Where's the innovation ?

[*bengalfan74*]

Steve Young asked during halftime, or perhaps after the game and I wonder myself ?

I don't think anyone believed we were just gonna run roughshod over the NFL and go 14-2 and just crush all competition on our way to a Super Bowl win this season.

However, since the Seattle game this offense has seemed stagnant and predictable. How many screens did we run to Mixon and Gio on MNF ? 8 ?

Why not roll the QB out instead of 5 step drop every pass play ? Why not try a damn pitch play to Mixon instead of up the gut ?

Maybe it's just me but I don't remember much motion on MNF ?

Yes the offensive line sucks, nobody denies that. But isn't there anything we can try to at least somewhat mask that ?

[THE PISTONS]

Well, it's hard to innovate when you just copy the Rams playbook.

re: Why the Seattle game was so good offensively - There was no tape of what we do. Now teams see what we do, and stop it...and we don't adjust.

ie You can copy a good playbook, but you have to know when and why to use plays. I'd say that ZT is definitely not some innovative, natural offensive coordinator. I've detailed his failings as OC at UC and Miami. Now our offense looks stale here.

Against the Steelers, Mixon ran the ball well. But, instead of running him early so we get 2nd and 5 or 6 and the defense can't tee off on the rush, they'd pass...getting us in a deep hole where they could blitz. Things like that are what separate coordinators. His feel for the game is lacking.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-02-2019, 12:57 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Steve Young asked during halftime, or perhaps after the game and I wonder myself ?

I don't think anyone believed we were just gonna run roughshod over the NFL and go 14-2 and just crush all competition on our way to a Super Bowl win this season.

However, since the Seattle game this offense has seemed stagnant and predictable. How many screens did we run to Mixon and Gio on MNF ? 8 ?

Why not roll the QB out instead of 5 step drop every pass play ? Why not try a damn pitch play to Mixon instead of up the gut ?

Maybe it's just me but I don't remember much motion on MNF ?

Yes the offensive line sucks, nobody denies that. But isn't there anything we can try to at least somewhat mask that ?

Is it the chicken, or the egg? It's really hard to tell when your oline puts up a historically bad performance. There are a lot of plays that you see ran that don't have time to develop here. Reverse? not on your life.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-02-2019, 01:11 PM)Wyche Wrote: Is it the chicken, or the egg? It's really hard to tell when your oline puts up a historically bad performance. There are a lot of plays that you see ran that don't have time to develop here. Reverse? not on your life.

But, we actually could run the ball.

IF you see you can run the ball, but your line isn't pass blocking...why not run more?

Taylor calls plays like he's playing Madden.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-02-2019, 01:17 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: But, we actually could run the ball.

IF you see you can run the ball, but your line isn't pass blocking...why not run more?

Taylor calls plays like he's playing Madden.

That's a big difference between McVay and Taylor.
McVay actually was the OC for Washington for 3 seasons before becoming a HC. He had proven he can lead an offense.
Taylor was only ever an OC in the NFL for part of 1 season, and it wasn't great. He also wasn't a great OC while at UC. He never proved he could lead an offense.
Same with the actual Bengals OC, Brian Callahan. He's never been an OC before this season.
So basically, this staff has very limited experience calling an offense.

What they do have is 3 guys who have a great deal of experience and success coaching QBs.

[impactplaya]

The lack of tempo and urgency is bothering me.
This offense does better when their is a bit of rhytym
But back to the original Thought..now that Ross is out
It's that much harder to be innovative
You can't implement a WR to fill Ross's skill set
Not Tate not Willis not Erickson.
ZT is going to have to design more multiple TE sets
Change the pass run ratio.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-02-2019, 01:17 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: But, we actually could run the ball.

IF you see you can run the ball, but your line isn't pass blocking...why not run more?

Taylor calls plays like he's playing Madden.

Mixon got some of those yards on his own. However, you're right, we could run, my point was any slow developing play....be it run or pass....has ZERO chance behind these bums. It really limits what you can do. Monday night, aside from a very select few plays, the pass plays HAD to be quick hitters to even get the ball out.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-02-2019, 01:28 PM)impactplaya Wrote: The lack of tempo and urgency is bothering me.
This offense does better when their is a bit of rhytym
But back to the original Thought..now that Ross is out
It's that much harder to be innovative
You can't implement a WR to fill Ross's skill set
Not Tate not Willis not Erickson.
ZT is going to have to design more multiple TE sets
Change the pass run ratio.

Great point about the tempo. Sometimes it can be an equalizer for talent deficiencies. You get a defense on its heels and sucking wind, it absolutely helps your team. Just gotta execute. The only negative is if you're constantly 3 and out. Then it has that effect on your defense.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-02-2019, 01:35 PM)Wyche Wrote: Mixon got some of those yards on his own. However, you're right, we could run, my point was any slow developing play....be it run or pass....has ZERO chance behind these bums. It really limits what you can do. Monday night, aside from a very select few plays, the pass plays HAD to be quick hitters to even get the ball out.

The line sucks. Individually...all except Hopkins.

But, the offense is very predictable. The screens aren't well drawn up. They didn't do TE screens.

Some of those things could keep the defense off balance.

I guess my point is, yes our line is bad, but they were also put in a position to be terrible.

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-02-2019, 01:38 PM)Wyche Wrote: Great point about the tempo. Sometimes it can be an equalizer for talent deficiencies. You get a defense on its heels and sucking wind, it absolutely helps your team. Just gotta execute. The only negative is if you're constantly 3 and out. Then it has that effect on your defense.

Yep, you gotta keep getting 1st downs to truly go up tempo.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-02-2019, 01:38 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The line sucks. Individually...all except Hopkins.

But, the offense is very predictable. The screens aren't well drawn up. They didn't do TE screens.

Some of those things could keep the defense off balance.

I guess my point is, yes our line is bad, but they were also put in a position to be terrible.

There is some questions about the the staff, no doubt. 

Here's the thing, 3 out of 5 projected starters haven't played a down, and 2 won't. Redmond has been unavailable also, not that he's that good, but you get the point. It's an inconvenient truth that the guys behind them are just not good. TEs gotta block, and hell, even they have whiffed! I mean man Pistons, what are you supposed to do when your line has the worst collective performance since 2006! Not much is going to work under those conditions.

[Big Boss]

Remember when the offensive game-plans in preseason were just "scratching the surface?"

I do.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-02-2019, 01:48 PM)Wyche Wrote: There is some questions about the the staff, no doubt. 

Here's the thing, 3 out of 5 projected starters haven't played a down, and 2 won't. Redmond has been unavailable also, not that he's that good, but you get the point. It's an inconvenient truth that the guys behind them are just not good. TEs gotta block, and hell, even they have whiffed! I mean man Pistons, what are you supposed to do when your line has the worst collective performance since 2006! Not much I going to work under those conditions.

The thing is: Boling and Glenn weren't great last year. Glenn had the worst rating of his career. Boling regressed too.

I think me and Shake agree that IF Boling and Glenn were both healthy, that 1 was getting cut.

And re: Boling - They knew BEFORE the draft that he was retiring. Signing a Saffold or drafting a Guard in the 2nd Round...would have helped. Instead...we got a blocking TE.

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-02-2019, 01:49 PM)Big Boss Wrote: Remember when the offensive game-plans in preseason were just "scratching the surface?"

I do.

That's what I'm saying, thank you

I'm not expecting miracles behind this Oline, to say the least. But for crying out loud try something else, roll the QB out, run some two back sets, put in an extra Olinemen, I dunno something ?

And just for the record this wasn't intended to dog ZT out. He's got a long row to hoe.

[CJD]

I know this is going to sound like Dalton bashing, but that's not the intention.

I think Andy Dalton does limit your scheme versatility. He is not mobile in the pocket. He doesn't really take off an run much or well. He can't really throw on the run and his roll out plays don't go as well as you'd hope.

I'm sorry to say that Dalton is a bit of a statue in the pocket these days.

I fear that may be why we run so many plays out of the 11 formation and do standard 3 and 5 step drop backs. It isn't necessarily a lack of creativity on the coaching side, but moreso a lack of versatility at the QB position.

I think Dalton is a fantastic QB who can get you 4000 yards and solid production if you give him a good pocket to throw from. But I think his days of avoiding sacks within the pocket and rolling out/throwing on the run may be at an end.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-02-2019, 01:52 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The thing is: Boling and Glenn weren't great last year. Glenn had the worst rating of his career. Boling regressed too.

I think me and Shake agree that IF Boling and Glenn were both healthy, that 1 was getting cut.

And re: Boling - They knew BEFORE the draft that he was retiring. Signing a Saffold or drafting a Guard in the 2nd Round...would have helped. Instead...we got a blocking TE.

Agree.

That said, if you think Glenn isn't better than Andre Smith, Boling wasn't better than MJ, I'm not sure we're watching the same games.

Did they really know he was retiring before the draft? I thought that was announced during camp.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-02-2019, 01:56 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I know this is going to sound like Dalton bashing, but that's not the intention.

I think Andy Dalton does limit your scheme versatility. He is not mobile in the pocket. He doesn't really take off an run much or well. He can't really throw on the run and his roll out plays don't go as well as you'd hope.

I'm sorry to say that Dalton is a bit of a statue in the pocket these days.

I fear that may be why we run so many plays out of the 11 formation and do standard 3 and 5 step drop backs. It isn't necessarily a lack of creativity on the coaching side, but moreso a lack of versatility at the QB position.

I think Dalton is a fantastic QB who can get you 4000 yards and solid production if you give him a good pocket to throw from. But I think his days of avoiding sacks within the pocket and rolling out/throwing on the run may be at an end.

I would agree with a lot of this. And....when you get protect a pocket QB, this is what you get. See Palmer, Carson.

This is literally the worst oline I've seen play, and I'm a Florida State fan.

[*bengalfan74*]

Didn't the Steelers run the pistol or whatever on MNF, something out of their wheelhouse ? With that RB taking the snap out of the shotgun QB position ?

My point is doing something besides drop AD back in a 5 step drop to get killed every play !

[impactplaya]

(10-02-2019, 01:38 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The line sucks. Individually...all except Hopkins.

But, the offense is very predictable. The screens aren't well drawn up. They didn't do TE screens.

Some of those things could keep the defense off balance.

I guess my point is, yes our line is bad, but they were also put in a position to be terrible.

Funny thing....we saw a TE screen in preseason to Uzomah.
It went for 30 35 yards. 
I'm seeing a lot of predictable routes from the WRs.
Not a lot of out and ups...stop and go's...or even a simple pivot route toward the sidelines. 
Problem is too....Dalton can't even hit a simple drag route 
I've seen Ross and Tate reach behind their heads to even 
Get a hand on the ball.
This passing game has so limitations 
Can't run the ball to execute play action. 
Can't pass block vs 4 man fronts
Dalton wets the bed when the pocket collapses.

[Big Boss]

All I know is I'm seeing a lot of screen passes to the LOS and it's pissing me off.