 2 after injury riddled rookie year.

We saw a play maker yesterday, a threat and hopeful this is the John Ross of the future. He made mistakes, but he overcame them and showed us he can ball.

[grampahol]

(09-08-2019, 09:51 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Marvin is gone.

Are you trying to tell us it's too late to pile on Marvin? Let's look into the future, someday when our grandkids are all old grizzled veterans of Bengals football..It'll NEVER be too late to complain about Marvin! Someday long after Jake Dolagala puts on his yellow blazer at the HOF seniors ceremony there will be a soft spot for Marvin.. 

[Sled21]

I've been really hard on Ross, while not a hater, because he drives me crazy. He has so much talent and hasn't been able to harness it. I don't blame Lewis for benching him. Ross is trying to change the narrative, but if you remember, he wasn't benched because he dropped a pass, he was benched because he could not learn his position. He admitted as much. But, the past is the past, and hopefully Taylor can get him rolling. Last night was a good night for him, but in truth, if the safety had made a better play on Ross' long touchdown pass, it would have been an interception.

[grampahol]

(09-09-2019, 10:16 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I've been really hard on Ross, while not a hater, because he drives me crazy. He has so much talent and hasn't been able to harness it. I don't blame Lewis for benching him. Ross is trying to change the narrative, but if you remember, he wasn't benched because he dropped a pass, he was benched because he could not learn his position. He admitted as much. But, the past is the past, and hopefully Taylor can get him rolling. Last night was a good night for him, but in truth, if the safety had made a better play on Ross' long touchdown pass, it would have been an interception.

You obviously are not a real Bengals fan by almost giving credit to the other side. Nope.. a REAL Bengals fan would just blame Andy for almost throwing an INT..

[*ochocincos*]

I will say this...
After the first drop or two, Marvin likely would have benched Ross. If that had happened with Taylor, Ross wouldn't have gone off like he did.

John Ross is now 52 yards and 5 TDs away from last year's total...with 15 games left to play.
If Ross only gets 40 yards per game average and a TD every 3rd game, he'll have 750+ yards and 7 TDs by the end of the year.
If he produces even half of what he did yesterday but for every game, he'll have 1300+ yards.

With that said, Ross deserves criticism for his drops yesterday, especially the wide open one. He even admitted it in an interview after the game saying he was overthinking by planning his run before catching the ball and that he needs to quit doing that.

If Ross can reduce the drops, there's a good chance he'll be electric. Even if he continues the drops, he'll still be really exciting but frustrating at times too.

[fredtoast]

(09-09-2019, 08:29 AM)Nately120 Wrote: We seem to have a very inconsistent view of how much we want accountability.

This. Fans squeal abour Marvin not holding players accountable then they squeal about Marvin holding players accountable. 

Last year Ross played over 90% of the snaps in every games over the last half of last season. Marvin let Ross play even when he messed up in those games.

[McC]

(09-09-2019, 10:16 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I've been really hard on Ross, while not a hater, because he drives me crazy. He has so much talent and hasn't been able to harness it. I don't blame Lewis for benching him. Ross is trying to change the narrative, but if you remember, he wasn't benched because he dropped a pass, he was benched because he could not learn his position. He admitted as much. But, the past is the past, and hopefully Taylor can get him rolling. Last night was a good night for him, but in truth, if the safety had made a better play on Ross' long touchdown pass, it would have been an interception.

I don't think that's true.  The S got back as far as he could and jumped for it but the ball was over his head.  Sometimes a great play is a great play that doesn't have an if only attached to it.  And there's no way an interception can ever be assumed.

[*Nately120*]

(09-09-2019, 11:39 AM)fredtoast Wrote: This. Fans squeal abour Marvin not holding players accountable then they squeal about Marvin holding players accountable. 

Last year Ross played over 90% of the snaps in every games over the last half of last season. Marvin let Ross play even when he messed up in those games.

Ross played last year and Andy Dalton didn't look his way, so I was ok with it.  That's the big difference...Dalton is throwing him the ball now, unelss the idea is Marvin played Ross and told Dalton NOT to throw him the ball.

[BengalChris]

(09-08-2019, 09:40 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: All it took was 1 game without Marvin - with an offensive minded HC - for Ross and Dalton to have career days. Does anyone on here still question the impact of coaching and schemes? Sure, we've got a long ways to go, but that was a pretty incredible start. Ross looked like the guy we thought we were drafting. Dalton could be headed for a career year. Amazing that they did this against a top defense on the road, with no AJ Green and no run game.

The play calling and designs seemed more innovative and caught Seattle off guard. Ross played better than he ever has for us, by miles. 7 catches on 12 targets, instead of 1 catch on 4 targets, which we saw a lot of before. He seemed to be looking back for the ball much better.

One good game doesn't make a career, but it's a pleasant change from the bumbling we've seen.

Many long throws to Ross, which people seemed to complain about before, but that didn't seem to be the problem.

 

[THE PISTONS]

(09-09-2019, 12:22 PM)BengalChris Wrote: The play calling and designs seemed more innovative and caught Seattle off guard. Ross played better than he ever has for us, by miles. 7 catches on 12 targets, instead of 1 catch on 4 targets, which we saw a lot of before. He seemed to be looking back for the ball much better.

One good game doesn't make a career, but it's a pleasant change from the bumbling we've seen.

Many long throws to Ross, which people seemed to complain about before, but that didn't seem to be the problem.

 

Interestingly, we beat 2 playoff teams in the Colts and Ravens last year 34-23. Both of those teams were playoff teams.

I'm doubting there was too much complaining on the board then.

But this 1 point loss is drawing probably more praise.

Interesting how circumstance changes can make a difference.

[BengalChris]

(09-09-2019, 12:26 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Interestingly, we beat 2 playoff teams in the Colts and Ravens last year 34-23. Both of those teams were playoff teams.

I'm doubting there was too much complaining on the board then.

But this 1 point loss is drawing probably more praise.

Interesting how circumstance changes can make a difference.

Yeah, there's a lot to criticize about yesterday's game. The running game being at the top of the list. Big plays excite fans, but being able to convert a 4-1 can be the difference in a win or loss. Being able to run the clock down with the lead give your defense a breather is important. Practicing with wet balls should be part of a normal practice week, you'd think.

[sandwedge]

(09-09-2019, 12:26 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Interestingly, we beat 2 playoff teams in the Colts and Ravens last year 34-23. Both of those teams were playoff teams.

I'm doubting there was too much complaining on the board then.

But this 1 point loss is drawing probably more praise.

Interesting how circumstance changes can make a difference.

I think that has to do with us winning those games. I think in game 3 against, the true stinkage of our D came to full fruition. When the injuries started to decimate our offense, we couldn't score enough to overcome Austin and his BS.
It was just that yesterday we saw a defense that was light years better than before and an offense still clicking without a couple of starters. 

[THE PISTONS]

This was a John Ross quote from after the game:

(On if he would have been on the bench after dropping a pass last year…) “Most definitely. I can honestly say that now. I would lose confidence in myself. It’s completely different now, in my opinion.”

[McC]

(09-09-2019, 12:41 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: This was a John Ross quote from after the game:

(On if he would have been on the bench after dropping a pass last year…) “Most definitely. I can honestly say that now. I would lose confidence in myself. It’s completely different now, in my opinion.”

All he ever needed was the love.  

[BengalsRocker]

(09-09-2019, 12:41 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: This was a John Ross quote from after the game:

(On if he would have been on the bench after dropping a pass last year…) “Most definitely. I can honestly say that now. I would lose confidence in myself. It’s completely different now, in my opinion.”

Remember this nugget?  It seems with Ross being a key piece in the gameplan this past Sunday it forced Andy to rely and trust John Ross.  This truly could be a turning point in JR's career.  Dalton had a career day even with Ross's hiccups.  It was a learning experience for both.  Perhaps ZT really truly knows what he's doing.  Let's all hope!!


“John had a play last week we weren’t very thrilled with,” Lewis began.

The play in question came on third-and-5 early in the second quarter. Ross ended up one-on-one running deep down the sideline and slowed down running when he thought Dalton wasn’t going to throw him the ball. Dalton did and it fell incomplete.
Ross admitted the error on the play and also the disappointment in not hardly at all after that.
“It’s like you being a kid and you go the whole year being good and you mess up that one time and now you get nothing for Christmas,” he said.
Lewis embraced the role of Grinch in the presser as he went deeper into Ross’ progress and the rookie not running the full play on Sunday because he didn’t think the ball would come to him in that coverage.
“The thing I told him and it was great because Andy was with him in the hall on Tuesday,” Lewis said. “For Andy, against that coverage to throw him that football, he should understand how the quarterback feels about him. That he expects him to be where he needs to be. He let his teammates down. He let me down. He let Andy down."
[url=https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2017/11/15/bengals-walkthru-jeremy-hill-and-business-decisions/865997001/][/url]
Lewis has scoffed at the constant progress questions thrown his way over the course of the last month as Ross returned to practice for the first time consistently since being drafted.
This served as an example of the growing pains associated with a player without many professional snaps. Still, Lewis doesn’t typically air qualms with players in the media, but this was clear as that pass was an incompletion.
“Maybe that ball is not supposed to go there in that coverage, but if you do it right and run like you can run that ball can go there and it can be a big play for us,” Lewis said of his conversation with Ross. “The receiver can’t dictate where the ball goes. The quarterback has to make the read and do what he does and throw the ball based on the coverage and his progression. In that case, he chose John. Made a nice throw and put the ball where it needed to be and it ended up from you to me away. Had he been running, likely he catches it.”
In a game where the Bengals punted on that drive and lost the game in the final seconds, a Ross catch there might have been the big play the Bengals needed.
“I would hope it would be a touchdown, but that’s the margin of error we are right now,” Lewis said. “We are a little thin on that.”