You can't tell me Westerman was worse than these LGs

[*ochocincos*]

I have to think that Westerman didn't want to be in the league anymore, as I absolutely don't believe he wouldn't have been the best option for LG between himself, Jordan, and Price.
Jordan has a rating of 31.0 (34.4 pass, 37.1 run) and Price has a rating of 50.0 (28.1 pass, 60.2 run).
Westerman, in the preseason and spot time over the previous 3 years, was one of the higher rated OL the team had.

This team should drop someone like Cethan Carter and bring back Westerman. This team needs all the OL help it can get and a 4th TE is a waste in this offense.

[Sled21]

3 men who coach NFL lines for a living say he was not good enough. I don't understand why that is so hard to accept. The man had no lateral movement ability. If every play was straight ahead, he would have been a beast. They're not, he wasn't.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-14-2019, 10:18 AM)Sled21 Wrote: 3 men who coach NFL lines for a living say he was not good enough. I don't understand why that is so hard to accept. The man had no lateral movement ability. If every play was straight ahead, he would have been a beast. They're not, he wasn't.

Which 3 men? I get that Westerman may not have been as good as Boling, but I always felt that's why he wasn't getting his shot. As I said, he played reasonably well in games when put in at LG. Better than what I've seen from Price and Jordan.

Also, I don't really care what Turner thinks, as I've seen what he chooses to put on the field and it's pathetic.

[Sled21]

(10-14-2019, 10:21 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Which 3 men? I get that Westerman may not have been as good as Boling, but I always felt that's why he wasn't getting his shot. As I said, he played reasonably well in games when put in at LG. Better than what I've seen from Price and Jordan.

Also, I don't really care what Turner thinks, as I've seen what he chooses to put on the field and it's pathetic.

Alexander, Pollock and Turner.....

[*bengalfan74*]

It is, for me anyways, hard to believe that in the entire football world there's no one better than some of these chumps ?

[Au165]

Yea, not only did three of our coaches not think he was good enough but no one else signed him when we cut him.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-14-2019, 10:23 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Alexander, Pollock and Turner.....

Alexander and Pollack still had him on the roster and still put him in when Boling was moved to LT. As I said about Turner, I don't value his opinion at all.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-14-2019, 10:26 AM)Au165 Wrote: Yea, not only did three of our coaches not think he was good enough but no one else signed him when we cut him.

This makes me think he wanted to step away from football.
See my other posts regarding my thoughts on the OL coaches.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-14-2019, 10:24 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: It is, for me anyways, hard to believe that in the entire football world there's no one better than some of these chumps ?

The Bengals literally signed John Jerry off the street and he's playing Tackle which isn't his position...and he's better than Andre Smith. That says A LOT.

[Au165]

(10-14-2019, 10:28 AM)ochocincos Wrote: This makes me think he wanted to step away from football.
See my other posts regarding my thoughts on the OL coaches.

I'm not saying Turner is great, but we have had three O line coaches here in recent times and all have failed with this personnel. The reality is the personnel is crap and as much as we'd like to shine it up into something better it is still crap. Some of that is self inflicted and some of it is bad breaks but I can't sit here and act like this group is under performing. Hell, through week 5 Football Outsiders only has us rated as the 26th O line in the league.

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-14-2019, 10:26 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Alexander and Pollack still had him on the roster and still put him in when Boling was moved to LT. As I said about Turner, I don't value his opinion at all.

Other people have said it and I'm beginning to believe it - Turner is worse than the piano man.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-14-2019, 10:36 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Other people have said it and I'm beginning to believe it - Turner is worse than the piano man.

Alexander was bad when he had Fisher and Ced...but we had the best pass blocking line by pressures allowed according to PFF for A LONG time.

Now we don't, and Dalton is bad.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-14-2019, 10:33 AM)Au165 Wrote: I'm not saying Turner is great, but we have had three O line coaches here in recent times and all have failed with this personnel. The reality is the personnel is crap and as much as we'd like to shine it up into something better it is still crap. Some of that is self inflicted and some of it is bad breaks but I can't sit here and act like this group is under performing hell through week 5 Football Outsiders only has us rated as the 26th O line in the league. 

I'm starting to think the following scenario is becoming more plausible:
Bengals don't have a chance (or want to pay the price) to sign a proven good FA OL like Castonzo or Bulaga.
Because of that, they choose to look to the draft once again.
Knowing they desperately need OL help, they skip QB in the 1st round and take Andrew Thomas.
They then take a QB in the second round like they did with Dalton (or trade up into the back of the 1st to get that option year).

[THE PISTONS]

(10-14-2019, 10:42 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm starting to think the following scenario is becoming more plausible:
Bengals don't have a chance (or want to pay the price) to sign a proven good FA OL like Castonzo or Bulaga.
Because of that, they choose to look to the draft once again.
Knowing they desperately need OL help, they skip QB in the 1st round and take Andrew Thomas.
They then take a QB in the second round like they did with Dalton (or trade up into the back of the 1st to get that option year).

And going OT is fine...but, we'll then have Jonah and Thomas hitting free agency in consecutive years. IF they pan out, would the team retain both at a high salary?

In the 1st, I think Tua is the only QB I'd target. I'd rather go OT than Herbert.

Who are we kidding though, the Bengals can and will mess up a high pick.

[Au165]

(10-14-2019, 10:42 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm starting to think the following scenario is becoming more plausible:
Bengals don't have a chance (or want to pay the price) to sign a proven good FA OL like Castonzo or Bulaga.
Because of that, they choose to look to the draft once again.
Knowing they desperately need OL help, they skip QB in the 1st round and take Andrew Thomas.
They then take a QB in the second round like they did with Dalton (or trade up into the back of the 1st to get that option year).

You're not going to like this but I think the scenario is....

They look at this as a bad break but a learning experience for young guys. 
They signed Miller and Hart because they were young and wanted a young line to keep together.
They drafted Jordan with the expectation that he'd become a starter eventually.
Jonah Williams will be the LT anchor for a decade and Hopkins is entrenched as the Center.
They draft a QB in the 1st and stick him behind the exact same line.

[Fullrock]

First of all Westerman retired. He didn't want to play anymore. Kind of important to want to play. Secondly, kind of hard to evaluate Turner as a coach with what he is forced to play right now.

[Au165]

(10-14-2019, 10:51 AM)Fullrock Wrote: First of all Westerman retired. He didn't want to play anymore. Kind of important to want to play. Secondly, kind of hard to evaluate Turner as a coach with what he is forced to play right now.

He was cut after he returned to the team, which means he apparently did want to play still.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(10-14-2019, 10:52 AM)Au165 Wrote: He was cut after he returned to the team, which means he apparently did want to play still.

Or get paid?

[*ochocincos*]

(10-14-2019, 10:51 AM)Au165 Wrote: You're not going to like this but I think the scenario is....

They look at this as a bad break but a learning experience for young guys. 
They signed Miller and Hart because they were young and wanted a young line to keep together.
They drafted Jordan with the expectation that he'd become a starter eventually.
Jonah Williams will be the LT anchor for a decade and Hopkins is entrenched as the Center.
They draft a QB in the 1st and stick him behind the exact same line.

If this team goes into next year with that OL, the stadium will have a lot more empty seats compared to the start of this season.
Good or bad, it will happen. The only reason people showed up to start the season is because of a new hope with a fresh coach. Now that coach isn't producing well even after 10 games (including preseason), so many people are avoiding the team again.
The team's smugness when it comes to evaluating their talent is what has dug this hole.

[Au165]

(10-14-2019, 11:02 AM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: Or get paid?

He returned to the team so by all intents and purposes he wasn't "retired" and without knowing any better all we can go off of is that he returned so he was atleast willing to play. To the context of the discussion, 31 other teams could have signed him and chose not to along with three O line coaches here all not seeing enough in him.