Plain and simple

[Always a Bengal]

Part of the reason for the  Bengals poor performance  is that Zac Taylor is being out coached. This guy is not ready to be a head coach in the NFL right now.,  He is in over his head now.

[jj22]

Yea. As to be expected (or should have been as the good fortunes of snagging the next SM just doesn't happen for the Bengals).

He didn't get much help last offseason, and we might be stuck in those 3 year contract players for another year, which doesn't bode well going into 2020. I'm going to give him and the staff a full offseason before I make a call.

But with everyone wondering if MB and co can do it without Marvin or if we'd slide back into the lost decade it's not looking good.

[THE PISTONS]

The coaching is certainly a big part of the equation.

[HarleyDog]

In 1960, Tom Landry started his coaching career at 0-11-1 (2 SB wins)
In 1989, Jimmy Johnson started his coaching career at 1-15. (2 SB wins)
In 1991, Bill Belichick started his coaching career. Went 6-10. (6 SB Championships)
In 1999, Andy Reid started his career and went 5-11 (1 NFC Championship - No SB's but has assembled an awesome team in KC).

I can list plenty more I'm sure, but I think my point is clear enough that you can't judge a coach by 4 games in the 1st year of his coaching career. Specially when the team he inherited was not in great shape. Sure we have talented 2-3 year rookies, but they didn't get the experience they needed because the previous coach preferred seniority over talent most of the time (not in all cases).

Although my homerism leaned me towards a 10-6 record prediction, that doesn't mean since he's failing at meeting my first expectations he needs to go. If we run him out of town, we could easily find ourselves being haunted like Cleveland fans have been since they did that to BB and he wen't to NE and has tore up the NFL since. ZT is football smart. Let him learn even further from his mistakes that rookie coaches make. If we get into the 2-3rd year and he has not progressed? Then it's time to go, but not until then.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-03-2019, 07:42 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: In 1960, Tom Landry started his coaching career at 0-11-1 (2 SB wins)
In 1989, Jimmy Johnson started his coaching career at 1-15. (2 SB wins)
In 1991, Bill Belichick started his coaching career. Went 6-10. (6 SB Championships)
In 1999, Andy Reid started his career and went 5-11 (1 NFC Championship - No SB's but has assembled an awesome team in KC).

I can list plenty more I'm sure, but I think my point is clear enough that you can't judge a coach by 4 games in the 1st year of his coaching career. Specially when the team he inherited was not in great shape. Sure we have talented 2-3 year rookies, but they didn't get the experience they needed because the previous coach preferred seniority over talent most of the time (not in all cases).

Although my homerism leaned me towards a 10-6 record prediction, that doesn't mean since he's failing at meeting my first expectations he needs to go. If we run him out of town, we could easily find ourselves being haunted like Cleveland fans have been since they did that to BB and he wen't to NE and has tore up the NFL since. ZT is football smart. Let him learn even further from his mistakes that rookie coaches make. If we get into the 2-3rd year and he has not progressed? Then it's time to go, but not until then.

Not to mention, our own Sam Wyche started out 0-5.

[HarleyDog]

(10-04-2019, 06:46 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Not to mention, our own Sam Wyche started out 0-5.

Yes. Another good example.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-04-2019, 07:17 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Yes. Another good example.

The thing is Harley, our fans should remember this.... we've already seen it. Yet, some are already on the ledge. It's actually kinda funny.....

[THE PISTONS]

(10-04-2019, 07:23 AM)Wyche Wrote: The thing is Harley, our fans should remember this.... we've already seen it. Yet, some are already on the ledge. It's actually kinda funny.....

The thing is, none of those guys worked for an Owner/GM who hasn't won a playoff game in 28+ years that has a team with 2 people listed on the website as Scouts (with 2 more Scouting Directors).

THAT'S the real question.

IF this were a coach of say a team like Pittsburgh...then you probably don't worry as much because they've shown they can rebuild because they have good management.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-04-2019, 09:39 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The thing is, none of those guys worked for an Owner/GM who hasn't won a playoff game in 28+ years that has a team with 2 people listed on the website as Scouts (with 2 more Scouting Directors).

THAT'S the real question.

IF this were a coach of say a team like Pittsburgh...then you probably don't worry as much because they've shown they can rebuild because they have good management.

No, but Wyche did coach here.....and started 0-5.

[*Nately120*]

(10-04-2019, 09:39 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The thing is, none of those guys worked for an Owner/GM who hasn't won a playoff game in 28+ years that has a team with 2 people listed on the website as Scouts (with 2 more Scouting Directors).

THAT'S the real question.

IF this were a coach of say a team like Pittsburgh...then you probably don't worry as much because they've shown they can rebuild because they have good management.

That's how I see it, too.  Was it 2014 the Steelers started 0-4 and finished the year 8-8?  How much faith do we have in that happening here?  The double whammy in play here is that we have an 0-4 HC who is playing with a team assembled by an owner known for apathy if not outright failure.  Going 0-4 or worse is bad, but it can be fixed if you learn from it and make adjustments.

I just expect us to go into 2020 with the same "injuries and luck killed our promising season, so we're good just standing pat" mantra that we had going into this year.  

[THE PISTONS]

(10-04-2019, 09:54 AM)Wyche Wrote: No, but Wyche did coach here.....and started 0-5.

And WHO fired him?

No doubt that an 0-5 start isn't some sort of death sentence for some coaches.

It's just, winning with the way the Bengals are managed is harder.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-04-2019, 07:23 AM)Wyche Wrote: The thing is Harley, our fans should remember this.... we've already seen it. Yet, some are already on the ledge. It's actually kinda funny.....

It's not really about Zac Taylor but the past decade. 
After years of being on that plateau, the fans don't want to see a decline again. The decline has been happening for three years and is continuing. Patience is running out for most fans.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-04-2019, 02:24 PM)ochocincos Wrote: It's not really about Zac Taylor but the past decade. 
After years of being on that plateau, the fans don't want to see a decline again. The decline has been happening for three years and is continuing. Patience is running out for most fans.

True. And a string of bad drafts and refusing to use free agency is a big part of it.

[Tomkat]

(10-04-2019, 02:24 PM)ochocincos Wrote: It's not really about Zac Taylor but the past decade. 
After years of being on that plateau, the fans don't want to see a decline again. The decline has been happening for three years and is continuing. Patience is running out for most fans.

Yep, I said it in another thread... I CANNOT go through ANOTHER LOST DECADE...

[*ochocincos*]

(10-04-2019, 02:29 PM)Tomkat Wrote: Yep, I said it in another thread... I CANNOT go through ANOTHER LOST DECADE...

Don't forget too that the "lost decade" was 20 years ago. A whole new generation of fans have come who never went through that and won't go through that at all. They'll just switch fandom to another team or sport until the Bengals become relevant again.

[Hammerstripes]

I'm really going to give him a pass this year. You can't judge a coach when you are missing the following guys:

LT1
LT2
LG1
WR1

AND when you have the following starting for your team:

RT32

[*Nately120*]

(10-04-2019, 02:40 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I'm really going to give him a pass this year.  You can't judge a coach when you are missing the following guys:

LT1
LT2
LG1
WR1

AND when you have the following starting for your team:

RT32

That's a reasonable notion, but the issue I have is that we have spent the past 3 and going on 4 losing seasons hearing how we can't judge this and can't judge that.

Can't judge Ross, he's playing for bad coaches
Can't judge Dalton, he's got a terrible o line
Can't judge 2018, too many injures
Can't judge 2019, too many injuries

I guess we're just supposed to sit here for years at time and just shrug and say "With all the crap that's gone on for the past 4 years, we can't even attempt to fathom what is going on."  Meanwhile real NFL games are happening and other teams are having winning seasons and winning playoff games and championships.

I get it, the excuses are real and it sucks but this turning into the 2nd year in a row where all we can do is just roll into the the next year and hope nothing goes wrong so we can finally start to judge this and that.  Though I've noticed we are selective in who we are allowed to judge and who we aren't. You didn't hear many people say we couldn't judge Driskel in 2018 because Marvin/injuries/o-line/Lazor etc.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-04-2019, 09:54 AM)Wyche Wrote: No, but Wyche did coach here.....and started 0-5.

Marvin Lewis started 1-4 and ended up going 8-8 in his first season ... for the Bengals .. with Mike Brown as GM.

[RASCAL]

(10-03-2019, 06:45 PM)Always a Bengal Wrote: Part of the reason for the  Bengals poor performance  is that Zac Taylor is being out coached. This guy is not ready to be a head coach in the NFL right now.,  He is in over his head now.

outcoached my ass! Zac has nothing to work with in talent and everybody wants to blame the coach. Unfortunately for Zac, he has the possibility of being canned because of lack of wins. This team is not and has NOT been a winner of anything!!! Until this miser owner dies and relinquishes this power over the Bengals organization, this team is DOOMED!!!

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-04-2019, 03:59 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Marvin Lewis started 1-4 and ended up going 8-8 in his first season ... for the Bengals .. with Mike Brown as GM.

Good point.