Rapoport: The Bengals have told anyone who listen they don't plan on doing any deals

[Fullrock]

(10-27-2019, 01:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 1.  There is no such thing as a 3 or 4 year rebuild in the NFL.  

2.  The only way you come out ahead trading good players for draft picks is if you get multiple picks.  Otherwise you are just using the pick to replace the hole you create by sending off a good player.

 Yes, there is.  Especially in this situation. Word is that Bengals could get a 1 for AJ. I think they could get a 2 for Geno, a 3 for Dunlap, a 4 for Eifert. So next April they go into the draft with 8 picks in rounds 1-4 AND they are getting a healthy Jonah Williams which isb like having a third 1st rounder. 

You end up cutting big money off the cap and in return get a ton of players on rookie contracts which opens up a lot of money to be active in pursuing top tier free agents to fill additional holes. 

Those rookies get a year of experience along with good free agent signings and another draft in 2021 and you could rebuild this roster in 2 years towards being competitive again with a younger roster. 

Simply standing pat and watching your few aging stars play out their careers on a bad team is a recipe for a decade of futility. 

[THE PISTONS]

(10-27-2019, 12:29 PM)jj22 Wrote: ZT is seeing how bad it really is working with this FO.

They are doing him dirty in this new age NFL. It's disappointing to think no one in the family group can see what's needed to keep up and compete and sell tickets.

But the "Model" worked to keep the Paul Brown money flowing through the family, and the great grandkids has to be taken care of, so can't shake it up too much and risk Elroy's college fund.

Is he seeing how bad they FO is or is he delusional too? Some of his comments make it sound like he views close losses as wins and we're really a 5-2 team.

[fredtoast]

(10-27-2019, 01:38 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: Also, the players that are valuable on our team are rapidly deteriorating. They are old. We cannot place value on them based on what they've done in the past (which, combined, has amounted to zero playoff wins). Only their potential for the future.

You have made it clear that every player we have except Green sucks.

So you can't complain about us not trading any of them.

Other teams will obviously not offer us anything for players that suck, right?

[THE PISTONS]

(10-27-2019, 01:39 PM)Fullrock Wrote:  Yes, there is.  Especially in this situation. Word is that Bengals could get a 1 for AJ. I think they could get a 2 for Geno, a 3 for Dunlap, a 4 for Eifert. So next April they go into the draft with 8 picks in rounds 1-4 AND they are getting a healthy Jonah Williams which isb like having a third 1st rounder. 

You end up cutting big money off the cap and in return get a ton of players on rookie contracts which opens up a lot of money to be active in pursuing top tier free agents to fill additional holes. 

Those rookies get a year of experience along with good free agent signings and another draft in 2021 and you could rebuild this roster in 2 years towards being competitive again with a younger roster. 

Simply standing pat and watching your few aging stars play out their careers on a bad team is a recipe for a decade of futility. 

Sadly, I think the Bengals still view this as a playoff caliber roster...that had injuries to Green, Williams, and Glenn derail the year.

It's likely the do very little in the offseason to improve things outside of the draft.

[reuben.ahmed]

(10-27-2019, 01:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You have made it clear that every player we have except Green sucks.

So you can't complain about us not trading any of them.

Other teams will obviously not offer us anything for players that suck, right?

That's the whole point of a trade. You think you're getting more "value" than the other. Lots of other people like you out there, wanting aging talent that won't go to a pro bowl again.

Bungles are nowhere near a playoff win, that aging talent is better used for a team with short term goals. You need to trade and get value, an old Geno Atkins is not better than a question mark young drafted talent.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-27-2019, 01:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You have made it clear that every player we have except Green sucks.

So you can't complain about us not trading any of them.

Other teams will obviously not offer us anything for players that suck, right?

And that's the other side of this. The guys that fetch 1st Round picks in trades are generally young guys on rookie deals. Or mid-20 year old guys who have many years left in the league.

A 31 year old Green on the last year of his deal. Green also misses A LOT of games from injury. A 31 year old Atkins. A 30/31 year old Dunlap who puts up 8-9 sacks a year just aren't guys that teams are going to break the bank for.

[CincinnatiKid]

(10-27-2019, 12:23 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: It would be difficult because the other team will have mercy. I'm thinking a 50 burger on Taylor's ass is reasonable.

I’ll take that. I want the whole damn franchise publicly humiliated, embarrassed and ashamed

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-27-2019, 01:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: There's serious thought that we may be changing the guard at QB next year. Ask yourself would that new QB be better served with a rookie WR and RB or with AJ Green and Joe Mixon. As I showed in the link last year we were the youngest team in the NFL (and that's not even counting Doogie Taylor). How much younger to we want to get

Overall, they're  pretty young team. I would prefer AJ be here for a new QB. AJ, Ross, Boyd and Tate look, to me, like a nice stable of WRs. Throw in Mixon (who i don't want to trade) and the offense is looking good with a better line. 

I wouldn't be against trading Dre, Glenn, Geno and Los though. 

[Fullrock]

(10-27-2019, 01:41 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Sadly, I think the Bengals still view this as a playoff caliber roster...that had injuries to Green, Williams, and Glenn derail the year.

It's likely the do very little in the offseason to improve things outside of the draft.

Exactly. Business as usual at PBS, which apparently some on this board think is the best way to operate. Lol.

[fredtoast]

(10-27-2019, 01:39 PM)Fullrock Wrote:  Yes, there is.  Especially in this situation. Word is that Bengals could get a 1 for AJ. I think they could get a 2 for Geno, a 3 for Dunlap, a 4 for Eifert. So next April they go into the draft with 8 picks in rounds 1-4 AND they are getting a healthy Jonah Williams which isb like having a third 1st rounder. 

You end up cutting big money off the cap and in return get a ton of players on rookie contracts which opens up a lot of money to be active in pursuing top tier free agents to fill additional holes. 

Those rookies get a year of experience along with good free agent signings and another draft in 2021 and you could rebuild this roster in 2 years towards being competitive again with a younger roster. 

Simply standing pat and watching your few aging stars play out their careers on a bad team is a recipe for a decade of futility. 

Except pretty much no team in the league hits on all of its picks.  So we get picks in return for good players but not all of those picks will be good players.

If it was that easy then no team would ever sign a vet to a 2nd contract.  Instead they would just let him walk and replace him with a cheaper rookie draft pick.

[phil413]

We don't sign FA's because we're cutting edge and sign our own...except when we don't. We don't trade good players and nobody wants our bad ones. The next step is protecting against making mistake picks by sitting out the draft. The less we participate in, the less pressure we put on the street free agents that remain to not perform well.

[reuben.ahmed]

(10-27-2019, 01:44 PM)CincinnatiKid Wrote: I’ll take that.  I want the whole damn franchise publicly humiliated, embarrassed and ashamed

Spoken lik ea true fan, I'm with you.  :andy:

[Fullrock]

(10-27-2019, 01:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Except pretty much no team in the league hits on all of its picks.  So we get picks in return for good players but not all of those picks will be good players.

If it was that easy then no team would ever sign a vet to a 2nd contract.  Instead they would just let him walk and replace him with a cheaper rookie draft pick.

 
Except the guys we are talking about trading our on their 3rd contracts with declining production. 

[fredtoast]

(10-27-2019, 01:42 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: That's the whole point of a trade. You think you're getting more "value" than the other. Lots of other people like you out there, wanting aging talent that won't go to a pro bowl again.

Bungles are nowhere near a playoff win, that aging talent is better used for a team with short term goals. You need to trade and get value, an old Geno Atkins is not better than a question mark young drafted talent.

You still did not answer my question.

Why would any team give us anything of value for players that suck?  You think other teams are dumber than the Bengals?

If you say all the Bengals suck then you can't whine about not trading them.

[fredtoast]

(10-27-2019, 01:49 PM)Fullrock Wrote:  
Except the guys we are talking about trading our on their 3rd contracts with declining production. 

Then n o one is going to offer anything for them.

[Wes Mantooth]

(10-27-2019, 01:11 PM)bfine32 Wrote: 1.) It seems our players are committed to the organization (except Cordy) 

2.) There's absolutely nothing to suggest we could get our superstar WR and future LT healthy, make a move or two and be contenders next year.

3.) Just because you and others are ready to give up onthis team 7 games into a new regime doesn't mean the players are.

1.) Well, thank God for that. How's that working out for us?

2.) That superstar WR (Soon to be 32, missed 21 games the last 3.5 years, only 1 thousand yard season in last 4 years) and LT (Faking injury, tried to fight coach, asked to be traded) will surely fix that run defense.  Yup, just a move or two... New QB, another OL or 3, all new LB's... We'll be right in the thick of things. 

3.) Has nothing to do with the new regime and everything with the old one.  It's not 7 games, it's 30 years.  The fact they won't even entertain offers on a laundry list of players just shows there's very little that is new to tbeir approach.

I'm sorry, but if you watch this team and think we could be a couple of moves away from contending then you're a damn fool. This roster needs a complete overhaul.

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-27-2019, 11:41 AM)Fullrock Wrote: I would have no problem with them keeping AJ, Geno, and Dunlap IF they had a plan to make this team competitive which would require them to be active in bringing in significant upgrades to the roster in free agency, but we all know how they operate. No plan, no vision, just incompetence. 

Right

If they truly had a REAL plan to contend next season, trade Dalton, Eifert, Kirkpatrick, and Glenn for all the draft picks they can get. Actually get like 3 top shelf free agents, RT, RG, LBer. Draft a top QB or go get a vet QB.

It might make some sense to keep AJ, Geno, and Dunlap. But doing it Mike's way they'll be 40 before we're a contender.

[*bfine32*]

(10-27-2019, 01:53 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: 1.) Well, thank God for that. How's that working out for us?

2.) That superstar WR (Soon to be 32, missed 21 games the last 3.5 years, only 1 thousand yard season in last 4 years) and LT (Faking injury, tried to fight coach, asked to be traded) will surely fix that run defense.  Yup, just a move or two... New QB, another OL or 3, all new LB's... We'll be right in the thick of things. 

3.) Has nothing to do with the new regime and everything with the old one.  It's not 7 games, it's 30 years.  The fact they won't even entertain offers on a laundry list of players just shows there's very little that is new to tbeir approach.

I'm sorry, but if you watch this team and think we could be a couple of moves away from contending then you're a damn fool. This roster needs a complete overhaul.

To the bold: maybe, just maybe I was talking about Jonah

As to the rest: Like I said, you have no idea how much improved we'll be next year, but I can guarantee you if we trade our best players we'll be worse.

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-27-2019, 01:41 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Sadly, I think the Bengals still view this as a playoff caliber roster...that had injuries to Green, Williams, and Glenn derail the year.

It's likely the do very little in the offseason to improve things outside of the draft.

That's a bingo !

MB honestly thinks this team is close and only dumb luck and injuries have derailed them.  The same thing has happened 29 years in a row ya know ?

[Wes Mantooth]

(10-27-2019, 01:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote:  Like I said, you have no idea how much improved we'll be next year, but I can guarantee you if we trade our best players we'll be worse.

How could we be worse?!?!?! We're about to be 0-8.