So...was Marvin holding Ross back?

[SadFaceBengal15]

can we stop talking about Marvin god damn lewis. its like annoyed ex whos not over their ex. move the hell on

[SunsetBengal]

(09-08-2019, 09:40 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: All it took was 1 game without Marvin - with an offensive minded HC - for Ross and Dalton to have career days. Does anyone on here still question the impact of coaching and schemes? Sure, we've got a long ways to go, but that was a pretty incredible start. Ross looked like the guy we thought we were drafting. Dalton could be headed for a career year. Amazing that they did this against a top defense on the road, with no AJ Green and no run game.

I completely agree.  As I mentioned in another thread, all it took for Coach Taylor to have Ross looking like Brandin Cooks out there, was one game.  

For all of those that have previously stated that coaches don't matter as much as the players do?  I'll continue to differ.  Coaching matters.

[BengalsRocker]

(09-09-2019, 09:18 PM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: can we stop talking about Marvin god damn lewis.  its like annoyed ex whos not over their ex.  move the hell on

Well, it was prompted in reference to a media asked question to John Ross about Marvin so...

[JSR18]

In a word: 100flippin%...

[SadFaceBengal15]

(09-09-2019, 09:45 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Well, it was prompted in reference to a media asked question to John Ross about Marvin so...

"well shes a guy so"- all u children reference marvin anyway u can.  and love the topics that bring him back up.  move on already.  Hes gone soooooooooo it doesnt matter anymore.

[McC]

(09-09-2019, 09:18 PM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: can we stop talking about Marvin god damn lewis.  its like annoyed ex whos not over their ex.  move the hell on

It'll end soon enough.  It's not like it's been years.

[BigPapaKain]

Look, I haven't had faith in this team since that debacle in the playoffs. Hell, I haven't had fun watching them since then. Sunday felt good. Even with the L.

[*Nately120*]

(09-09-2019, 10:36 PM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: "well shes a guy so"- all u children reference marvin anyway u can.  and love the topics that bring him back up.  move on already.  Hes gone soooooooooo it doesnt matter anymore.

You can tell how sick we were of Marvin when all ZT had to do was go 0-1 to confirm how much better we have it now that he's gone.

(09-09-2019, 11:48 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Look, I haven't had faith in this team since that debacle in the playoffs. Hell, I haven't had fun watching them since then. Sunday felt good. Even with the L.

That pretty much sums it up.  Hell, I don't disagree. But as Fred pointed out on page 1 I think, by looking at this game you can conclude that ZT is holding Mixon and the run game down just as much as he is liberating Ross.

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-09-2019, 08:29 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm glad Ross had a good game and he certainly makes things more interesting, but I'm not sure I can blame Marvin for making players fear being benched for making bad plays, either.

We seem to have a very inconsistent view of how much we want accountability.

It's not hard to see that Ross is a bit weak, mentally. Since i don't know him, i have no idea where it comes from but he pretty much needs constant positive reinforcement, at least right now. 

Hopefully, after a few good games, he gets his head straight and puts all that stuff behind him. 

[*Nately120*]

(09-09-2019, 11:54 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: It's not hard to see that Ross is a big weak, mentally. Since i don't know him, i have no idea where it comes from but he pretty much needs constant positive reinforcement, at least right now. 

Hopefully, after a few good games, he gets his head straight and puts all that stuff behind him. 

I thought the sports cliche was that no one believing in you inspired winners to work harder in order to prove everyone wrong...or something.

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-09-2019, 11:39 AM)fredtoast Wrote: This. Fans squeal abour Marvin not holding players accountable then they squeal about Marvin holding players accountable. 

Stinkin' thinkin'. 

Those two things are not mutually exclusive. ChadochocincoJohnson pulled all kinds of stunts that, i'm sure, Marv didn't like but he was out there every game, all game because he put up numbers. Same with Burfict and Pacman. 

John Ross may or may not have been a Marv pick, but he was benched after his first touch/fumble. Could be for a number of reasons, right or wrong. But he didn't produce so he was kept on the bench despite his supposed athletic talents. 

See now how Marv (and any other coach) can have a double standard in how they "hold players accountable"?

[GreenCornBengal]

(09-09-2019, 09:18 PM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: can we stop talking about Marvin god damn lewis.  its like annoyed ex whos not over their ex.  move the hell on

Dude, Marvin was the coach since my first year of being a fan. Why WOULDN'T we (especially I) compare the new coach to him? It's human nature to compare the two!

Why are you so salty about us talking about Marvin Lewis anyways?

[*Nately120*]

(09-10-2019, 12:03 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Stinkin' thinkin'. 

Those two things are not mutually exclusive. ChadochocincoJohnson pulled all kinds of stunts that, i'm sure, Marv didn't like but he was out there every game, all game because he put up numbers. Same with Burfict and Pacman. 

John Ross may or may not have been a Marv pick, but he was benched after his first touch/fumble. Could be for a number of reasons, right or wrong. But he didn't produce so he was kept on the bench despite his supposed athletic talents. 

See now how Marv (and any other coach) can have a double standard in how they "hold players accountable"?

Ross himself said he reacted to criticism or being put on the sideline by getting upset and losing confidence in himself.  I don't think Chad, Pacman and/or Burfict ever admitted to responding to criticism that way.  

My take on Ross is less about Marvin and ZT and more about how Dalton approaches him.  Ross was on the field last year, quite a lot actually, and Dalton didn't target him very often.  Dalton seems to be targeting him a lot more so far in 2019 so I trust Dalton to make these decisions more than I'm going to come up with reasons why Marvin would put Ross on the field and not let Dalton throw it to him.

[GreenCornBengal]

(09-10-2019, 12:08 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Ross himself said he reacted to criticism or being put on the sideline by getting upset and losing confidence in himself.  I don't think Chad, Pacman and/or Burfict ever admitted to responding to criticism that way.  

My take on Ross is less about Marvin and ZT and more about how Dalton approaches him.  Ross was on the field last year, quite a lot actually, and Dalton didn't target him very often.  Dalton seems to be targeting him a lot more so far in 2019 so I trust Dalton to make these decisions more than I'm going to come up with reasons why Marvin would put Ross on the field and not let Dalton throw it to him.

Have to remember that AJ wasn't out there. IMO Ross had at least 5 more targets because of this. He did great with the opportunity, but if he gets fewer targets, and has a few drops, he is Ross the bust again in our fans eyes.

AJ being hurt might end up being a blessing for Ross' confidence. Hope we get AJ back ASAP tho!

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-09-2019, 11:49 PM)Nately120 Wrote: You can tell how sick we were of Marvin when all ZT had to do was go 0-1 to confirm how much better we have it now that he's gone.



That pretty much sums it up.  Hell, I don't disagree.  But as Fred pointed out on page 1 I think, by looking at this game you can conclude that ZT is holding Mixon and the run game down just as much as he is liberating Ross.

False narrative. Taylor said they were prepared for a few things and the thing Seattle did was stack the LOS and try to completely take the run away--force the Bengals to throw to move the ball. 

That's not holding Mixon back. That's adjusting to what your opponent is doing. 

[*Nately120*]

(09-10-2019, 12:20 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: False narrative. Taylor said they were prepared for a few things and the thing Seattle did was stack the LOS and try to completely take the run away--force the Bengals to throw to move the ball. 

That's not holding Mixon back. That's adjusting to what your opponent is doing. 

I wasn't aware Joe Mixon was the kind of player who had to be allowed by the other team to succeed.  In all fairness, I'm intrigued to see how we look against SF.  Mere regression towards the mean would indicate more running plays, obviously. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-09-2019, 11:59 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I thought the sports cliche was that no one believing in you inspired winners to work harder in order to prove everyone wrong...or something.

Not mutually exclusive. 


But i get that you're doing your thing, so just take my reply with a grain of salt. 

[*bfine32*]

(09-10-2019, 12:06 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Dude, Marvin was the coach since my first year of being a fan. Why WOULDN'T we (especially I) compare the new coach to him? It's human nature to compare the two!

Why are you so salty about us talking about Marvin Lewis anyways?

It's fair to compare ZT to ML, but according to the OP; that was not the reason for his thread. So we should respect his wishes and cease from doing do. 

Perhaps he's salty because folks are going against the wishes of the OP

[*Nately120*]

(09-10-2019, 12:22 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Not mutually exclusive. 


But i get that you're doing your thing, so just take my reply with a grain of salt. 

Yeah, devil's advocate and all that.  I assure you if/when Ross gets run out of town I'll take up the mantle of trying to convince us that it wasn't his fault. But on a serious note, I'm still not sure how happy we should be with the idea that Ross needs to be coddled and complimented like at least one of my crazy ex girlfriends.

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-10-2019, 12:08 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Ross himself said he reacted to criticism or being put on the sideline by getting upset and losing confidence in himself. I don't think Chad, Pacman and/or Burfict ever admitted to responding to criticism that way.  

My take on Ross is less about Marvin and ZT and more about how Dalton approaches him.  Ross was on the field last year, quite a lot actually, and Dalton didn't target him very often.  Dalton seems to be targeting him a lot more so far in 2019 so I trust Dalton to make these decisions more than I'm going to come up with reasons why Marvin would put Ross on the field and not let Dalton throw it to him.

That's why i said what i said in the previous post about him being mentally weak. 

I was commenting on Marv's double standard in 'player accountability', so we're kind of on different pages. 

I'd say the scheme didn't fit Ross, more than anything, last year. He wasn't put in position to make plays. Really, not a lot of receivers were. How many complaints were lodged in gameday threads about a lack of crossing patterns or short throws over the middle to 'backs? WR routes were old school/bland/unimaginitive. There's no great Marv conspiracy re: on the field play. Just that he was quick to bench him for whatever reason--despite what he could have done for the offense--when other clowns were repeatedly ran out there time and again.