Marvin and the Ravens.

[Brownshoe]

(09-23-2015, 03:06 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Holy crap, so much wrong in one post, where to start.

First, why would I be butt-hurt the Bengals are 4-2 against the Ravens in the last 3 years?  Am I a Ravens fan?  Then, you say the past is irrelevant, and yet you mention Marvin Lewis has a winning record against the Ravens; a fact that is only true when you count what happened from 2003-2010, AKA the irrelevant past.  Is the past relevant or not?

So let's break down the stats.

Marvin is 14-10 against the Ravens, but the past is irrelevant, so he is now 4-4 against the Ravens, but 2011 doesn't count, so he is now 4-2 against the Ravens.  So Marvin Lewis is 14-10 against the Ravens, but really 4-2 against the Ravens when his record is viewed through your chosen filters?  Is that how we're going to look at this?

Just change the entire thread.  

YOU:  Marvin is 4-2 against the Ravens!!
Other Person:  Wait, hasn't Marvin Lewis coached against the Ravens 24 times?
YOU:  SHUT UP!!!!!

I don't know why you would be butthurt you tell me.

Big picture for Marvin vs the Ravens = 14-10
Recent years for Marvin vs the Ravens = 4-2 or 3-1 or 2-0
I don't know why your having such a hard time comprehending that it's two different things.

[Brownshoe]

(09-23-2015, 03:13 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I might agree with you if I wasn't sure you use those 9 wins in that 2011 season when discussing Daton's winning record.  I have nothing against you, we both want the same team to win it all, but I sometimes wonder if you are unaware at how absurdly selective you are or if you think people are just too stupid to see it.

Take away Daltons record in 2011 for all I care. All that will do is make him look better.

[*Nately120*]

(09-23-2015, 03:13 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: I don't know why you would be butthurt you tell me.

Big picture for Marvin vs the Ravens = 14-10
Recent years for Marvin vs the Ravens = 4-2 or 3-1 or 2-0
I don't know why your having such a hard time comprehending that it's two different things.

Of course it's two different things.  I'm the one who pointed out Marvin's record WITH Carson Palmer and WITHOUT him are two very different things.  Let's wait until Marvin can top .500 without Carson before we declare HIM to be the reason we have a winning record against the Ravens.

Or not.  Let's just make a bunch of excuses and fudge the numbers until we come up with a figure that fits our agenda!

[Brownshoe]

(09-23-2015, 03:15 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Of course it's two different things.  I'm the one who pointed out Marvin's record WITH Carson Palmer and WITHOUT him are two very different things.  Let's wait until Marvin can top .500 without Carson before we declare HIM to be the reason we have a winning record against the Ravens.

Or not.  Let's just make a bunch of excuses and fudge the numbers until we come up with a figure that fits our agenda!

Yeah, because making Carson look better isn't your agenda.

[*Nately120*]

(09-23-2015, 03:14 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Take away Daltons record in 2011 for all I care. All that will do is make him look better.

I'm not the one here who is taking away numbers and statistics because it fits my agenda so I'm not "taking away" anything.

[*Nately120*]

(09-23-2015, 03:16 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Yeah, because making Carson look better isn't your agenda.

I'm saying Marvin is 9-4 against the Ravens with Carson and 5-6 against the Ravens without him.  That is a statement of fact and you can draw whatever conclusions you like.  I believe the numbers show a decent correlation between wins and Carson being the QB, that's all.  I'm not taking wins away from Dalton, or saying certain losses of Carson's don't matter, I'm just stating the numbers.

WHEN Marvin Lewis goes above .500 with Dalton as his QB (something he SHOULD do this week) THEN the data will show Marvin and Dalton also have a winning record against the Ravens.  Is this rocket science to you?

I'm not saying Carson is better than Dalton. I'm not saying Carson was better than Dalton. I'm not saying Carson should be the Bengals QB. I'm not saying Marvin Lewis doesn't have a winning record against the Ravens. All I did was dissect the data a bit to show a skew towards the old irrelevant past and you flipped balls over it. Mellow out.

[djs7685]

(09-23-2015, 03:10 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Who has ever said that 4 years ago was recent when talking about sports? In 2011 it was a rebuilding year. If you bring it back two years his win % even goes up more (3-1). The whole thread is talking about Marvin vs the Ravens, so obviously that's the big picture.

I don't know, who has ever picked exactly 3 years? You HAVE to realize that you go out of your way to be as extremely pro-Andy in everything you ever say on here.

Let's look like rational Bengals fans and not Andy Dalton fans for a minute. You don't have to freak the **** out every time someone points out a factual statistic that doesn't make Andy look like a God.

Nately didn't even say anything to bash Andy and the same 2 guys as always come in and lose their minds over it.

[*Nately120*]

I'm not even bashing Andy. I'm just saying that Marvin Lewis has yet to show that he has a winning record against the Ravens sans Palmer, that's all. This year I expect the Bengals to sweep them and then he will be 6-4 against them and THEN we can start to wonder if it is truly Marvin who has the Ravens' number.

[Brownshoe]

It doesn't matter. We have been beating the Ravens ass the last few years. That's my point. It's not like we have split with them every year and that's why we're 4-4. It's a good thing to break down how we got to that record. Saying we're 4-4 the last 4 years makes it seems that we don't play as good as we actually do against the Ravens.

[*Nately120*]

(09-23-2015, 03:31 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Saying we're 4-4 the last 4 years makes it seems that we don't play as good as we actually do against the Ravens.

No, being 4-4 against the Ravens makes it seem that we don't play as well as we actually do against the Ravens.  When we sweep them this year then we can start up the talk about owning them again.  Because at that point we will.  No later, no sooner.

End Scene

[Brownshoe]

(09-23-2015, 03:35 PM)Nately120 Wrote: No, being 4-4 against the Ravens makes it seem that we don't play as well as we actually do against the Ravens.  When we sweep them this year then we can start up the talk about owning them again.  Because at that point we will.  No later, no sooner.

End Scene

It still doesn't change the fact that recently we have been killing them. The last two years we played them we are 3-1 against them, and the one lost that we did have it went to overtime, so it was VERY close. You have to get games from 4 years ago when the team had very little offensive weapons, and was rebuilding with a rookie QB, and rookie WR for it to look like they have been competitive with us.

[*Nately120*]

(09-23-2015, 03:39 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: It still doesn't change the fact that recently we have been killing them.

There, just stop after this first sentence.  More facts and less concessions and excuses makes for a more compelling argument.

[Brownshoe]

(09-23-2015, 03:43 PM)Nately120 Wrote: There, just stop after this first sentence.  More facts and less concessions and excuses makes for a more compelling argument.

All I use is facts, you just ignore them.

[WhoDeyWho]

(09-23-2015, 02:49 PM)Nately120 Wrote: It is, but there is a pretty significant skew of wins towards an era that is no longer relevant.  We're looking at data that (for the time being) indicates Carson Palmer may have been more of the reason we beat the Ravens so often during Marvin's tenure than Marvin himself.  When the Bengals win the next 5 games against the Ravens and both QBs go 9-4 against the Ravens it will be more attributable to Marvin.  It's simple stuff people, mellow out.

The last 2 years he is 3-1 against the Ravens.  

Where was Carson at for those games?  

[*Nately120*]

(09-23-2015, 03:45 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: All I use is facts, you just ignore them.

What am I ignoring?  Saying 2011 doesn't count isn't a fact.  NFL seasons count.  Doesn't matter if your QB is a rookie, gets injured, is a goat, or the ball isn't inflated.

[Brownshoe]

(09-23-2015, 03:46 PM)Nately120 Wrote: What am I ignoring?  Saying 2011 doesn't count isn't a fact.  NFL seasons count.  Doesn't matter if your QB is a rookie, gets injured, is a goat, or the ball isn't inflated.

The fact that you have to go back 4 years to prove your point.

[*Nately120*]

(09-23-2015, 03:45 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: The last 2 years he is 3-1 against the Ravens.  

Where was Carson at for those games?  

Either with the Arizona Cardinals or rehabbing his knee, based upon the dates.  Are all your questions going to be this easy?

[*Nately120*]

(09-23-2015, 03:47 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: The fact that you have to go back 4 years to prove your point.

What point am I "proving?"  The first post of this thread says Marvin is 14-10 against the Ravens and I pointed out that he hasn't been as successful during the Dalton era as he was in the Palmer era.  I'm going back to 2003 because the OP stated statistics from 2003-2014.  You are free to start your own thread about the Ravens/Bengals games of the past 3 years if you think discussing stats from 4+ years ago is absurd.

[*Nately120*]

Here, you want to hear what your biased crap sounds like?

Carson Palmer hasn't lost an NFL game since the 2013 NFL season. That is better than Dalton, Rodgers, Brady, Manning, Pig Ben, Wilson, Brees, blah blah b lah blah blah so on and so forth. Now that is bias!

[Brownshoe]

(09-23-2015, 03:51 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Here, you want to hear what your biased crap sounds like?  

Carson Palmer hasn't lost an NFL game since the 2013 NFL season.  That is better than Dalton, Rodgers, Brady, Manning, Pig Ben, Wilson, Brees, blah blah b lah blah blah so on and so forth.  Now that is bias!

Sounds to me that Palmer has only won 8 games since 2013. Man he must suck.