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(10-25-2019, 01:41 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: If a player is cleared of the concussion protocol that means the concussion is resolved and they are no longer injured. The Bengals shouldn't list a player on the injury report if he is no longer injured and cleared to play in a game. If he refuses to play that's different than being injured. If he refuses to play after being cleared they should suspend and fine him like they did last week. But, this week he is on the injury list again for a concussion he should no longer be suffering from since he has been cleared of the concussion protocol and was limited in practice even though he should be a full participant if he has been cleared. Again, if he has been cleared then he shouldn't be on the injury list and he shouldn't be listed as limited practice.
But, I wanted pally's input on this if possible.
This makes sense. Seems like the Bengals are negotiating his return or hopefully keeping him out this week to be traded. Placed on suspension last week and now on injury list makes me think there is something going on behind the scenes.
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(10-25-2019, 01:46 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: This makes sense. Seems like the Bengals are negotiating his return or hopefully keeping him out this week to be traded. Placed on suspension last week and now on injury list makes me think there is something going on behind the scenes.
One would hope they are trading him.
But, they may have just caved a bit on the 'You're healthy enough to play' stance. Maybe the league stepped in?
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(10-25-2019, 01:41 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: If a player is cleared of the concussion protocol that means the concussion is resolved and they are no longer injured. The Bengals shouldn't list a player on the injury report if he is no longer injured and cleared to play in a game. If he refuses to play that's different than being injured. If he refuses to play after being cleared they should suspend and fine him like they did last week. But, this week he is on the injury list again for a concussion he should no longer be suffering from since he has been cleared of the concussion protocol and was limited in practice even though he should be a full participant if he has been cleared. Again, if he has been cleared then he shouldn't be on the injury list and he shouldn't be listed as limited practice.
But, I wanted pally's input on this if possible.
I don't really know, but I am guessing that Glenn was so out of shape from not working out hard for 8 weeks that he was not physically ready to play Sunday. Not still in protocol, but still dealing with the after effects from the original problem.
But it all sounds like a crock of shit to me. At this point I don't think we see him play for the Bengals again.
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(10-25-2019, 01:46 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: This makes sense. Seems like the Bengals are negotiating his return or hopefully keeping him out this week to be traded. Placed on suspension last week and now on injury list makes me think there is something going on behind the scenes.
(10-25-2019, 02:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't really know, but I am guessing that Glenn was so out of shape from not working out hard for 8 weeks that he was not physically ready to play Sunday. Not still in protocol, but still dealing with the after effects from the original problem.
But it all sounds like a crock of shit to me. At this point I don't think we see him play for the Bengals again.
I don't think the Bengals are negotiating shit. At this point, one of two things is happening:
1. Glenn is legitimately injured and is telling the truth. If that is the case, assistant coaches (looking at you, Jim Turner) shouldn't give him shit about being injured or accuse him of malingering to the point he demands a trade because most players would understandably be upset.
or
2. Glenn is malingering as many here suspect based upon incomplete reports in the media.
As a former military and current civilian PA, I've dealt with malingering or suspected malingering in the Army and with civilian Worker's Comp injuries. As a provider, if you suspect malingering you want to force a resolution as quickly as possible to rule out organic causes or reach the maximum medical improvement possible. For Glenn that would involve multiple neurologist all agreeing he doesn't have a concussion. I just don't see how that is possible. Most patients with a concussion have a normal neurological exam that doesn't require imaging to rule out a more serious injury, but that doesn't mean they don't have a concussion. While the NFL does neurocognitive testing that the Army and most employers don't do, the neurocognitive testing could return to baseline and Glenn could continue to complain of headaches, dizziness, nausea, depression, or decreased concentration which would prevent a neurologist from clearing him and those symptoms can't be proven or disproven definitively. They won't be able to prove he is malingering with a concussion. Sometimes that's just going to happen despite their best attempts otherwise. (Normal neurocognitive testing also wouldn't rule out the possibility of conversion disorder mimicking the symptoms of a concussion without a physiologic or anatomical abnormality which also doesn't point to malingering, either. I've seen one case of blindness, one case of seizures, and one case in which the patient was confined to a wheelchair because of conversion disorder and thank god I rarely see conversion disorder.)
https://centralptonline.com/files/concussion/12Feb27.pdf
Quote:Overall, any athlete with remaining symptoms or abnormal neurocognitive test results should not be returned to play.
Quote:Despite its documented value, neuropsychological assessment should not be used exclusively as the lone source of clinical information when treating sports concussions.
While that source is a few years old, it reinforces the information I have relayed. In short, if Glenn continues to complain of concussion symptoms he can't be cleared through the protocol even if his neurocognitive testing has returned to baseline.
So what do the Bengals do? If they believe him, then they don't treat him any differently than any other injured player. Like AJ Green, for example.
If they don't believe him, then they need to get rid of him as quickly as possible most likely with an injury settlement. I'll use PTSD in the military as an example since it is frequently abused by service members who want to get out of the military. If a service members legitimately has PTSD which prevents the individual from doing their job you medically separate them and get someone who can do the job. If a service member reads enough about PTSD to fake it well enough to get diagnosed with PTSD to the point they can't do their job (and it can't be proven they're malingering) you medically separate them and get someone who can do the job. Why? Because why would you want to hold on to someone who is compromising the team's ability to do their job by faking a medical condition?
At 0-7 holding onto Glenn isn't about winning, it's about money. If they think he is malingering.
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(10-25-2019, 03:11 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I don't think the Bengals are negotiating shit. At this point, one of two things is happening:
1. Glenn is legitimately injured and is telling the truth. If that is the case, assistant coaches (looking at you, Jim Turner) shouldn't give him shit about being injured or accuse him of malingering to the point he demands a trade because most players would understandably be upset.
or
2. Glenn is malingering as many here suspect based upon incomplete reports in the media.
As a former military and current civilian PA, I've dealt with malingering or suspected malingering in the Army and with civilian Worker's Comp injuries. As a provider, if you suspect malingering you want to force a resolution as quickly as possible to rule out organic causes or reach the maximum medical improvement possible. For Glenn that would involve multiple neurologist all agreeing he doesn't have a concussion. I just don't see how that is possible. Most patients with a concussion have a normal neurological exam that doesn't require imaging to rule out a more serious injury, but that doesn't mean they don't have a concussion. While the NFL does neurocognitive testing that the Army and most employers don't do, the neurocognitive testing could return to baseline and Glenn could continue to complain of headaches, dizziness, nausea, depression, or decreased concentration which would prevent a neurologist from clearing him and those symptoms can't be proven or disproven definitively. They won't be able to prove he is malingering with a concussion. Sometimes that's just going to happen despite their best attempts otherwise. (Normal neurocognitive testing also wouldn't rule out the possibility of conversion disorder mimicking the symptoms of a concussion without a physiologic or anatomical abnormality which also doesn't point to malingering, either.)
https://centralptonline.com/files/concussion/12Feb27.pdf
While that source is a few years old, it reinforces the information I have relayed. In short, if Glenn continues to complain of concussion symptoms he can't be cleared through the protocol even if his neurocognitive testing has returned to baseline.
So what do the Bengals do? If they believe him, then they don't treat him any differently than any other injured player. Like AJ Green, for example.
If they don't believe him, then they need to get rid of him as quickly as possible most likely with an injury settlement. I'll use PTSD in the military as an example since it is frequently abused by service members who want to get out of the military. If a service members legitimately has PTSD which prevents the individual from doing their job you medically separate them and get someone who can do the job. If a service member reads enough about PTSD to fake it well enough to get diagnosed with PTSD to the point they can't do their job (and it can't be proven they're malingering) you medically separate them and get someone who can do the job. Why? Because why would you want to hold on to someone who is compromising the team's ability to do their job by faking a medical condition?
At 0-7 holding onto Glenn isn't about winning, it's about money. If they think he is malingering.
Taking the medical out of it, i think he's just being a ***** and not wanting to ever have to step on the field for the Bengals again and he has the perfect opportunity to make that happen, with the inability to definitively say he's healthy.
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(10-25-2019, 03:22 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Taking the medical out of it, i think he's just being a ***** and not wanting to ever have to step on the field for the Bengals again and he has the perfect opportunity to make that happen, with the inability to definitively say he's healthy.
Taking the emotion out of it, realistically, do you think a starting LT in the NFL is a *****?
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(10-25-2019, 03:36 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Taking the emotion out of it, realistically, do you think a starting LT in the NFL is a *****?
Not at all. That was the emotional over characterization of a fan that's fed up. And it's obviously fueled by the performance of the team.
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(10-25-2019, 03:11 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: In short, if Glenn continues to complain of concussion symptoms he can't be cleared through the protocol even if his neurocognitive testing has returned to baseline.
Glenn must not be still complaining of concussion symptoms because he has been cleared through the protocol.
I have no idea what is going on with him, but everyone agrees he has been cleared.
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