It's officially over

[*ochocincos*]

(10-01-2019, 11:37 AM)ah5 Wrote: I am not sure they are worse, I guess we will see cant remember which week they play.  Maybe it will be the playoff for who gets tua.

In true Bengals fashion, they would have Tagovailoa available to them and end up taking a different QB.

[Au165]

(10-01-2019, 11:36 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Wren seems too big for being a DE in a 3-4 IMO. Not changing my mind on that.
Meanwhile, Dunlap is 285 and Atkins is 300.

I know Lawson wasn't available, but if the Bengals did deploy a 3-4, my ideal personnel would be:
NT - Billings
DE - Dunlap, Atkins
OLB - Lawson, Hubbard
ILB - Brown, Pratt

Calais Campbell played in a 3-4 as an end for years a 6-8 300, there is no set size for a 5 technique they have all different ranges. You can put out your ideal formation, what I am pointing out was that there was nothing "embarrassing" about a fictitious "new" formation. It was a 3-4, that maybe you didn't like the personnel, there was nothing crazy about it. 

Booger acting like it was something special is yet another example of him trying to sound smarter than he is. When the Saints played he discussed that Taysum Hill is tough to figure out what he is going to do, but when he is lined up as a TE he is either going to block or run a route...yea he actually said that.

[Au165]

(10-01-2019, 11:38 AM)ochocincos Wrote: In true Bengals fashion, they would have Tagovailoa available to them and end up taking a different QB.

I want to watch more tape on all the QB's. Tua has seemed like the run away favorite, but I want to rewatch Georgia last year as well as Clemson tape. I think there are flaws in the game that get covered up by supreme talent, which he wouldn't have here I just want to see what they are.

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-01-2019, 11:32 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yes, I think that it's about that time.  Last night, Andy looked defeated and dejected, frustrated to the point where he wasn't even thinking anymore.  Just robotically dropping back three steps and unloading as quick as he could.  Last night would have been a perfect time to give Ryan Finley a few series of live action.

Sunset I don't think AD sucks, is a horrible QB, couldn't beat out a junior high QB. But the fact is he's not the answer moving forward with where this team is at and most likely where it will remain in the foreseeable future. The Oline isn't going to just morph into a top notch unit next season, it's gonna take TIME.

So why not get a long term look at Finley and hell even Dolegala now ?

[*ochocincos*]

(10-01-2019, 11:43 AM)Au165 Wrote: Calais Campbell played in a 3-4 as an end for years a 6-8 300, there is no set size for a 5 technique they have all different ranges. You can put out your ideal formation, what I am pointing out was that there was nothing "embarrassing" about a fictitious "new" formation. It was a 3-4, that maybe you didn't like the personnel, there was nothing crazy about it. 

Booger acting like it was something special is yet another example of him trying to sound smarter than he is. When the Saints played he discussed that Taysum Hill is tough to figure out what he is going to do, but when he is lined up as a TE he is either going to block or run a route...yea he actually said that.

That's still 15 lbs lighter than Wren.
The ideal size is in the 285-300 range with some bend and speed (for that size).
Wren also is not ready to see the field yet IMO, but I guess he kind of got forced given injuries to Glasgow, Lawson, and Wren.

I get your point but my point is the Bengals trotted out too many slow dudes that can't stuff the LOS well enough or have enough speed to get to the edge when the opponents bounce a run outside.

[Tiger Teeth]

(10-01-2019, 11:32 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yes, I think that it's about that time.  Last night, Andy looked defeated and dejected, frustrated to the point where he wasn't even thinking anymore.  Just robotically dropping back three steps and unloading as quick as he could.  Last night would have been a perfect time to give Ryan Finley a few series of live action.

And get a real feel for what it's like to get slaughtered?  

[Au165]

(10-01-2019, 11:50 AM)ochocincos Wrote: That's still 15 lbs lighter than Wren.
The ideal size is in the 285-300 range with some bend and speed (for that size).
Wren also is not ready to see the field yet IMO, but I guess he kind of got forced given injuries to Glasgow, Lawson, and Wren.

I get your point but my point is the Bengals trotted out too many slow dudes that can't stuff the LOS well enough or have enough speed to get to the edge when the opponents bounce a run outside.

They did fine between the tackles until late when like we have seen in the past they got gashed. The edges aren't the responsibility of the down linemen in a 3-4 no matter the personnel, unless it's an over or under set which this wasn't. That was on the OLB's and the Safeties/CB's who I continue to say have killed us in correctly being the force defender and holding the edge.

[XenoMorph]

(10-01-2019, 07:06 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I've watched Andy Dalton fold up like a pup tent for the last time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah offensive line, I get it. But that doesn't change the fact that AD's pocket awareness is crap. Dalton's ability to maneuver in the pocket and remain any kind of effective is crap. Dalton doesn't know how or just flat won't step up in the pocket. He panics at the first sign he's not gonna have security zone around him and his accuracy goes out the window. Move him off his point and the play is over.

I'm sick of all the excuses. It's time to turn the page.

Somebody holler at me when they put Finley in.

there has to be a pocket for Dalton to be aware of one.

[SunsetBengal]

(10-01-2019, 11:52 AM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: And get a real feel for what it's like to get slaughtered?  

I didn't say that we should make him the starting QB, but getting him some live action in relief could be a good thing for his development. Besides that, obviously they need to get a good look at him, in order to see if he's even worth developing into a starter, or it's time to go whole hog on a first round QB. He wasn't "fantastic' in preseason, but I saw some traits that I think lean toward him being a solid NFL QB.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-01-2019, 12:04 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: there has to be a pocket for Dalton to be aware of one.

Does Dalton deserve ANY blame according to you?

[Tiger Teeth]

(10-01-2019, 12:04 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I didn't say that we should make him the starting QB, but getting him some live action in relief could be a good thing for his development.

Oh.  Well maybe you're right.  I hope people realize that I think it is probably time to look for a new and younger QB.  But I just think many are overlooking the BIG picture with this team.  I would rather fix some other problems before we put a shiny new rookie back there to get hurt.

[SunsetBengal]

(10-01-2019, 12:07 PM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: Oh.  Well maybe you're right.  I hope people realize that I think it is probably time to look for a new and younger QB.  But I just think many are overlooking the BIG picture with this team.  I would rather fix some other problems before we put a shiny new rookie back there to get hurt.

Agreed, but I also feel the Andy ship has sailed.  So, they really need to see if Finley can be a good starter, worth building around, or if they need to pick a new franchise QB.  Honestly?  If it weren't for the Jonah Williams, Clint Boling and Cordy Glenn situations, I don't believe that we're having any of these conversations right now.

[fortyyearfan]

(10-01-2019, 07:13 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yep. The OL does in fact suck terribly, but Andy Dalton himself has actually won a game (Jets 2016) where he was sacked 7 times. SEVEN TIMES! So the nonsense about “Tom Brady couldn’t win with this OL” is just that...nonsense. QB’s win all the time with subpar lines. Every opposing QB I watch does a better job of moving around and extending plays. Dalton does NOTHING to help himself. I think he’s done.

I give you this,O-4 with Dalton and he is worse than awlful.Throws over their heads,behind them in the ground and just terrible.I am going to sick the rest of this season.I am checking myself in to the local va and not coming out again until we win a superbowl,so I guess I will be there for another 50 years and Zac Taylor,you are in over your brain cells and if you do not put finley in you are not wanting to win.

[Catmandude123]

(10-01-2019, 07:06 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I've watched Andy Dalton fold up like a pup tent for the last time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah offensive line, I get it. But that doesn't change the fact that AD's pocket awareness is crap. Dalton's ability to maneuver in the pocket and remain any kind of effective is crap. Dalton doesn't know how or just flat won't step up in the pocket. He panics at the first sign he's not gonna have security zone around him and his accuracy goes out the window. Move him off his point and the play is over.

I'm sick of all the excuses. It's time to turn the page.

Somebody holler at me when they put Finley in.

I remember when Dalton would go to the QB guru every spring and would come back the next year new and improved Andy. His performance the last few years show regression. Enough is enough. Do something even if its wrong.

[Millhouse]

Ive been ready to move on at QB for awhile now.

That said, AD has a lot going against him. He has a garbage o-line for starters, and that does matter. He has 1 receiver he can truly rely on in Boyd, as Ross and the other youngsters are just random. Eifert doesnt have that chemistry factor it seems. Then to top it off his coaches had zero NFL experience at calling plays in gametime situations going into this season. Taylor has none, and the "oc" Callahan has none.

But hey, at least the front office went out and drafted a blocking tight end in the second round. Brilliant!

[Catmandude123]

I am so done with Dalton I would even consider signing Kaepernic. At least I would enjoy seeing him sacked eight times a game.

[*Nately120*]

(10-01-2019, 12:07 PM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: Oh.  Well maybe you're right.  I hope people realize that I think it is probably time to look for a new and younger QB.  But I just think many are overlooking the BIG picture with this team.  I would rather fix some other problems before we put a shiny new rookie back there to get hurt.

I get that, but we might actually have to give Dalton another 4 or 5 years as our starting QB in order to avoid putting a new QB behind a bad line.  Dalton looked completely furious last night, so to expect him to just put up with this until we finally fix our o-line through the draft is wishful thinking, at best.

The biggest issue I have is that we went into the 2019 draft saying that we have to fix our biggest issues at LB and o-line and we are going to go into the 2020 draft with the exact same issues.  What year will it be when we say FINALLY our o-line is good enough to replace Dalton?  2020?  2022?  In the year 2525?


AGAIN - this isn't about replacing Dalton or me even wanting that, it's about admitting that we are going to have a hard time fixing this o-line by the time Dalton is done.

[Catmandude123]

(10-01-2019, 11:52 AM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: And get a real feel for what it's like to get slaughtered?  

We got that feeling last night and against the niners.

[Tiger Teeth]

(10-01-2019, 12:22 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I get that, but we might actually have to give Dalton another 4 or 5 years as our starting QB in order to avoid putting a new QB behind a bad line.  Dalton looked completely furious last night, so to expect him to just put up with this until we finally fix our o-line through the draft is wishful thinking, at best.

The biggest issue I have is that we went into the 2019 draft saying that we have to fix our biggest issues at LB and o-line and we are going to go into the 2020 draft with the exact same issues.  What year will it be when we say FINALLY our o-line is good enough to replace Dalton?  2020?  2022?  In the year 2525?


AGAIN - this isn't about replacing Dalton or me even wanting that, it's about admitting that we are going to have a hard time fixing this o-line by the time Dalton is done.

Agree.  And maybe if Williams ends up being what we hope, and Glenn can be "serviceable" , and Price gets better, we might just be a couple of draft choices and maybe, just maybe we get someone in FA next year, we have at least a halfway decent OL.

I would certainly not wait 4 or 5 years to replace Dalton.  It needs to be done.  My whole point this morning, in all the doomsday threads has been that we ARE 0-4, and it's NOT all of his fault.

[*Nately120*]

(10-01-2019, 12:33 PM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: Agree.  And maybe if Williams ends up being what we hope, and Glenn can be "serviceable" , and Price gets better, we might just be a couple of draft choices and maybe, just maybe we get someone in FA next year, we have at least a halfway decent OL.

I would certainly not wait 4 or 5 years to replace Dalton.  It needs to be done.  My whole point this morning, in all the doomsday threads has been that we ARE 0-4, and it's NOT all of his fault.

I know, but this whole "not the only/biggest problem" mantra is just getting less applicable the worse we get.  If we were 2-2 or if we get back to a near respectable W/L record we can get back to focusing on one thing.  As it is now, it's like setting a fire in the living room so your wife will stop focusing on your infidelity.  Trust me, she's got enough time and brainpower to be upset about both things.

When you are 7-9 or so you can focus on your biggest issue. Right now we are looking like a 3-13 team so focusing on the biggest issue is bordering on mere avoidance and/or delusion.