A Clear Path Forward - 2019-2020

[Aquapod770]

If we got a 2nd rounder (let alone first) for Dre Kirkpatrick I'd literally shit my pants.

[*Synric*]

Trey Hopkins at 12mil for 3 years is never going to happen. The entire NFL is hurting for offensive linemen and Trey has proven he can be a good pivot. I'm guessing he will get around 10mil a year.

Same for Andrew Billings I'm guessing closer to 9mil a year for him.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

New Orleans doesn't have a 1st round pick to give tho....

[Okeana]

(10-10-2019, 04:23 PM)Synric Wrote: Trey Hopkins at 12mil for 3 years is never going to happen. The entire NFL is hurting for offensive linemen and Trey has proven he can be a good pivot. I'm guessing he will get around 10mil a year.

Same for Andrew Billings I'm guessing closer to 9mil a year for him.

No way Hopkins gets 10 mil a year you realize that he would be top 3 centers in terms of pay. For a career backup with one good season that’s ridiculous. I did underpay him but he’s not making more than 8.

Billings is in the same boat and while he’s performing well for 1 year his stats are not near other top 1 tech or nt. 6 tops for him maybe he does an incentive based two year

[Okeana]

(10-10-2019, 04:39 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: New Orleans doesn't have a 1st round pick to give tho....

Ultimately why I put him to Buffalo but yeah I’m not perfect

[*Synric*]

(10-10-2019, 04:42 PM)Okeana Wrote: No way Hopkins gets 10 mil a year you realize that he would be top 3 centers in terms of pay.  For a career backup with one good season that’s ridiculous.  I did underpay him but he’s not making more than 8.  

Billings is in the same boat and while he’s performing well for 1 year his stats are not near other top 1 tech or nt.  6 tops for him maybe he does an incentive based two year

Hopkins will make around 10mil a year. Teams overpay for Offensive linemen because the league is hurting for good players. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-10-2019, 04:44 PM)Okeana Wrote: Ultimately why I put him to Buffalo but yeah I’m not perfect

Gotcha, and Buffalo could use him. I only knew that because I just read an article on possible Green destinations and the Saints were mentioned to be fair. Article noted it would take some maneuvering on their part to make it happen.

[Jason_NC]

(10-10-2019, 01:31 PM)Okeana Wrote: Trades

Geno Atkins - Seattle - 1st round pick - Seattle has a legit chance to make the Superbowl this year and they have a pretty stout defensive line.  Atkins would give them the inside pressure they need.

AJ Green - Saints - 1st round pick -  With Drew brees coming back and a possible run still on the horizon this is a perfect landing spot and would net the Bengals their best chance to get a higher 1st round pick.  Buffalo and NE also strong contenders

Dre Kirkpatrick - likely 2nd round pick possible first - Many playoff-caliber teams need another CB and Kirkpatrick could garner us some value.  Likely landing spots would be the 49rs, Bears, Bucs, chiefs, cowboys, and many more.


Jadeveon Clowney - EDGE - 6 years $132,000,000 -  Clowney is about that money and the Bengals need a guy with tread on the tires that can play out his contract.  Would he come to Cincinnati only time will tell, but this would be a move to sell tickets.

Draft Picks
1st round - # 3 , 22, 27, 31
2nd round - #35
3rd round - # 67
4th round - # 99 , 118
5rd- 7th rd - standard

Draft predictions
3rd overall CIN - Andrew Thomas OT Georgia - Projects to be an All-Pro LT and best Offensive lineman in the class, Jonah Williams will kick inside LG with the ability to play LT if Thomas gets hurt.  Not a lot of teams need QB in this class and we can find guys later in the draft if they fall to us.  We Trade a 5th round pick in 2021 to Miami to get Fitzmagic for a year stop gap to develop young QB's.

31st Overall - Jeffery Okudah - CB - OSU - Deep Class of CB's and Okudah is one of the top guys, Could see him being an upgrade to kirkpatrick day one.  Five games into the season he already has 17 tackles, 1 FF, and 3 Interceptions.

67th overall - Jalen Hurts - QB - OKLAHOMA - I finally drafted a QB and this guy has all the potential to be a starter in the NFL which is great value in the 3rd round.  Could possibly trade back into the 2nd round to get him if our scouts love him.  Oklahoma is producing QB's and while he's obviously not the best if he continues to improve he is a guy we can work with.  

Personally, AJ and Geno are not on my trade block unless they specifically ask to leave.  If they want out they have earned that right, but they are  Hall of Fame types and I want them to be career Bengals.  Call me foolish or sentimental, but that's my thought.

Why would anyone give us more than a 3 for Dre?  He's not that good.  

Clowney?  Really?  

I like the first pick.

Okudah will not last that that long.  I've seen some scouts that have him higher than Young.  I think that's wrong, but I really don't see him out of the top 12.

Hard to judge Hurts right now, but I don't see him lasting that long, especially if he continues to play the way he has so far.

[*jason*]

(10-10-2019, 03:04 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: You are not getting a first RD pick for Geno or AJ + you're not going to get a second for Dre.

Not getting a 1st for any of them...

[grampahol]

The path forward?  C'mon..it's the same path it's been since Paul Brown left the living.. Wait for Mikey to join him in wormfoodville..

[Hammerstripes]

(10-10-2019, 03:27 PM)Okeana Wrote: Keep in mind that getting a 2nd or even 3rd round pick in some of these cases will land you day 1 starters.  Unloading aging talent midseason is the best use of resources; you clear cap for free agency and gain capital in draft picks.  None of these guys are going to take this team to a Superbowl and holding onto trade capital leaves you with a failing team and high-cost old players.

[PV Bengal]

(10-10-2019, 09:05 PM)jason Wrote: Not getting a 1st for any of them...

Regardless, we need to consider the value of the pick we'd receive.

For instance, a 1st round pick from the Saints for AJ is likely to be 28 - 32 ... in other words, basically an early 2nd rounder.

The simple facts are that we don't have a player to trade to a team that is likely to finish in the top 1/2 of the draft order.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

The whole plan presented on this thread is based on our GM being Danny Ainge not Mike Brown.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-10-2019, 01:31 PM)Okeana Wrote: This is a quick first glance summary of some of the moves I would like to see in 2019 heading into 2020.  No need to respond with the typical " This will never happen " or "Not with Mike Brown" responses.  We all know the situation, but let's discuss a clear path moving forward.

Coaching - Because I don't know the coaching situation heading into next year or the year after I tried to acquire scheme diverse players.  Drafting has been a real issue and continues to be after what should be considered a pretty terrible 2019 draft.  Regardless if its the coaching staff or the higher-ups these issues need to be fixed if the team has any future.  If Taylor remains coach after this year I cannot see the coordinators staying on board because someone's head has to roll.

Trades

Geno Atkins - Seattle - 1st round pick - Seattle has a legit chance to make the Superbowl this year and they have a pretty stout defensive line.  Atkins would give them the inside pressure they need.

AJ Green - Saints - 1st round pick -  With Drew brees coming back and a possible run still on the horizon this is a perfect landing spot and would net the Bengals their best chance to get a higher 1st round pick.  Buffalo and NE also strong contenders

Dre Kirkpatrick - likely 2nd round pick possible first - Many playoff-caliber teams need another CB and Kirkpatrick could garner us some value.  Likely landing spots would be the 49rs, Bears, Bucs, chiefs, cowboys, and many more.

Best Trade Value-  
Green( Buffalo ) Estimated value 1st - 22nd pick overall / 4th or 5th round kicker ( fleecing to keep away from NE )
Atkins( Seattle ) Est Value 1st - 27th pick overall
Kirkpatrick ( KC ) Est value 1st - 31st pick overall is possible however most likely your talking a 2nd or 3rd round pick for kirkpatrick, but always hoping for the best value.

all these teams have a chance at Superbowl and cap space to cover the players
* Carlos Dunlap could also be a trade value target if its full rebuild

Free Agents -

Resign

Andrew Billings - 15 mil - 3 years
Trey Hopkins - 12 mil - 3 years

Cap Space after cuts/trades/resign - $89,939,405

Corey Littleton  - LB - 5 year $55,000,000  
Rams have a lot of needs coming out of the 2019 season and very little cap space.  He would be a great fit to replace preston brown as MLB and fall into line with the new age of Linebackers being great in coverage and ability to force fumbles.  

Neville Hewitt - LB - 2 year - $14,000,000 with incentives - So far he's a one year star if he continues to play at this level.  Bring him in on a 1 - 2-year deal to play at WILL and rush the QB.

Jadeveon Clowney - EDGE - 6 years $132,000,000 -  Clowney is about that money and the Bengals need a guy with tread on the tires that can play out his contract.  Would he come to Cincinnati only time will tell, but this would be a move to sell tickets.

*After These 3 Acquisitions the team would have 65 Million in cap left to sign aging players, stopgaps, draft picks, and backups.  Obvious points of need are safeties, Vet QB stopgap, guard.

** A lot of the guaranteed money can be paid upfront over the next couple of years considering we won't have a QB on the roster with a huge contract.


Draft Picks
1st round - # 3 , 22, 27, 31
2nd round - #35
3rd round - # 67
4th round - # 99 , 118
5rd- 7th rd - standard

Draft predictions
1st overall - MIA - Tua Tagovailoa - QB BAMA - Miami Tanks into Tua and his consistency leads to the pick

2nd overall  WASH > IND - Joe Burrow QB LSU - Indy has the draft capital to move u and Washington needs picks,  Indy secures the QB of the future.

3rd overall CIN - Andrew Thomas OT Georgia - Projects to be an All-Pro LT and best Offensive lineman in the class, Jonah Williams will kick inside LG with the ability to play LT if Thomas gets hurt.  Not a lot of teams need QB in this class and we can find guys later in the draft if they fall to us.  We Trade a 5th round pick in 2021 to Miami to get Fitzmagic for a year stop gap to develop young QB's.

22nd Overall - Isiah Simmons - LB - Clemson - Time to secure a LB for the future with a guy who is a special player that fits in any scheme you want.  Put him at SAM for now and see how he develops.  

27th Overall - Javon Kinlaw - DT - South Carolina - Rising Star 3 Tech who comes in to possibly replace Atkins.  Great size and speed with strong interior moves.  This guy could end up in the top 10 discussions by end of season so don't get your hopes up.

31st Overall - Jeffery Okudah - CB - OSU - Deep Class of CB's and Okudah is one of the top guys, Could see him being an upgrade to kirkpatrick day one.  Five games into the season he already has 17 tackles, 1 FF, and 3 Interceptions.

35th Overall - Lucas Niang - OT - TCU  - 6'6" and 340 this guy has the potential to be a world-class RT.  This is a pretty deep class of offensive lineman so who knows where he will end up, but his star is rising fast.

67th overall - Jalen Hurts - QB - OKLAHOMA - I finally drafted a QB and this guy has all the potential to be a starter in the NFL which is great value in the 3rd round.  Could possibly trade back into the 2nd round to get him if our scouts love him.  Oklahoma is producing QB's and while he's obviously not the best if he continues to improve he is a guy we can work with.  


**not far enough into the scouting process or college season to go past 3rd round and all these picks are subject to change as the season continues

Love the creativity and extensive thought put in to this process.  I am with you 100% with a couple exceptions:  

I don't think Geno brings a first round pick, or anything close to that...maybe a late 2nd rounder if we are lucky.  Not sure I make that move.  But for a DE like Dunlap I would take a 2nd rounder as he will be easier to replace.  I already like what we have in Hubbard and he could become the LDE of the future with Lawson rotating at RDE with the likes of Andrew Brown.

Lastly, I don't like the idea of wasting Jonah Williams as a LG.  He should be our LT of the future, and the Bengals could draft more defensive help while getting a RT in Rd 2 or 3.  I might consider drafting a G prospect in Rd 2 as well if there is one that grades out higher than a RT.  I think Michael Jordan can be a very good LG, but needs another year of strength training and development.  Not having a solid LT next to him has hurt him as well.  

If the Bengals really want to upgrade the team from the inside out, they would consider trading Ross rather than re-signing him after his rookie deal.  I think he has flashed enough that a team like NE might offer their late first rounder.  Or KC.  I don't see anyone offering that for Green.  I know Ross has had his health issues as well, but he is at a different point in his career compared to AJ.  

I am just hoping some parts of this overhaul happen and the team becomes interesting again.  

[*Nately120*]

(10-10-2019, 04:12 PM)Aquapod770 Wrote: If we got a 2nd rounder (let alone first) for Dre Kirkpatrick I'd literally shit my pants.

One of my friends told me when he first saw a commercial for Super Mario 3 as a kid he was so amazed by it that he ran up the stairs and shit his pants. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-10-2019, 02:44 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: So, you're trading AJ Green for a 1st round pick, but not going to draft his replacement with one of your four 1st round picks??

Weapons are useless without trenches.  We have proven that again and again.  I want the lines STOUT before any weapons are added.  They just might prove that guys like Willis and Tate could be very good if given a little time (and the QB).  

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-10-2019, 03:56 PM)fortyyearfan Wrote: Number one,A. J. Green is not going anywhere,he is getting ready to bring smoke on the water against all teams.Trust me,he is going to get paid and retire here as a first ballot HOF.And next year he is going to make us legit and we are going to be in the playoffs. Its coming and I am already buying my season tickets when available. This losing ends this SUNDAY.Dirty Birds are going down.  A.J. is going to be paid big time money and he deserves it. I hope they keep him in rehab until after the Bye. :andy: :andy: :andy: :andy:

While I agree that the Brown family likely won't let  AJ leave town and will probably overpay to avoid him leaving, how on earth can you say this team will be a playoff contender when they have what is likely the worst defense in the history of the NFL?  

[iLLuSi0nz]

Thanks OP. I enjoy reading stuff like this. For me it highlights how poorly things are currently being run and how badly there needs to be a change in front office philosophy to at least consider these types of angles to fixing the team. Not saying everyone is going to agree with everything you put down, but to take that kind of approach at all would be encouraging given the state of things.

For guys like AJ and maybe Geno I'm torn. I'd say we should have a serious conversation with them about their plans. Tell them where we are spend wise and that no disrespect to them, given our circumstances, this is our max. If you want to work with us on that or close to that it would be ideal, however if you are looking for more we are looking to trade as free agency doesn't bring anything in compensation. Work with them somewhat on where they want to go. If you have to take a little less than what you first expected, it's better than nothing and likely better than any comp. Running out of time though... 0-3 might have been a better time to get on this wagon. Definitely 0-4. Now 0-5 close to the deadline likely not happening.

[Aquapod770]

(10-11-2019, 11:01 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Weapons are useless without trenches.  We have proven that again and again.  I want the lines STOUT before any weapons are added.  They just might prove that guys like Willis and Tate could be very good if given a little time (and the QB).  

You'd think this year would further prove that...

[*Nately120*]

(10-11-2019, 11:01 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Weapons are useless without trenches.  We have proven that again and again.  I want the lines STOUT before any weapons are added.  They just might prove that guys like Willis and Tate could be very good if given a little time (and the QB).  

While I agree we need to shore up or sure up the lines, we have been throwing the words useless and hopeless around quite a lot in the past few years.