Question For Lawyers (Or Anyone)

[UKWhoDey]

Ive surmised from just this thread the OP has sued his friend over a drunk driving accident? What is OP liable for? Damaged property at the cemetary? Now the cemetary is liable because y'all chose that as a place to drink? Lol....wow. Im not a lawyer, just a curious bystander and from what Ive seen so far this seems extremely petty and completely obvlivous....total lack of accepting personal responsibility.  This seems pretty ridiculous, especially the parental angle.  Get real man, thats a ridiculous argument.  Maybe there's more to this.  Ill hang up and listen.

[BFritz21]

(10-24-2019, 10:04 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No Brad I am not wrong at all.  The case was appealed to a higher court and you lost there also.  So you can't blame this all on pone judge not liking you.

The fact that you can not say exactly what the parents could have done to prevent the accident short of locking up their son and never let him leave the home shows that I am correct.  No court would ever put that requirement on parents.

You have no clue what you're talking about!  Quit pretending that you do.

Our case didn't make it to a higher court.  There was one case that was also nothing like ours but our lawyers were waiting to be appealed and, when that failed, my old man decided he didn't feel like taking it to a higher court because he was tired of waiting and he didn't understand that, even though the driver's parents' insurance wasn't that much, their lawyers would have attacked the cemetery's lawyers in an attempt to find them more at fault.

Once again, stop making claims about me, like you have done many times on here.

You're completely wrong.  

[BFritz21]

(10-24-2019, 10:18 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I deleted my post about yoour parents.  I did not mean to insult them as much as make a point about your argument.

Every parent knows there is a chance that their children will drink.  You had done this many times before and your parents had failed to monitor your behavior.  So if your parents did not take steps to stop you then they would be just as responsible for the accident as the parents of your friend.  You can't let your parents off the hook just because they were too lax to ever catch you.

Your friends parents did not let him have a car.  They did not provide the alcohol.  They did not do anything to cause this accident.

You knew he was a maniac.  You were the one who was drinking and got into the car with him.  You need to stop trying to blame other people for your mistake.

This issue is way too personal for me to keep arguing with you about it.  I am going to let this drop here.  I just hope you learn how to let it go instead of obsessing over it for the rest of your life.

Ha!

Blame other people for my mistake?!  I'm a public "speaker" to prevent kids and adults from making the same mistake I did, but I blame other people?!  

Why do you think it's ok to continuously take false shots at me in order to try and make me look bad?  And, like in this instant, you'll never admit that you're wrong.

And the judge ruled that his parents had no way of foreseeing that he'd drink, yet you just said that every parent can!  You're arguing against yourself now!

Also, the fact that you deleted your post, as well as the false things you post, shows that you'll do anything, and go to any lengths, to win an argument, but it never works out.

(10-24-2019, 12:42 PM)UKWhoDey Wrote: Ive surmised from just this thread the OP has sued his friend over a drunk driving accident? What is OP liable for? Damaged property at the cemetary? Now the cemetary is liable because y'all chose that as a place to drink? Lol....wow. Im not a lawyer, just a curious bystander and from what Ive seen so far this seems extremely petty and completely obvlivous....total lack of accepting personal responsibility.  This seems pretty ridiculous, especially the parental angle.  Get real man, thats a ridiculous argument.  Maybe there's more to this.  Ill hang up and listen.

My parents sued his parents,

The cemetery was liable because the caretaker (our friend's dad and they lived in the cemetery) let us drink back there, bought us beer, and set the stage for what happened to happen.

We were 15, and we don't drive anywhere if we don't have the cemetery to go to (it was just up the street), we don't get drunk in the cemetery, and we don't go speeding/joy riding if the gates were locked, like they were supposed to be by law.

[fredtoast]

(10-22-2019, 04:10 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: We appealed it

(10-24-2019, 06:16 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: You have no clue what you're talking about!  Quit pretending that you do.

Our case didn't make it to a higher court. 

If you appealed it then it went to a higher court.

[fredtoast]

(10-24-2019, 06:57 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: We were 15, and we don't drive anywhere if we don't have the cemetery to go to (it was just up the street), we don't get drunk in the cemetery, and we don't go speeding/joy riding if the gates were locked, like they were supposed to be by law.

You would have been drinking someplace else if you did not have access to the cemetery.

In fact you were drinking at a friends house before you went to the cemetery weren't you?  It has been a while since I reviewed the record.

[fredtoast]

(10-24-2019, 06:57 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Blame other people for my mistake?!  I'm a public "speaker" to prevent kids and adults from making the same mistake I did, but I blame other people?!  

Yes.  

All you do is blame other people.

"The driver was crazy."

"It was his parents fault."

"It was the cemetery's fault."

"I was only 15 so my brain was not developed enough for it to be my fault." 


I have never once heard you say it was your fault, and that you were the one responsible for all the bad decisions you made that night.

[fredtoast]

(10-24-2019, 06:57 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: And the judge ruled that his parents had no way of foreseeing that he'd drink, yet you just said that every parent can!  You're arguing against yourself now!

You don't understand the law.

Every parent knows there is a chance their child will drink.  But that is not enough to make them negligent and responsible for what their child does while drinking.  

Parents are financially responsible for damage done by their children, but that is true even if they do absolutely NOTHING wrong.  That is why their insurance paid your medical bills.  

What your family was trying to do was collect more money by proving that the parents were in some way negligent and make them pay more for that.  But his parents were not negligent.  They did not provide access to alcohol or a car.  They did not do anything to be held responsible for the accident.  The judge made the correct decision.  You appealed it to a higher court and that court upheld the decision.

[UKWhoDey]

(10-24-2019, 06:57 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Ha!

Blame other people for my mistake?!  I'm a public "speaker" to prevent kids and adults from making the same mistake I did, but I blame other people?!  

Why do you think it's ok to continuously take false shots at me in order to try and make me look bad?  And, like in this instant, you'll never admit that you're wrong.

And the judge ruled that his parents had no way of foreseeing that he'd drink, yet you just said that every parent can!  You're arguing against yourself now!

Also, the fact that you deleted your post, as well as the false things you post, shows that you'll do anything, and go to any lengths, to win an argument, but it never works out.

My parents sued his parents,

The cemetery was liable because the caretaker (our friend's dad and they lived in the cemetery) let us drink back there, bought us beer, and set the stage for what happened to happen.

We were 15, and we don't drive anywhere if we don't have the cemetery to go to (it was just up the street), we don't get drunk in the cemetery, and we don't go speeding/joy riding if the gates were locked, like they were supposed to be by law.

We were 15 implies youre probably still not even 21.  You clearly have a problem owning personal responsibility, frankly your entire premise here is patently absurd,  and it kind of pisses me off you even remotely think you have a justification to sue over something you were stupid enough to do.  The fact that your parents are the one that brought the lawsuit tells me you've gotten this totally warped sense of logic from them, which is a damn shame.

If every single person is telling you the same thing, maybe you should stop and accept the fact that its you and not the rest of the world.   This is some frivilous McDonalds hot coffee b.s.  get real dude and grow up.

[treee]

(10-24-2019, 10:44 PM)UKWhoDey Wrote: We were 15 implies youre probably still not even 21.  You clearly have a problem owning personal responsibility, frankly your entire premise here is patently absurd,  and it kind of pisses me off you even remotely think you have a justification to sue over something you were stupid enough to do.  The fact that your parents are the one that brought the lawsuit tells me you've gotten this totally warped sense of logic from them, which is a damn shame.

If every single person is telling you the same thing, maybe you should stop and accept the fact that its you and not the rest of the world.   This is some frivilous McDonalds hot coffee b.s.  get real dude and grow up.

While I agree with the rest of your post, the coffee burn lawsuit was far from frivolous. This lady got burned so bad that her labia melted and fused to her thigh. McDonald's kept their coffee heated to unsafe temperatures in order to preserves it freshness and an innocent person suffered terribly for it. 

[BmorePat87]

(10-25-2019, 02:15 AM)treee Wrote: While I agree with the rest of your post, the coffee burn lawsuit was far from frivolous. This lady got burned so bad that her labia melted and fused to her thigh. McDonald's kept their coffee heated to unsafe temperatures in order to preserves it freshness and an innocent person suffered terribly for it. 

Yep, McDonald's won the narrative on that one. It was horrible what happened to the woman.

[BmorePat87]

You asked for legal advice on a football message board and then argued with the board's resident lawyer because you don't know what the legal term "finding of fact" means.

You don't want an actual answer, you want people to commiserate with you.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-23-2019, 05:17 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: It was about him driving to the cemetery, not speeding.

But, since you brought it up, a parent's brain is a lot more developed than a 15-year-old's and parents are supposed to watch over kids.

Thanks for trying to stump me but strengthening my point 

I’m not trying to stump you. I just want to know why you think his parents should have known something bad was going to happen, yet you had no idea something bad might happen.

And if his parents should have known something bad was going to happen then shouldn’t your parents have known something bad was going to happen and stopped you from being best friends and drinking with this maniac in the cemetery? Your parents knew you were an under age drinker who didn’t obey them or the law and you were hanging out with a maniac who was a bad influence so why did they let you leave the house unsupervised?

[BFritz21]

(10-24-2019, 07:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If you appealed it then it went to a higher court.

False.

We appealed it and then had to wait for another case to get ruled on before they could rule on ours but, by the time that case was ruled on, my old man got tired of waiting and told my lawyers to just move on.

You made an assumption, like you have done many times before, including in this thread, and it turned out to be false.  Why would you make false assumptions if your debate held water?

(10-24-2019, 07:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You would have been drinking someplace else if you did not have access to the cemetery.

In fact you were drinking at a friends house before you went to the cemetery weren't you?  It has been a while since I reviewed the record.

HA!  I hadn't drank in months before that night and we didn't drink that often because other parents didn't allow us to drink at their houses!

We had drank a beer down the street at another kid's house before going to the cemetery but we had only started drinking (and only had the beer bought for us) because we knew we were going to party and drink in the cemetery where anything was allowed.

See above about assumptions.

(10-24-2019, 07:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes.  

All you do is blame other people.

"The driver was crazy."

"It was his parents fault."

"It was the cemetery's fault."

"I was only 15 so my brain was not developed enough for it to be my fault." 


I have never once heard you say it was your fault, and that you were the one responsible for all the bad decisions you made that night.

When was I ever asked if it was my fault?

Like I said, I'm a public "speaker" trying to prevent kids from making the same mistakes I did, so it's kind of ridiculous to say that I blame other people.  Other people definitely played a role in it, but that's not me blaming other people.

You'll have to show me the exact posts with those quotes because I know a few of them are incorrect so I'd need to see them in context.

(10-24-2019, 07:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You don't understand the law.

Every parent knows there is a chance their child will drink.  But that is not enough to make them negligent and responsible for what their child does while drinking.  

Parents are financially responsible for damage done by their children, but that is true even if they do absolutely NOTHING wrong.  That is why their insurance paid your medical bills.  

What your family was trying to do was collect more money by proving that the parents were in some way negligent and make them pay more for that.  But his parents were not negligent.  They did not provide access to alcohol or a car.  They did not do anything to be held responsible for the accident.  The judge made the correct decision.  You appealed it to a higher court and that court upheld the decision.

I've had friends that don't drink.  Most of our grade didn't drink, so how does every parent know there's a chance their child will drink? Most parties we went to didn't allow drinking (in fact, the cemetery was the only place that let us drink), so how does every parent think know there is a possibility?

Their insurance didn't pay our medical bills.  Another assumption by you.  Why do you think they did?

We were trying to get them to pay our expenses (at least) because they cost us hundreds of thousands of dollars (medical expenses, housing alterations, vehicles, my mom had to quit her job, etc.).  Extra would have been nice, but that's not why we sued.

How do you keep making assumptions and expect me to think you have any valid points?

(10-24-2019, 10:44 PM)UKWhoDey Wrote: We were 15 implies youre probably still not even 21.  You clearly have a problem owning personal responsibility, frankly your entire premise here is patently absurd,  and it kind of pisses me off you even remotely think you have a justification to sue over something you were stupid enough to do.  The fact that your parents are the one that brought the lawsuit tells me you've gotten this totally warped sense of logic from them, which is a damn shame.

If every single person is telling you the same thing, maybe you should stop and accept the fact that its you and not the rest of the world.   This is some frivilous McDonalds hot coffee b.s.  get real dude and grow up.

Ha! 

I'm 35 now.  

Every single person?  Every person that I've talked to about this in the area (including lawyers) agree that it was a bullshit ruling.

Personal responsibility?  I'm a public "speaker" because I own what I did and I try to help kids and adults to not make the same mistake I did.

In fact, a reason that I'm so popular in the tristate is because I don't play the victim and I own what I did.

Something tells me that you're the one that needs to grow up 

(10-25-2019, 10:26 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I’m not trying to stump you. I just want to know why you think his parents should have known something bad was going to happen, yet you had no idea something bad might happen.

And if his parents should have known something bad was going to happen then shouldn’t your parents have known something bad was going to happen and stopped you from being best friends and drinking with this maniac in the cemetery? Your parents knew you were an under age drinker who didn’t obey them or the law and you were hanging out with a maniac who was a bad influence so why did they let you leave the house unsupervised?

You think a 15-year-old should have the same ability to foresee something as an adult?  Actually, though, he did scare me and maybe I should have known but you always figure a parent will be around to prevent us from doing things like that.

Thanks for strengthening my point 

My parents knew I had drank before but that's it.  They also didn't know how big of a maniac he was since we went to different schools.  Yes, I told them he was a maniac but that was just about fighting.

[Au165]

How has this thread not been closed?

[Bengalzona]

We are not convinced that the questions posed in OP can be resolved in positive and satisfactory way for all parties. And it appears that much of the conversation has strayed. Therefore, we are closing this thread.

For future reference, if you ask people for advice in a thread, be prepared for answers you may not like or agree with and be considerate in your responses.