John Ross Haters

[*SHRacerX*]

(09-09-2019, 12:24 PM)TKUHL Wrote: John is that you? Sure he played a great game! Made some mistakes but made up for most of them. I’m glad he finally had a breakout game but 

Two seasons and one game is a long time to wait?  And you can only do things when given the opportunity.  That is what I think is missed on a lot of people regarding Ross.  He had a 12 yard gain (I think) his first carry, but fumbled.  He was benched after that and never really a part of the game plan between the 20s other than to run verticals over and over and try to stretch the defense.  
He had a blatant drop his first target.  Instead of being benched, ZT and Dalton went RIGHT back to him (and that one was a catch, stupid ass NFL...seriously, a WHITE GLOVE UNDER THE BALL AT ALL TIMES BETWEEN THE BALL AND THE GREEN TURF.  How do those rat bastards miss that?)  Same with his later drop before the TD just before the half.  It is a difference of coaching styles.  

Regardless of the past, Ross is now soaring with confidence.  That end of the half TD was a thing of beauty.  He tracked the ball, leaped, and snagged it clean.  Gorgeous. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(09-09-2019, 12:44 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Well, at least I never called him a bust or trash. I pointed out his stats and called out the bogus excuses people made for them.

Just out of curiosity, what were the bogus excuses you refer to?

[*SHRacerX*]

(09-09-2019, 02:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have defended ross against the extreme haters. Posted a list of really good wrs who didn't do much their first two seasons.

On the other hand i have posted stats showing that ross's numbers last year (catch%, yds per target) were among the very worst by any wr with at least 50 targets over the last decade.

I am thrilled shitless to see him have a game like this. Funny thing is that his defenders often argued that the problem was he was targeted deep too often, but his big numbers Sunday were due to being targeted deep.

Ross may be effective on short routes, but short routes don't keep the safety deep. A deep threat may not have big catch numbers but he will create yards for other receivers by keeping the defense loose.

While this is true, and I love the big play, a part of what can make his such a weapon is when DBs start playing off him and Dalton hits him with a quick strike and the defense has to tackle him in space.  You have only seen a glimpse of his elusiveness in space in the NFL but he did it a lot in college.  After that flea flicker, when he made the last guy miss at the 5 yard line...he wouldn't have been down in flag football. The guy completely whiffed.  Didn't even touch him.  And if safeties are going to shade to Green's side, it could open up these opportunities even more. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(09-09-2019, 07:38 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: we may have best 3 receiver tandem in the league when AJ returns. ill take the Pepsi challenge against anybody including AB Gordon and Edelman. AJ Boyd Ross is quite a tandem if Ross keeps playing like this

Add in Eifert and Uzo.  Then sprinkle in some Gio and Mixon.  Top it all off with the experience and accuracy of Dalton...and you have an offense capable of making the playoffs.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(09-10-2019, 02:15 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Don't kid yourself. You're still full of shit. 

It is so simple, but I cracked up...I nominate this to the HOF. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-11-2019, 08:20 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: It is so simple, but I cracked up...I nominate this to the HOF. 

I chuckled. 

Anyone can put something in the HoF, but i wouldn't put this there. I was just having a little fun. 

[Luvnit2]

(09-11-2019, 10:31 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I chuckled. 

Anyone can put something in the HoF, but i wouldn't put this there. I was just having a little fun. 

You laugh (chuckle) at your own jokes. 

Do you talk to yourself as well? 

On serious side, we need more joking in this forum, I know I get way too serious and forget we all need to laugh and have fun with our team and each other.

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-11-2019, 11:00 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: You laugh (chuckle) at your own jokes. 

Do you talk to yourself as well?  

On serious side, we need more joking in this forum, I know I get way too serious and forget we all need to laugh and have fun with our team and each other.

lol. All the time. 

[Luvnit2]

(09-11-2019, 11:18 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: lol. All the time. 

Me too. I am the only one who will listen to me. 

[Whatever]

(09-09-2019, 02:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have defended ross against the extreme haters. Posted a list of really good wrs who didn't do much their first two seasons.

On the other hand i have posted stats showing that ross's numbers last year (catch%, yds per target) were among the very worst by any wr with at least 50 targets over the last decade.

I am thrilled shitless to see him have a game like this. Funny thing is that his defenders often argued that the problem was he was targeted deep too often, but his big numbers Sunday were due to being targeted deep.

Ross may be effective on short routes, but short routes don't keep the safety deep. A deep threat may not have big catch numbers but he will create yards for other receivers by keeping the defense loose.

I saw few arguing about him being targeted deep.  However, it's important to point out that deep passes have a lower rate of completion when a player who sees a lot of deep targets is being dinged for having a poor catch percentage.

Another topic was route selection.  Last year, he would constantly run fly routes which has a very low chance of completion in the NFL and is really more of a clear out route.  His 2 TD's were on a wheel route and an out and up.  

[Luvnit2]

(09-11-2019, 11:50 AM)Whatever Wrote: I saw few arguing about him being targeted deep.  However, it's important to point out that deep passes have a lower rate of completion when a player who sees a lot of deep targets is being dinged for having a poor catch percentage.

Another topic was route selection.  Last year, he would constantly run fly routes which has a very low chance of completion in the NFL and is really more of a clear out route.  His 2 TD's were on a wheel route and an out and up.  

It will be interesting to see how defenses game plan against us now. Do they play more zone if they feel bad matchups to cover Boyd, Willis, Ross and Eifert man to man?

I like our weapons if we can keep progressing (Ross and Willis). I am hopeful a healthy AJ Green joins a healthy group when he returns as then the matchups get a lot tougher for any defense.

I know it appears Jimmy Smith may be out against us in a few weeks along with their slot corner Tavon Young. So, we need to be full strength (AJ back) by week 6, if so Ravens defense maybe handicapped and hopefully we take advantage. I mention Ravens as they appear to be best team in our division so we have to split minimum against them.

[fredtoast]

(09-11-2019, 11:50 AM)Whatever Wrote: I saw few arguing about him being targeted deep. 

Then you did not take part in many of the conversations.  That was by far the biggest defense for Ross.  His supporters claimed that almost all he ran was deep routes.

Over half of Ross's receptions last year were for 6 yards or less (12 of 21).  He only had 4 receptions longer than 13 yards.  And those numbers include yards after catch.

I don't know exactly how ProfootballReference defines a "deep" pass or a "short pass", but according to them 17 of the 37 targets that were incomplete were on "short" passes.  So overall a large majority of his target (35 of his 58) were on "short" passes.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-11-2019, 12:27 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It will be interesting to see how defenses game plan against us now. Do they play more zone if they feel bad matchups to cover Boyd, Willis, Ross and Eifert man to man?

I like our weapons if we can keep progressing (Ross and Willis). I am hopeful a healthy AJ Green joins a healthy group when he returns as then the matchups get a lot tougher for any defense.

I know it appears Jimmy Smith may be out against us in a few weeks along with their slot corner Tavon Young. So, we need to be full strength (AJ back) by week 6, if so Ravens defense maybe handicapped and hopefully we take advantage. I mention Ravens as they appear to be best team in our division so we have to split minimum against them.

My guess is that teams will play Zone and blitz us. Our offensive line is the weak link on the offense.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

(09-11-2019, 01:11 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: My guess is that teams will play Zone and blitz us. Our offensive line is the weak link on the offense.

It's much easier to run against that defense though even with a weaker offensive line Also our QB quickness of getting the ball out can pick a zone blitz apart. The pats had a mediocre line last year.They seemed to be fine. Mainly because of quick outs to edelman slowed down pass rush enough.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-11-2019, 01:28 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: It's much easier to run against that defense though even with a weaker offensive line Also our QB quickness of getting the ball out can pick a zone blitz apart. The pats had a mediocre line last year.They seemed to be fine. Mainly because of quick outs to edelman slowed down pass rush enough.

I think the Pats are a good comparison to how we will eventually run the ball.

[Luvnit2]

(09-11-2019, 01:11 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: My guess is that teams will play Zone and blitz us. Our offensive line is the weak link on the offense.

Based on all of the sacks and OL holding calls in week#1, it appears most teams weakest link is OL play.


I know Dallas, Raiders and KC were awesome with zero sacks, but seemed watching all games at same time, lots of holding calls, batted passes, QB pressures and sacks.

I counted 17 teams giving up 2 or more sacks. I don't have QB team pressure numbers or holding.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-11-2019, 01:35 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Based on all of the sacks and OL holding calls in week#1, it appears most teams weakest link is OL play.


I know Dallas, Raiders and KC were awesome with zero sacks, but seemed watching all games at same time, lots of holding calls, batted passes, QB pressures and sacks.

I counted 17 teams giving up 2 or more sacks. I don't have QB team pressure numbers or holding.

The Browns appeared to have a REALLY bad line for sure. Saw a lot of guys lose their cool and have personal fouls.

It will be interesting to see when we throw 35 times how we do. I think lineman probably like to run block more than pass block in general.

[BengalChris]

(09-11-2019, 08:07 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Just out of curiosity, what were the bogus excuses you refer to?

Let's count them.

1. Marvin hates him
2. He's really a rookie (used for 2 seasons and even this off-season)
3. QB is incompetent  (used to explain the 35% catch percentage) - ignores that Green and Boyd didn't experience this problem. Now this one could apply to Driskel, but at that same time Boyd didn't have a problem.
4. Marvin doesn't know how to use WRs (completely ignores all the very, very good WRs who have come through here in the last 16 years)
5. He's injured (used repeatedly even when he wasn't)
6. His average target distance was 14 yards (used to explain the 35% catch percentage) - ignores that AJ's were only 4 feet shorter and all WRs in the NFL with longer average target distance had a better catch percentage.
7. Balls are uncatchable (ignores that he was having route running problems and wasn't in the right spot and ignores that Dalton is a fairly accurate QB and ignores that Boyd and Green didn't experience the same problem)
8. He's not getting any opportunities and playing time (which was completely untrue last season)

The fact is that he has improved this season. A LOT. Whatever the cause of the improvement, coaching, play design, extra work in the off-season, a combination of all those, it doesn't really matter. He has improved a lot and I'm happy to see it. It's bad for a team with a top 10 picks flops, even in their first season. Gotta get those high picks contributing.

Did I doubt that he'd ever really get it? Yes, I did. Seen guys come and go over the years. One good college season and a big flop in the NFL.

Did I underestimate what ZT could bring to the offense? Yes, by quite a bit. But I also see the poor running game as an Achilles Heal for this team presently. It has to get better.

Look, I'm happy that he's come along. The team needed him to step up and he did on Sunday. He did surprise me. I was prepared to be disappointed again.

 

[Luvnit2]

(09-11-2019, 04:08 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Let's count them.

1. Marvin hates him
2. He's really a rookie (used for 2 seasons and even this off-season)
3. QB is incompetent  (used to explain the 35% catch percentage) - ignores that Green and Boyd didn't experience this problem. Now this one could apply to Driskel, but at that same time Boyd didn't have a problem.
4. Marvin doesn't know how to use WRs (completely ignores all the very, very good WRs who have come through here in the last 16 years)
5. He's injured (used repeatedly even when he wasn't)
6. His average target distance was 14 yards (used to explain the 35% catch percentage) - ignores that AJ's were only 4 feet shorter and all WRs in the NFL with longer average target distance had a better catch percentage.
7. Balls are uncatchable (ignores that he was having route running problems and wasn't in the right spot and ignores that Dalton is a fairly accurate QB and ignores that Boyd and Green didn't experience the same problem)
8. He's not getting any opportunities and playing time (which was completely untrue last season)

The fact is that he has improved this season. A LOT. Whatever the cause of the improvement, coaching, play design, extra work in the off-season, a combination of all those, it doesn't really matter. He has improved a lot and I'm happy to see it. It's bad for a team with a top 10 picks flops, even in their first season. Gotta get those high picks contributing.

Did I doubt that he'd ever really get it? Yes, I did. Seen guys come and go over the years. One good college season and a big flop in the NFL.

Did I underestimate what ZT could bring to the offense? Yes, by quite a bit. But I also see the poor running game as an Achilles Heal for this team presently. It has to get better.

Look, I'm happy that he's come along. The team needed him to step up and he did on Sunday. He did surprise me. I was prepared to be disappointed again.

 

You must be really upset J. Williams will do nothing in 2019. Likely less than Ross did in his rookie year.

When do you start attacking Williams? Is it juts Ross you don't like?

[*SHRacerX*]

(09-11-2019, 04:08 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Let's count them.

1. Marvin hates him (I think he clearly did not like his drafting at all...I wouldn't call that bogus)
2. He's really a rookie (used for 2 seasons and even this off-season)=- He has played in 17 games, that is one more than a rookie season.
3. QB is incompetent  (used to explain the 35% catch percentage) - ignores that Green and Boyd didn't experience this problem. Now this one could apply to Driskel, but at that same time Boyd didn't have a problem. (The bad oline and Driskel's accuracy were a bad combination for Ross and the way he was used was the trifecta...not bogus at all)
4. Marvin doesn't know how to use WRs (completely ignores all the very, very good WRs who have come through here in the last 16 years)- I think people said Marv didn't know how to use Ross, not all WRs.  And there is some legitimate concerns there...not bogus.  
5. He's injured (used repeatedly even when he wasn't)- I don't understand how this is bogus when he was scratched.
6. His average target distance was 14 yards (used to explain the 35% catch percentage) - ignores that AJ's were only 4 feet shorter and all WRs in the NFL with longer average target distance had a better catch percentage.  I didn't hear this one, but I would call that bogus...So there's one.  
7. Balls are uncatchable (ignores that he was having route running problems and wasn't in the right spot and ignores that Dalton is a fairly accurate QB and ignores that Boyd and Green didn't experience the same problem)- He was underthrown on a number...not bogus.  And no one said all were uncatchable.  You're reaching here.  
8. He's not getting any opportunities and playing time (which was completely untrue last season)-  Running 9 routes between the 20s and only being used as a target in the red zone was a legitimate concern.  Not bogus. 

The fact is that he has improved this season. A LOT. Whatever the cause of the improvement, coaching, play design, extra work in the off-season, a combination of all those, it doesn't really matter. He has improved a lot and I'm happy to see it. It's bad for a team with a top 10 picks flops, even in their first season. Gotta get those high picks contributing.

Did I doubt that he'd ever really get it? Yes, I did. Seen guys come and go over the years. One good college season and a big flop in the NFL.

Did I underestimate what ZT could bring to the offense? Yes, by quite a bit. But I also see the poor running game as an Achilles Heal for this team presently. It has to get better.

Look, I'm happy that he's come along. The team needed him to step up and he did on Sunday. He did surprise me. I was prepared to be disappointed again.