Thoughts after a few weeks...

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-18-2019, 07:30 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: OK, I will be brief on this, but doesn't he have 20 4th quarter comebacks?  I know the answer:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/comebacks_active.htm

According to this he is 8th in comebacks.  Seems to be capable of making the throws at the end of the game to win them. 

I know you don't like what ifs... however IF the kicker makes those kicks and Green doesn't fumble (which doesn't mean winning either way) he would have even more than 20.  He may not have as many as Philip Rivers, but he would be pretty close.  (I do know that the 2016 season would have been a division win and playoff appearance with an extra 3 wins if not for the kicking game, missing kicks less than 50 yards, Houston, Buffalo and NY Giants).  That would be good enough for 23.

Since 2011, for active QBs, he's actually tied for 2nd in 4th qtr comebacks and tied for 3rd in game winning drives. He's top 10 in completions, yards and TDs in that same time among active QBs. 

I'll state this again because it somehow keeps getting missed. Dalton is a good starting QB who generally falls in the "average" category in rating but has had a couple instances where he played above average when there was a strong supporting cast around him. 

You weren't around recently when this whole discussion came up. I raised the question, has Andy Dalton ever won a game at the end by throwing the team down the field and either throwing the GW TD or throwing the team down the field and they simply won the game, in a Sunday or Monday night game or in the playoffs. I knew the answer was no but i was trying to make a point without just going "derrr dalton suckz, he's terrible, replace him!!!". 

Instead of taking a good, honest look and realizing that he has never done this, the defenders came out with all kinds of excuses and reasons and diversions. There's no argument to be made that Dalton is a bad QB. All the stats i provided earlier in this thread dispute that notion. My whole angle is that he's not clutch during the most important parts of the most "important" games. If you don't like the term "most important games" then just see it as the most visible--playoffs, Sunday, Monday night. That is the one and only thing i'm doing. Pointing out that he's not clutch when the Bengals really need him to be. 

He will throw for a lot of yards, throw for a lot of touchdowns and he will win games but when true crunch time hits, he will not be able to get over the hump and be the biggest reason they win, as evidenced by all the examples i've given in other threads (when this came up) where he missed crucial throw after crucial throw--not just missing most or a lot, but missing them all. 

As much as i've pointed out his shortcomings, i can look at things objectively and point out positive things about him and about what he's done. The defender side doesn't seem to be able to do the same thing. They spend more time offering excuses and reasons instead of just saying, "hmm, that's true but i like him because...". It's always excuse this, excuse that, "you're a hater", etc etc. 

Up until probably 2016ish, maybe later, i was as active defending Dalton as anyone on this site. But i eventually opened my eyes and saw where his shortcomings are and realized it's highly unlikely that they're ever going to improve after so many years. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-18-2019, 07:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It has to be prime time.

And the opponenet has to be a playoff team.

And it has to be a one score game at the end. (but for some reason a FG with three minutes left in a 5 point game does not count)

This has happened six times in Andy's 8 year career.  Once (Cards '15) Andy drove the team to tie the game with less than a minute left but the defense let the other team drive for a game winning score.  Two other times Andy has made the throws but a teammate messed up.  Bullock missed a FG from the 25 against the Texans in '16, and Green fumbled at the Texans 20 in '17.

So basically all of Faulks squealing about "NEVER EVER EVER" means "THREE OUT OF SIX" times over 8 years.

No, the opponent doesn't have to be a playoff team. You made that up. 

It would just be nice if a Bengals fan could go into a primetime/playoff game knowing that Dalton has, at least ONCE, taken the team down the field for a win at the end. 

He's done it so many times on Sunday afternoon, WHY CAN'T HE DO IT IN PRIME TIME OR THE PLAYOFFS?


And while we're at it, stop using your bullshit numbers. You keep leaving out the playoff game where he missed AJ and you keep only counting each game as 1 time. There were multiple throws that he missed in some of those games, so EVERY MISS ON A CRUCIAL DRIVE COUNTS AS 1.


You should really try to find some way to get over your massive case of butthurt over me talking disparagingly about your boy AD. You are so bitter, it's not healthy. 

[OswaldsLegacy]

(09-18-2019, 07:40 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: I see the point you and others are trying to make . If they comeback and win(I.e. Aj catches a td pass) then that was Dalton's comeback but when he fumbles in the red zone that is his and the other 21 players loss. You can't have it both ways.

Basically.  This is it.

They give the credit or blame to Dalton, or any QB for that matter, unless it is someone that they like, when there are so many factors involved.

If Green catches Dalton's pass, then Dalton is credited?  Why only Dalton?  It should be both players making a great play for the team to win.  Like when we won in Pittsburgh to go to the playoffs and knocked them out.  The INT by Nelson was great and should be credited, then the 21 yard (I think) by Dalton was a factor, and Green catching the ball was a factor, plus going out of bounds to stop the clock, so play call.  Finally the kick by Brown to win. 

It wasn't any one thing or player, but the combination of these things to win the game.

Just like when we lose the game.  We need to know what the play call was, was it the best one?  Did the WRs run their routes correctly?  Did the defense of the opposing team make an unbelievable play?  What about the OLine?  Blocking scheme? Was a penalty missed?  Was the wrong penalty called?  If the pass was completed, did the WR fumble the ball away (not due to the defense, just lacking ball security), if caught and and no fumble, was he in bounds?  Do we have a time out?  Can we spike the ball?  Even then does the kicker make the kick?

All must be considered.

So it isn't all Dalton's fault for our losses or our wins.  Just like it isn't just Mahomes for KC's success.

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-18-2019, 07:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually Faulk is arguing that when Green fumbles or Bullock misses a FG that equals "Andy fails to make the throw to win".

Fred, you don't have to be a lying, conniving, full of shit skeevy lawyer on here. This isn't the courtroom. 

Unless you've not read a couple previous posts, what you just typed is an outright lie though not surprising, considering your tainted posting history. 

[OswaldsLegacy]

(09-18-2019, 07:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It has to be prime time.

And the opponenet has to be a playoff team.

And it has to be a one score game at the end. (but for some reason a FG with three minutes left in a 5 point game does not count)

This has happened six times in Andy's 8 year career.  Once (Cards '15) Andy drove the team to tie the game with less than a minute left but the defense let the other team drive for a game winning score.  Two other times Andy has made the throws but a teammate messed up.  Bullock missed a FG from the 25 against the Texans in '16, and Green fumbled at the Texans 20 in '17.

So basically all of Faulks squealing about "NEVER EVER EVER" means "THREE OUT OF SIX" times over 8 years.

Must have missed the parameters that was laid out.  Sorry.  Continue.

[*ochocincos*]

(09-18-2019, 09:52 PM)Bronxbengal Wrote: This team will win three games max!  Duke Tubin needs to be fired and the citizens of Cincinnati need to revolt and demand the Brown family sell the team.  This team is awful


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The city can't really demand that Brown sell the team, but they can stop attending games and stuff to drop profits. Then, if Brown chooses to try to move the team, the Art Modell law will kick in and permit someone else from Ohio to buy the team.

[fredtoast]

(09-18-2019, 10:12 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Fred, you don't have to be a lying, conniving, full of shit skeevy lawyer on here. This isn't the courtroom. 

Unless you've not read a couple previous posts, what you just typed is an outright lie though not surprising, considering your tainted posting history. 

Funny how i am able to make my point without resorting to spewing epitaphs.  

Dalton made the throws in the games where green fumbled and bullock missed a fg.  Yet you say he failed to make those throws. You are spinning a lame semantic argument to make it sound like Dalton failed instead of his teamates.

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-19-2019, 11:44 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Funny how i am able to make my point without resorting to spewing epitaphs.  

Dalton made the throws in the games where green fumbled and bullock missed a fg.  Yet you say he failed to make those throws. You are spinning a lame semantic argument to make it sound like Dalton failed instead of his teamates.

You don't make points. You lie and twist.

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-19-2019, 11:44 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Dalton made the throws in the games where green fumbled and bullock missed a fg.  Yet you say he failed to make those throws.

This will be, without a doubt, the last time i explain this to you.

He can't/hasn't made the throws late (see: right at the end of regulation/OT) to win  a game.  

Easy peasy lemon squeezy. I won't say it again. 

[fredtoast]

(09-19-2019, 11:52 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: You don't make points. You lie and twist.

Dalton made the throws in the games where green fumbled and bullock missed the FG , yet you claim he failed.

The fact that you ignored this point and resorted to personal attacks proves I am right.

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-19-2019, 12:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dalton made the throws in the games where green fumbled and bullock missed the FG , yet you claim he failed.

The fact that you ignored this point and resorted to personal attacks proves I am right.

No.

[fredtoast]

(09-19-2019, 12:16 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: No.

[Bronxbengal]

My thoughts....team sucks and we are headed for another lost decade! The Brown family are a bunch of clowns


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