Marvin and the Ravens.

[fredtoast]

Marvin has won 3 in a row against his old team, and has an overall record of 14-10 head-to-head with the Ravens.

This weekend is a chance to really put a dent in the Ravens season. I know it is early, but a loss at home to drop to 0-3 would be brutal.

[*Nately120*]

I think we're going to put the Ravens in a big ol' season-killing hole this week BUT Marvin is 9-4 against the Ravens with Palmer and 4-5 without (4-4 with Dalton, and 0-1 with Fitz) so it's hard to definitively say Marvin is the Raven-killer when he's just .500 against them 2011 onward.

[Brownshoe]

(09-23-2015, 02:35 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I think we're going to put the Ravens in a big ol' season-killing hole this week BUT Marvin is 9-4 against the Ravens with Palmer and 4-5 without (4-4 with Dalton, and 0-1 with Fitz) so it's hard to definitively say Marvin is the Raven-killer when he's just .500 against them 2011 onward.

We have won the last 4 out of 5 games against the Ravens.

[*Nately120*]

(09-23-2015, 02:37 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: We have won the last 4 out of 5 games against the Ravens.

This changes what I said, how?

[WhoDeyWho]

(09-23-2015, 02:35 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I think we're going to put the Ravens in a big ol' season-killing hole this week BUT Marvin is 9-4 against the Ravens with Palmer and 4-5 without (4-4 with Dalton, and 0-1 with Fitz) so it's hard to definitively say Marvin is the Raven-killer when he's just .500 against them 2011 onward.

Since 2014, Marvin Lewis with Andy Dalton are 2-0 against them.  

[Brownshoe]

(09-23-2015, 02:37 PM)Nately120 Wrote: This changes what I said, how?

Because it was early in Dalton's Career when he was losing to the Ravens. Plus the team is completely different from the 2012 team.

[*Nately120*]

(09-23-2015, 02:38 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Because it was early in Dalton's Career when he was losing to the Ravens. Plus the team is completely different from the 2012 team.

This entire thread is based around Marvin Lewis' HISTORY against the Ravens.  Fred brought up his record from 2003-2014, so why are we supposed to just look at the last 2 years? If Fred would have said "Marvin is 3-0 against the Ravens in their last 3 games" I wouldn't have made the point I did.

[Brownshoe]

(09-23-2015, 02:40 PM)Nately120 Wrote: This entire thread is based around Marvin Lewis' HISTORY against the Ravens.  Fred brought up his record from 2003-2014, so why are we supposed to just look at the last 2 years?  If Fred would have said "Marvin is 3-0 against the Ravens in their last 3 games" I wouldn't have made the point I did.

Yes, and Marvins history against the Ravens is a winning one. You brought up a completely different point, so I was commenting on that point.

[WhoDeyWho]

(09-23-2015, 02:40 PM)Nately120 Wrote: This entire thread is based around Marvin Lewis' HISTORY against the Ravens.  Fred brought up his record from 2003-2014, so why are we supposed to just look at the last 2 years?  If Fred would have said "Marvin is 3-0 against the Ravens in their last 3 games" I wouldn't have made the point I did.

I thought his point was Marvin during his career as Bengals coach has had relative success against them, so Sunday is a great opportunity to eliminate one of our competitors from contention in the AFC North.  

[*Nately120*]

(09-23-2015, 02:43 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Yes, and Marvins history against the Ravens is a winning one. You brought up a completely different point, so I was commenting on that point.

My point is:

Marvin and Carson were 9-4 against the Ravens
Mavin and Dalton are 4-4 against the Ravens

The only reason (at the moment) Marvin has a winning record against the Ravens at the moment is because we are considering teams from over 4 seasons ago.  I fully believe the Bengals will sweep the Ravens this season and THEN Marvin and Dalton will have a winning record against them.  What is the big deal?  Why are you getting so defensive?  Oh, wait.

[*Nately120*]

(09-23-2015, 02:43 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: I thought his point was Marvin during his career as Bengals coach has had relative success against them, so Sunday is a great opportunity to eliminate one of our competitors from contention in the AFC North.  

It is, but there is a pretty significant skew of wins towards an era that is no longer relevant.  We're looking at data that (for the time being) indicates Carson Palmer may have been more of the reason we beat the Ravens so often during Marvin's tenure than Marvin himself.  When the Bengals win the next 5 games against the Ravens and both QBs go 9-4 against the Ravens it will be more attributable to Marvin.  It's simple stuff people, mellow out.

[Brownshoe]

(09-23-2015, 02:47 PM)Nately120 Wrote: My point is:

Marvin and Carson were 9-4 against the Ravens
Mavin and Dalton are 4-4 against the Ravens

The only reason (at the moment) Marvin has a winning record against the Ravens at the moment is because we are considering teams from over 4 seasons ago.  I fully believe the Bengals will sweep the Ravens this season and THEN Marvin and Dalton will have a winning record against them.  What is the big deal?  Why are you getting so defensive?  Oh, wait.

It still doesn't change the fact that in the last 3 years we are 4-2 with the Ravens. You're the one who wants to use the rookie year of Dalton when the team was in rebuild mode.

[*Nately120*]

(09-23-2015, 02:50 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: It still doesn't change the fact that in the last 3 years we are 4-2 with the Ravens. You're the one who wants to use the rookie year of Dalton when the team was in rebuild mode.

Oh excuse me, I was under the impression that the 2011 NFL season counted (I'll remember this the next time you point out how many regular season wins Dalton has. Better take those 9 away because that season doesn't count!).  Ok, so Marvin is 14-2 against the Ravens because 2011 didn't count, because teams with rookie QBs usually win 0 games the game with Fitz didn't count, the loss in 2010 when the team was crap and gave up didn't count, 2 games didn't count because Chad Johnson had a hangnail, and the other 2 losses Dalton had didn't count because the wind was in his eyes and/or Gresham had 17 false starts.

[Brownshoe]

(09-23-2015, 02:52 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Oh excuse me, I was under the impression that the 2011 NFL season counted (I'll remember this the next time you point out how many regular season wins Dalton has.  Better take those 9 away because that season doesn't count!).  Ok, so Marvin is 14-2 against the Ravens because 2011 didn't count, because teams with rookie QBs usually win 0 games the game with Fitz didn't count, the loss in 2010 when the team was crap and gave up didn't count, 2 games didn't count because Chad Johnson had a hangnail, and the other 2 losses Dalton had didn't count because the wind was in his eyes and/or Gresham had 17 false starts.

The 2011 season counts, but it's irrelevant to what has happened recently, and if you want to look at the big picture for Marvin then he still has a winning record against the Ravens. Stop getting so butthurt that Marvin and Dalton are 4-2 against them the last 3 years.

[konighaus]

all this talk but it is 2015 now. New season and the past does not matter but with Suggs not Sugging up the middle, Jeremy and Gio should look GOOD!

[djs7685]

(09-23-2015, 02:59 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: The 2011 season counts, but it's irrelevant to what has happened recently, and if you want to look at the big picture for Marvin then he still has a winning record against the Ravens. Stop getting so butthurt that Marvin and Dalton are 4-2 against them the last 3 years.

So "recent" is exactly 3 years, and "the big picture" is Marvin's career as HC, and there's no possible way that it would make sense to look at ANYTHING else in between?

Gee, I wonder why?

[*Nately120*]

(09-23-2015, 02:59 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: The 2011 season counts, but it's irrelevant to what has happened recently, and if you want to look at the big picture for Marvin then he still has a winning record against the Ravens. Stop getting so butthurt that Marvin and Dalton are 4-2 against them the last 3 years.

Holy crap, so much wrong in one post, where to start.

First, why would I be butt-hurt the Bengals are 4-2 against the Ravens in the last 3 years?  Am I a Ravens fan?  Then, you say the past is irrelevant, and yet you mention Marvin Lewis has a winning record against the Ravens; a fact that is only true when you count what happened from 2003-2010, AKA the irrelevant past.  Is the past relevant or not?

So let's break down the stats.

Marvin is 14-10 against the Ravens, but the past is irrelevant, so he is now 4-4 against the Ravens, but 2011 doesn't count, so he is now 4-2 against the Ravens.  So Marvin Lewis is 14-10 against the Ravens, but really 4-2 against the Ravens when his record is viewed through your chosen filters?  Is that how we're going to look at this?

Just change the entire thread.  

YOU:  Marvin is 4-2 against the Ravens!!
Other Person:  Wait, hasn't Marvin Lewis coached against the Ravens 24 times?
YOU:  SHUT UP!!!!!

[*Nately120*]

(09-23-2015, 03:04 PM)konighaus Wrote: all this talk but it is 2015 now.  New season and the past does not matter but with Suggs not Sugging up the middle,  Jeremy and Gio should look GOOD!

Ok, have it your way.  Marvin is 0-0 against the Ravens!

[Brownshoe]

(09-23-2015, 03:05 PM)djs7685 Wrote: So "recent" is exactly 3 years, and "the big picture" is Marvin's career as HC, and there's no possible way that it would make sense to look at ANYTHING else in between?

Gee, I wonder why?

Who has ever said that 4 years ago was recent when talking about sports? In 2011 it was a rebuilding year. If you bring it back two years his win % even goes up more (3-1). The whole thread is talking about Marvin vs the Ravens, so obviously that's the big picture.

[*Nately120*]

(09-23-2015, 03:10 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Who has ever said that 4 years ago was recent when talking about sports? In 2011 it was a rebuilding year. If you bring it back two years his win % even goes up more (3-1). The whole thread is talking about Marvin vs the Ravens, so obviously that's the big picture.

I might agree with you if I wasn't sure you use those 9 wins in that 2011 season when discussing Daton's winning record.  I have nothing against you, we both want the same team to win it all, but I sometimes wonder if you are unaware at how absurdly selective you are or if you think people are just too stupid to see it.