How does this get fixed - realistically

[hotweales]

Realistically Mike Brown is not going to step down, or fire any family!
Duke Tobin is not going anywhere!
Zac can not be measured as a Coach by what I see on the field!

How does it get fixed considering what we know about how the Bengals operate?

I love AJ Green, but will he add enough for us to win games? Can we win playoff games before he is done with football?
Can we get enough for him to be traded? Will we resign him?
Same questions really about Atkins and Dunlap?

Is Andy Dalton good enough at QB? I doubt the Bengals should pay him another contract.

Linebackers - really where should the team go with this? Pratt did not look good Sunday and we know how the rest of the group is.

Cornerback play, can they hold up with better QB pressure?

Really where do we go from here?

Will Zac play Finley at some point this season? Can he be an NFL starter? Moving money from QB to other positions may help?

It appears that the team has needs in so many areas that it is unlikely to be fixed by next season.

What positions do you feel they will try to address in the draft? Who will they target? Is Tua really the best QB coming out? He plays for a team that has so much talent, does it make him look better than what he is?

Why did they extend Gio?

I would be surprised if Mike Brown trades any players for draft picks. I think it would be wise, but not usually how they operate.

If a first rounder is offered for AJ - I pull the trigger!
Some rumors that there is interest in Eifert - Make the trade!
One more year on Dalton's contract and he is UFA - get something for him! I don't feel Andy is the problem, but he contributes. He makes enough mistakes that can cost games and he will not elevate the team. Is he worth 17.5 Million next year with all the other holes - NO
Cut Dunlap - need the money


Some pretty good OT in this draft
CB pretty good in this draft
QB pretty good in this draft
DE/Dt also pretty good

I feel like the following will happen!
If offered a first round pick for AJ, they will make this trade. Even the Brown's can't screw that up.
Eifert will not go as no team will offer much, but a 4th or 5th would force them to pull the trigger
Finley plays at some point this season. Maybe 2 or 3 games. He does not play well enough for them to cut Andy. They will draft a QB in first round and he will sit behind Andy next year. Andy will leave the following year as a UFA.
They will once again sign some cast offs or older guys to fill holes
We will win 5 or 6 games next year!

What say you Board. How does this get fixed?
Just looking for some opinions

What I would do - even though most of you don't care -

Trade AJ - get what you can - First rounder would be nice, but 2nd and 3rd, or 2nd and 4th would be a go.
Trade Eifert - Take whatever picks you can get - you should not resign him
Try to use Dunlap, Atkins, Kirkpatrick, Dalton or any asset you can get something for in draft day trades.
Draft the trenches - O-line and D-line is what makes us not competitive. Hell Jacoby is winning in Indy with a good line.
I would again not go after free agents yet. Need another year to improve - but the following season you need to add a couple impact guys.
We look Old and Slow on the field - have to get younger - Give Zac Taylor a 2 year window after this season. If he is not the answer gone after his 3rd year.

What say you board? How does this get fixed? What is the answer?





LB a little weak in draft

[fortyyearfan]

(10-16-2019, 12:36 PM)hotweales Wrote: Realistically Mike Brown is not going to step down, or fire any family!
Duke Tobin is not going anywhere!
Zac can not be measured as a Coach by what I see on the field!

How does it get fixed considering what we know about how the Bengals operate?

I love AJ Green, but will he add enough for us to win games? Can we win playoff games before he is done with football?
Can we get enough for him to be traded? Will we resign him?
Same questions really about Atkins and Dunlap?

Is Andy Dalton good enough at QB? I doubt the Bengals should pay him another contract.

Linebackers - really where should the team go with this? Pratt did not look good Sunday and we know how the rest of the group is.

Cornerback play, can they hold up with better QB pressure?

Really where do we go from here?

Will Zac play Finley at some point this season? Can he be an NFL starter? Moving money from QB to other positions may help?

It appears that the team has needs in so many areas that it is unlikely to be fixed by next season.

What positions do you feel they will try to address in the draft? Who will they target? Is Tua really the best QB coming out? He plays for a team that has so much talent, does it make him look better than what he is?

Why did they extend Gio?

I would be surprised if Mike Brown trades any players for draft picks. I think it would be wise, but not usually how they operate.

If a first rounder is offered for AJ - I pull the trigger!
Some rumors that there is interest in Eifert - Make the trade!
One more year on Dalton's contract and he is UFA - get something for him! I don't feel Andy is the problem, but he contributes. He makes enough mistakes that can cost games and he will not elevate the team. Is he worth 17.5 Million next year with all the other holes - NO
Cut Dunlap - need the money


Some pretty good OT in this draft
CB pretty good in this draft
QB pretty good in this draft
DE/Dt also pretty good

I feel like the following will happen!
If offered a first round pick for AJ, they will make this trade. Even the Brown's can't screw that up.
Eifert will not go as no team will offer much, but a 4th or 5th would force them to pull the trigger
Finley plays at some point this season. Maybe 2 or 3 games. He does not play well enough for them to cut Andy. They will draft a QB in first round and he will sit behind Andy next year. Andy will leave the following year as a UFA.
They will once again sign some cast offs or older guys to fill holes
We will win 5 or 6 games next year!

What say you Board. How does this get fixed?
Just looking for some opinions

What I would do - even though most of you don't care -  

Trade AJ - get what you can - First rounder would be nice, but 2nd and 3rd, or 2nd and 4th would be a go.
Trade Eifert - Take whatever picks you can get - you should not resign him
Try to use Dunlap, Atkins, Kirkpatrick, Dalton or any asset you can get something for in draft day trades.
Draft the trenches - O-line and D-line is what makes us not competitive. Hell Jacoby is winning in Indy with a good line.
I would again not go after free agents yet. Need another year to improve - but the following season you need to add a couple impact guys.
We look Old and Slow on the field - have to get younger - Give Zac Taylor a 2 year window after this season. If he is not the answer gone after his 3rd year.

What say you board? How does this get fixed? What is the answer?

I went back and watched the ravens game again and what stands out to me and has for many many years is the ravens players are huge and very strong and with muscles,not fat,especially their lines,defense and offense,Every year most teams have bigger,stronger and faster players than we do.I mean ,some of those offensive linemen were 6ft 8 and 340 with muscle,not fat.OUr players looked like a bunch of school kids going against their daddys, It  was so embarrassing to watch our d-line just getting manhandled by much bigger and stronger and FASTER LINEMen than we could ever have.Once again its about drafting players that can matchup against this,especially in our division,the steelers have guys the same and so does the browns,we draft the WRONG PLAYERS,and never address our lines the right way.If you watch how the ravens lines just manhandled our guys and our lines looked like little kids out there.Go watch how stupid our guys looked with no pass rush,and no way to beat this team. :paul: :paul: :paul: :paul: :paul:



LB a little weak in draft

[*ochocincos*]

Find new starters at the following positions (in priority order):

Offense:
- LT/LG (Reserve Williams for the other)
- RT
- QB
- Future WR1
- RG (after LT, LG, and RT get resolved)
- TE

Defense:
- 2 LBs
- 1 DL
- 2 CBs (one outside, one slot)
- S

ST:
- K

That's 13 positions. You can't realistically expect anyone drafted after 4th round to become a good position player, so that's potentially 3 drafts worth if you only focus on draft. You're looking at 2022 being the earliest the team would become a true contender if the Bengals hit on every draft pick through the first 4 rounds over the next few years.

If the Bengals want to become a true contender before 2022, they need to participate in FA more than getting B-to-C-level veterans.

It's either that or actually get coaches in that can develop late-round talent well on a consistent basis.

[*psychdoctor*]

(10-16-2019, 12:55 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Find new starters at the following positions (in priority order):

Offense:
- LT/LG (Reserve Williams for the other)
- RT
- QB
- Future WR1
- RG (after LT, LG, and RT get resolved)
- TE

Defense:
- 2 LBs
- 1 DL
- 2 CBs (one outside, one slot)
- S

ST:
- K

That's 13 positions. You can't realistically expect anyone drafted after 4th round to become a good position player, so that's potentially 3 drafts worth if you only focus on draft. You're looking at 2022 being the earliest the team would become a true contender if the Bengals hit on every draft pick through the first 4 rounds over the next few years.

If the Bengals want to become a true contender before 2022, they need to participate in FA more than getting B-to-C-level veterans.

It's either that or actually get coaches in that can develop late-round talent well on a consistent basis.

Pretty much this.
I would take 2nd rounds for Geno and AJ and 3rd+5th rounders for Dalton.  

[THE PISTONS]

(10-16-2019, 12:55 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Find new starters at the following positions (in priority order):

Offense:
- LT/LG (Reserve Williams for the other)
- RT
- QB
- Future WR1
- RG (after LT, LG, and RT get resolved)
- TE

Defense:
- 2 LBs
- 1 DL
- 2 CBs (one outside, one slot)
- S

ST:
- K

That's 13 positions. You can't realistically expect anyone drafted after 4th round to become a good position player, so that's potentially 3 drafts worth if you only focus on draft. You're looking at 2022 being the earliest the team would become a true contender if the Bengals hit on every draft pick through the first 4 rounds over the next few years.

If the Bengals want to become a true contender before 2022, they need to participate in FA more than getting B-to-C-level veterans.

It's either that or actually get coaches in that can develop late-round talent well on a consistent basis.

So...we essentially need an entirely new roster.   

We'd be better off allowing the Bengals to leave and doing an expansion draft. That would probably yield a better roster!

[mhbsavant]

(10-16-2019, 12:36 PM)hotweales Wrote: Realistically Mike Brown is not going to step down, or fire any family!
Duke Tobin is not going anywhere!
Zac can not be measured as a Coach by what I see on the field!

How does it get fixed considering what we know about how the Bengals operate?

I love AJ Green, but will he add enough for us to win games? Can we win playoff games before he is done with football?
Can we get enough for him to be traded? Will we resign him?
Same questions really about Atkins and Dunlap?

Is Andy Dalton good enough at QB? I doubt the Bengals should pay him another contract.

Linebackers - really where should the team go with this? Pratt did not look good Sunday and we know how the rest of the group is.

Cornerback play, can they hold up with better QB pressure?

Really where do we go from here?

Will Zac play Finley at some point this season? Can he be an NFL starter? Moving money from QB to other positions may help?

It appears that the team has needs in so many areas that it is unlikely to be fixed by next season.

What positions do you feel they will try to address in the draft? Who will they target? Is Tua really the best QB coming out? He plays for a team that has so much talent, does it make him look better than what he is?

Why did they extend Gio?

I would be surprised if Mike Brown trades any players for draft picks. I think it would be wise, but not usually how they operate.

If a first rounder is offered for AJ - I pull the trigger!
Some rumors that there is interest in Eifert - Make the trade!
One more year on Dalton's contract and he is UFA - get something for him! I don't feel Andy is the problem, but he contributes. He makes enough mistakes that can cost games and he will not elevate the team. Is he worth 17.5 Million next year with all the other holes - NO
Cut Dunlap - need the money


Some pretty good OT in this draft
CB pretty good in this draft
QB pretty good in this draft
DE/Dt also pretty good

I feel like the following will happen!
If offered a first round pick for AJ, they will make this trade. Even the Brown's can't screw that up.
Eifert will not go as no team will offer much, but a 4th or 5th would force them to pull the trigger
Finley plays at some point this season. Maybe 2 or 3 games. He does not play well enough for them to cut Andy. They will draft a QB in first round and he will sit behind Andy next year. Andy will leave the following year as a UFA.
They will once again sign some cast offs or older guys to fill holes
We will win 5 or 6 games next year!

What say you Board. How does this get fixed?
Just looking for some opinions

What I would do - even though most of you don't care -  

Trade AJ - get what you can - First rounder would be nice, but 2nd and 3rd, or 2nd and 4th would be a go.
Trade Eifert - Take whatever picks you can get - you should not resign him
Try to use Dunlap, Atkins, Kirkpatrick, Dalton or any asset you can get something for in draft day trades.
Draft the trenches - O-line and D-line is what makes us not competitive. Hell Jacoby is winning in Indy with a good line.
I would again not go after free agents yet. Need another year to improve - but the following season you need to add a couple impact guys.
We look Old and Slow on the field - have to get younger - Give Zac Taylor a 2 year window after this season. If he is not the answer gone after his 3rd year.

What say you board? How does this get fixed? What is the answer?





LB a little weak in draft

Somebody PLEASE TELL ME the Bengals and any of the Bengals fans, are not considering cornerback in the draft!!!! Please draft something else than cornerbacks.

You can expect a few things as a Bengals fan...

1. Being outcoached by the other teams coach
2. Piss poor management
3. And the constant drafting of CORNERBACKS in the first round with no real attention paid to linebackers.. 

[THE PISTONS]

Bengals Management's Plan to Fix the Team:

1 ) Draft
2 ) Another year of coaching from ZT's staff
3 ) Health
4 ) 2 or 3 bargain bin free agents

[jj22]

Everything Ocho said.

And that's not even counting depth.

We are in for it guys, as this FO isn't capable of turning things around alone, and the HC isn't experienced enough to know NFL players like Marvin did that allowed him to make chicken salad out chicken....

ZT has to rely on our "scout department" and Tobin and that doesn't bode well for a quick turnaround.

[jj22]

(10-16-2019, 01:25 PM)mhbsavant Wrote: Somebody PLEASE TELL ME the Bengals and any of the Bengals fans, are not considering cornerback in the draft!!!! Please draft something else than cornerbacks.

You can expect a few things as a Bengals fan...

1. Being outcoached by the other teams coach
2. Piss poor management
3. And the constant drafting of CORNERBACKS in the first round with no real attention paid to linebackers.. 

Why? we have no cb's that would start on another team.

WJIII maybe, but he's been one of the biggest disappointments after a great 2nd year, and I doubt he gets the big extension everyone thought was coming.

[jj22]

If you think we have any talent on this team, please tell me who DC's and OC's worry about on Monday when they gameplan for their game against the Bengals?

The answer is no one (until/if Green returns).

And that's why the team is in such bad shape.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-16-2019, 01:25 PM)mhbsavant Wrote: Somebody PLEASE TELL ME the Bengals and any of the Bengals fans, are not considering cornerback in the draft!!!! Please draft something else than cornerbacks.

You can expect a few things as a Bengals fan...

1. Being outcoached by the other teams coach
2. Piss poor management
3. And the constant drafting of CORNERBACKS in the first round with no real attention paid to linebackers.. 

If a CB like Okudah is true BPA, they should consider taking one. Kirkpatrick and Webb aren't anything special, Dennard is constantly hurt. The Bengals need more than WJ3.
But what the Bengals were able to do during the "good" years was bring in good vet CBs at a bargain who had familiarity with Zimmer. Adam Jones and Terence Newman were very good for the Bengals and relatively cheap compared to their counterparts around the league.

As for upcoming FA DBs who have played for Anarumo, about the only one I see is Eli Apple, but Anarumo was only DB coach with Apple for 5 games.

With all that said, Taylor is an offensive-minded guy and everyone knows the deficiencies with the offense. I fully expect the 1st round selection to be on an offensive player, and I expect it to specifically be a QB or OL.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-16-2019, 01:48 PM)jj22 Wrote: If you think we have any talent on this team, please tell me who DC's and OC's worry about on Monday when they gameplan for their game against the Bengals?

The answer is no one (until/if Green returns).

And that's why the team is in such bad shape.

I think teams worry about Atkins and Dunlap to a somewhat lesser extent. Aside from that, no one unless AJ returns.
Opposing offenses will always gouge the middle of the field because they know how bad the LBs are. And opposing defenses will continue to attack the LOS because they know how bad the OL is.

[BengalChris]

Why can't we measure Zac by what goes on on the field?

That's the only thing we can measure him by.

Realistically, this gets fixed by firing this coach and hiring another one. Rinse repeat every couple of years until the team stumbles on a coach who can win with Mike Brown at the helm. That's what happened last time, so I think it will work again.

[bengaloo]

Imo its about the same as last year. Hit the OL and LB first with major upgrades, and then start into other needs. Its blatant that we need OL and LB and that alone would solve a good bit of issues. Ity would at least give us a real chance to see what these coaches can do. They inherited a team with no OL or LBs. The blame is not soley on the current staff.

[Circleville Guy]

(10-16-2019, 12:55 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Find new starters at the following positions (in priority order):

Offense:
- LT/LG (Reserve Williams for the other)
- RT
- QB
- Future WR1
- RG (after LT, LG, and RT get resolved)
- TE

Defense:
- 2 LBs
- 1 DL
- 2 CBs (one outside, one slot)
- S

ST:
- K

That's 13 positions. You can't realistically expect anyone drafted after 4th round to become a good position player, so that's potentially 3 drafts worth if you only focus on draft. You're looking at 2022 being the earliest the team would become a true contender if the Bengals hit on every draft pick through the first 4 rounds over the next few years.

If the Bengals want to become a true contender before 2022, they need to participate in FA more than getting B-to-C-level veterans.

It's either that or actually get coaches in that can develop late-round talent well on a consistent basis.

I don’t think that most people understand how bad the talent level is on this team. There are many that think that they’re 3 or 4 guys away. There are some that think that benching Dalton fixes it, it’s way more dire than that. It’s a top to bottom thing that includes everything in the organization. This really does have the potential of being a 90’s bad kinda thing. They could actually need 4 LB’s. Are the 2 they use even rotation worthy? I’ve never been into that whole “Who Dey” crap. Fans were always chanting that at the stadium when the team was losing 60-70% of the time. It’s a New Dey sounded like a ten year old was running marketing. This ownership.... I just don’t know how it’s healthy for a league to allow teams to make money with no chance of failure regardless of how poorly they manage. Their mismanagement gets absorbed by the well run organizations. It allows for cities to be stuck in a lingering purgatory. Anyways, it looks like you can see that the team isn’t close to competing on a weekly basis.

[Aquapod770]

The team needs to invest in the Oline and LBer group in the offseason. Both in FA and in the draft.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

Burn it to the ground.

[Joelist]

(10-16-2019, 02:27 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: I don’t think that most people understand how bad the talent level is on this team. There are many that think that they’re 3 or 4 guys away. There are some that think that benching Dalton fixes it, it’s way more dire than that. It’s a top to bottom thing that includes everything in the organization. This really does have the potential of being a 90’s bad kinda thing. They could actually need 4 LB’s. Are the 2 they use even rotation worthy? I’ve never been into that whole “Who Dey” crap. Fans were always chanting that at the stadium when the team was losing 60-70% of the time. It’s a New Dey sounded like a ten year old was running marketing. This ownership.... I just don’t know how it’s healthy for a league to allow teams to make money with no chance of failure regardless of how poorly they manage. Their mismanagement gets absorbed by the well run organizations. It allows for cities to be stuck in a lingering purgatory. Anyways, it looks like you can see that the team isn’t close to competing on a weekly basis.

Actually the LB situation is due at least in part to our wacky 2 LB alignment which makes the edges a gold mine and if they spread to cover the edges then the middle is empty. Put another real OLB out there with Vigil and put Brown in his natural MIKE position and the results will be rather a lot better. 

For the OL we just need to admit the talent is not there in at least 2 if not 4 of the 5 spots. And until we can fix it we need to ditch the overly complex and reactive zone blocking scheme and use simple directional drive blocking. Shades of 2017 when after Lazor got Piano Man overruled and the blocking changed to directional the blocking dramatically improved. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Realistically? It doesn't.

Short of the NFL forcing them to sell the team or a plane crash, it will continue to be what it's been. I don't think Katie/Troy are the salvation to the Mike Brown Bengals. Besides, we all know Mike Brown is going to live another 20-30 years just to spite Bengals fans.

Maybe they move the team after the lease expires, and then the Jaguars or Buccaneers move in.

[samhain]

My answer is that you do for ZT what you did for Marvin in year 1. Let him sign 3 starter caliber FAs. Let some established guys go. Be more aggressive in personnel acquisition.

You can still look to build thought the draft. I just feel like we're getting to the point where the holes on the roster are too numerous to fill with picks. It would take 3 years to become viable through that plan.