Bobby Hart

[sandwedge]

(09-09-2019, 12:31 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I'm curious to see the PFF grades. I know Hart gave up a sack on the last play. Other than that, I didn't see any bad.

I think Andre Smith gave up atleast a couple sacks and more pressures.

I think Seattle was playing way off and took ask a OL to block that long against Jefferson and Clowny would have been a tall task.

[McC]

(09-09-2019, 12:33 PM)Earendil Wrote: I kind of wish he had pump-faked it just a bit to get Clowney off his feet before actually throwing it.

True, but if that adds another second to the setup, that just gives the defense another second to get there.  Seems like the best screens get going without a lofting throw.  Now, maybe if you get him off his feet, you throw it under his arm.

[Earendil]

(09-09-2019, 12:42 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Or zinged it really hard in his sack, that would keep him from jumping up.....

(09-09-2019, 12:45 PM)McC Wrote: True, but if that adds another second to the setup, that just gives the defense another second to get there. Seems like the best screens get going without a lofting throw. Now, maybe if you get him off his feet, you throw it under his arm.

You have a point. This would all be moot if Andre had been able to stop Clowney from getting into the backfield to begin with.

[3wt]

(09-09-2019, 09:02 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I don't think the Bengals had one FS penalty.  And on several third-and-longs (Seattle was in those a lot!), I saw Wilson do the hard count to try and get a free play to throw a bomb.  Did the same on a third and four.  Not one guy flinched.  I don't think I have ever seen them play that disciplined.  Dre's penalty was ticky-tacky and both players did the exact same shove less than one second apart, but Dre was shoved in the back.  Still can't push back, but stupid as hell from the refs.  

Cleveland had 7 personal fouls (that's 105 yards) and their LT was ejected.  Totally different discipline, or lack thereof.

Hardly a perfect game.   Had trouble in the red zone in the second half, and Seattle got it done when they had to on both sides of the ball while we foundered when in crunch time.  

But such a different team!    Well disciplined except for Dre's lapse (don't blame him for being angry, but you just got to think of the ramifications of losing it).   Hart played so much better than last year and Gio ran well between the tackles in the fourth quarter.   And I'm totally blown away by John Ross!   Especially after the drop.  Said so much about him, Andy and Zach.   Even when we struggled in the red zone we were moving the ball well between the 20s and our defense caused them a lot of trouble.




This is a young embattled team with a rookie head coach.   I'm very encouraged for the first time since last year's first Raven's game.  We were one field goal away from taking the game from a good team with a major home field advantage.

Today at least, I have some hope.

[3wt]

(09-09-2019, 09:44 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: It was a bit strange. I guess Andy thought ZT called TO and ZT thought Andy did ? Perhaps the only time the entire game where confusion seemed to rear it's head ?

That was my take.   And I have every confidence they'll clean that up.

[3wt]

(09-09-2019, 09:49 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The thing is, this offense isn't sustainable. We gave up 5 sacks. We have to run more for that simple reason.

If we only threw 25-30 times, we likely only give up 3 sacks.

I see your point.  But it was clear that Seattle was totally geared to stopping the run, daring us to pass.   And we got the job done - to the point that Gio was starting to find creases between the tackles in the fourth quarter.

Like you I fear that we'll never run the ball well, that we get little push in the run game.   But for the first time in a while I have the idea that we may start developing a run game.

[3wt]

(09-09-2019, 09:52 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I'm just going to flat out say the Oline gets the game ball. Yeah, Andy got sacked a few times, but he had a lot of time on a lot of plays, and in the loudest stadium in the league, facing an excellent dline, had 0 false starts. That's discipline. If they could have opened a running lane, we'd have run away with that game, but the pass pro was light years ahead of last year.

An excellent front 7.   The strength of their team.   And equally great against the run and pass.  Says a lot that we got so much yardage against them.   But if we run into a team that has a great front 7 AND good DBs, it will be a different story.

[THE PISTONS]

Still waiting for 'official numbers' to come out, but this guy is from CincyJungle and he has Hart down as giving up 6 pressures, Smith 5, and Jordan 4.

geno atkins (5), sam hubbard (4) carl lawson (3), carlos dunlap (2): 14 pressures

bobby hart (6), andre smith (5), michael jordan (4): 15 allowed pressures

— john sheeran (@John__Sheeran) September 9, 2019

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[yang]

(09-09-2019, 01:52 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Still waiting for 'official numbers' to come out, but this guy is from CincyJungle and he has Hart down as giving up 6 pressures, Smith 5, and Jordan 4.

geno atkins (5), sam hubbard (4) carl lawson (3), carlos dunlap (2): 14 pressures

bobby hart (6), andre smith (5), michael jordan (4): 15 allowed pressures

— john sheeran (@John__Sheeran) September 9, 2019

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At the old Bengals message board years ago there was a poster named rabbi who always posted "6-10 at best!"   I feel that way still.   This is not good. 

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(09-09-2019, 01:52 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Still waiting for 'official numbers' to come out, but this guy is from CincyJungle and he has Hart down as giving up 6 pressures, Smith 5, and Jordan 4.

geno atkins (5), sam hubbard (4) carl lawson (3), carlos dunlap (2): 14 pressures

bobby hart (6), andre smith (5), michael jordan (4): 15 allowed pressures

— john sheeran (@John__Sheeran) September 9, 2019

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So Hopkins and Miller were perfect?

Yeah, calling BS

EDIT: Oh, it's JS. He's usually spot on, but I don't believe that is correct.

FURTHER EDIT: Definitely BS; Dunlap had 2 QB hits, more hurries and a sack, yet JS only had him at 2 pressures.

He's good with his analysis, but yeah.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-09-2019, 02:25 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: So Hopkins and Miller were perfect?

Yeah, calling BS

EDIT: Oh, it's JS. He's usually spot on, but I don't believe that is correct.

FURTHER EDIT: Definitely BS; Dunlap had 2 QB hits, more hurries and a sack, yet JS only had him at 2 pressures.

He's good with his analysis, but yeah.

Yeah I'm still waiting for others to come out too.

re: Hopkins and Miller - I don't recall seeing them get beaten that I can recall.

[samhain]

Hart is what he is. If you're not getting costly penalties from him, that's about all you can ask. He's not a high-level or even average NFL OT, and he's proven it as a starter for a pretty large sample size.

I view him as a placeholder, as that's what he was when they brought him in in 17. He's a guy taking up that space until they can draft a guy to do it better long term. We know that they wanted to do that in the 2nd this past April had their guy not been taken before they picked. This speaks volumes after locking him up just a month earlier.

The best I can say for him is that he's not Cedric Ogbuehi or Jake Fisher, and that's a positive. He's helped stabilize an abysmal position group. That's great and all, but I still want a better player manning that spot sooner rather than later.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-09-2019, 02:47 PM)samhain Wrote: Hart is what he is.  If you're not getting costly penalties from him, that's about all you can ask.  He's not a high-level or even average NFL OT, and he's proven it as a starter for a pretty large sample size.  

I view him as a placeholder, as that's what he was when they brought him in in 17.  He's a guy taking up that space until they can draft a guy to do it better long term.  We know that they wanted to do that in the 2nd this past April had their guy not been taken before they picked.  This speaks volumes after locking him up just a month earlier.  

The best I can say for him is that he's not Cedric Ogbuehi or Jake Fisher, and that's a positive.  He's helped stabilize an abysmal position group.  That's great and all, but I still want a better player manning that spot sooner rather than later.

Well, IF we could land an OT with our 1st Round pick...we could have that new OT and Jonah as our starters.

Then, waive Glenn to get out of his contract and use that money elsewhere.

Hopefully Jordan and Price continue to develop. Jordan didn't do great, but he wasn't terrible either in his 1st game on the road.

[Sled21]

Well, at least they didn't get a flag for "False start... on every lineman except the Center" called on them like Pittsburgh did. I about spit up on that one.....

[samhain]

(09-09-2019, 02:52 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well, IF we could land an OT with our 1st Round pick...we could have that new OT and Jonah as our starters.

Then, waive Glenn to get out of his contract and use that money elsewhere.

Hopefully Jordan and Price continue to develop. Jordan didn't do great, but he wasn't terrible either in his 1st game on the road.

That would be ideal, IMO.  I think things will work themselves out one way or the other with the interior line.  I don't think Price is written off yet, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him at OG at some point.  

RT is the last piece to be upgraded with youth and talent if all goes well.  However, it's going to be 3 years straight without spending a high pick on the defense.  5 out of the last 6 picks in rounds 1 and 2 have been offensive players.  That's going to have to change soon.   

[*ochocincos*]

(09-09-2019, 02:52 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well, IF we could land an OT with our 1st Round pick...we could have that new OT and Jonah as our starters.

Then, waive Glenn to get out of his contract and use that money elsewhere.

Hopefully Jordan and Price continue to develop. Jordan didn't do great, but he wasn't terrible either in his 1st game on the road.

Next year's draft will be interesting. It definitely looks to be stacked on the offensive side for the early 1st rounders.
QB, WR, and OL.


I could honestly see the Bengals choosing to go with any of those positions and be fine with it.
OT fills an obvious weakness IMO.
WR could be an option if the team didn't want to sign AJ to a big contract extension.
QB if the team wants to move on from Dalton (although if he keeps performing like Sunday I don't see why they would).

[Joelist]

We probably should have been empty backfield with 2 TE and 3 WR on that last try - it could have held the pressure back long enough for a play to develop.

[*psychdoctor*]

(09-09-2019, 12:23 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We ran TE screens in years past too.

The RB screens to Bernard seemed to work in the 2nd half nicely.

That screen was almost tipped by DL.  Dalton simply has to do better with throwing lanes and arc.  This has been an ongoing issue, which is what impressed me by Finley.  Dalton does not have great pocket presence.  With that said, I thought Dalton stood "Tall" in the pocket.  He just needs better arc and to find lanes.  Watch for a lot of screens against an aggressive front 7 in the 49ers.   

[*psychdoctor*]

(09-09-2019, 12:31 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I'm curious to see the PFF grades. I know Hart gave up a sack on the last play. Other than that, I didn't see any bad.

I think Andre Smith gave up atleast a couple sacks and more pressures.

I was also surprised by how well Smith played.  Hopkins looked like a beast out there.  He just doesn't have push.  I think what the Bengals must implement is trap blocking to establish the run.  Should work nicely if done correctly.  

[*psychdoctor*]

(09-09-2019, 02:47 PM)samhain Wrote: Hart is what he is.  If you're not getting costly penalties from him, that's about all you can ask.  He's not a high-level or even average NFL OT, and he's proven it as a starter for a pretty large sample size.  

I view him as a placeholder, as that's what he was when they brought him in in 17.  He's a guy taking up that space until they can draft a guy to do it better long term.  We know that they wanted to do that in the 2nd this past April had their guy not been taken before they picked.  This speaks volumes after locking him up just a month earlier.  

The best I can say for him is that he's not Cedric Ogbuehi or Jake Fisher, and that's a positive.  He's helped stabilize an abysmal position group.  That's great and all, but I still want a better player manning that spot sooner rather than later.

Are you saying that Hart has not shown improvement over the past season?  I see a lot of improvement.  The fact that fans are not raging on this forum about Hart speaks volumes.    

What bothers me is lack of push by ANY linemen outside of Price.  So trap blocking schemes is probably in the plans.