How many new starters do we need to become good?

[THE PISTONS]

I'll try to do this scientifically. We're halfway through the year. I'll use PFF ratings...and say that anyone below a 60 needs replaced.

But, you also need high-end talent. Basically most of our roster is in the mid-60's or below with the exception of maybe 6-7 players. We have no guys on offense or defense in the 80's that start.

Offense:

TE: (Assuming no Eifert next year who's hovering right around 60.) Sample - 53. Uzomah - 45.4.
G: Jordan - 32.9, Price 35.6. (Pretty near the point where it's time to call Price a bust and move on.)
RT: Bobby Hart 55.0

Note: John Jerry is right around 60. He's been fairly solid. Jonah will obviously replace him.

Honestly, people act like the entire line has been bad...but it really hasn't. There are only 3 starters rated below 60 on offense.

Which leads be to think that the issues are more playcalling/scheme than players.

Defense:
3rd CB: Webb - 57.1
S: Bates - 45.9
S: Williams - 52.0
LB: Pratt - 42.7
LB: Brown - 44.5
LB: Vigil - 50.4


So that's about 8-9 guys that play regularly that are playing extremely poor. Almost HALF of our starters.

Jonah/Glenn would replace Jerry who's actually been a decent Tackle.

Then, AJ Green would replace another WR...but the WR ratings aren't terrible. They're in the low 70's. So there's some upgrade there.

[*psychdoctor*]

OT
guard
guard
backer
backer
QB
WR
DB
DB
DE

I would say 9-10

[THE PISTONS]

(10-28-2019, 01:03 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: OT
guard
guard
backer
backer
QB
WR
DB
DB
DE

I would say 9-10

I agree.

[Au165]

8 maybe 9.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(10-28-2019, 12:45 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I'll try to do this scientifically. We're halfway through the year. I'll use PFF ratings...and say that anyone below a 60 needs replaced.

But, you also need high-end talent. Basically most of our roster is in the mid-60's or below with the exception of maybe 6-7 players. We have no guys on offense or defense in the 80's that start.

Offense:

TE: (Assuming no Eifert next year who's hovering right around 60.) Sample - 53. Uzomah - 45.4.
G: Jordan - 32.9, Price 35.6. (Pretty near the point where it's time to call Price a bust and move on.)
RT: Bobby Hart 55.0

Note: John Jerry is right around 60. He's been fairly solid. Jonah will obviously replace him.

Honestly, people act like the entire line has been bad...but it really hasn't. There are only 3 starters rated below 60 on offense.

Which leads be to think that the issues are more playcalling/scheme than players.

Defense:
3rd CB: Webb - 57.1
S: Bates - 45.9
S: Williams - 52.0
LB: Pratt - 42.7
LB: Brown - 44.5
LB: Vigil - 50.4


So that's about 8-9 guys that play regularly that are playing extremely poor. Almost HALF of our starters.

Jonah/Glenn would replace Jerry who's actually been a decent Tackle.

Then, AJ Green would replace another WR...but the WR ratings aren't terrible. They're in the low 70's. So there's some upgrade there.

So you're saying that Jim Turner has done a better job than people have credited him for and that Sample wasn't as bad a pick as people make out as he's already outplaying Uzomah (and as a rookie can be expected to step up a level next year).... 

Surprised to see Pratt so low after everyone said he couldn't possibly be worse than Vigil or Brown. It seems like PFF says the Bengals were right with their draft grades as Sample > Pratt > Jordan. 

[THE PISTONS]

(10-28-2019, 03:05 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: So you're saying that Jim Turner has done a better job than people have credited him for and that Sample wasn't as bad a pick as people make out as he's already outplaying Uzomah (and as a rookie can be expected to step up a level next year).... 

Surprised to see Pratt so low after everyone said he couldn't possibly be worse than Vigil or Brown. It seems like PFF says the Bengals were right with their draft grades as Sample > Pratt > Jordan. 

You're missing the overall big picture of...all 3 of their ratings are terrible.

[Clark W Griswold]

22

[*ochocincos*]

(10-28-2019, 01:03 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: OT
guard
guard
backer
backer
QB
WR
DB
DB
DE

I would say 9-10

For me, it's:
QB
3 OL
2 LB
1-2 DL (nickel DT for sure)
1 CB


I think Darius Phillips can be a solid 3rd CB, and he was doing really well until he got hurt.
I think WRs are fine with Green, Boyd, Ross, and Tate.

Realistically, you're only going to get 3 immediate quality contributors from the draft at best, so they can't just rely on the 2020 draft to get there.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-28-2019, 03:18 PM)ochocincos Wrote: For me, it's:
QB
3 OL
2 LB
1-2 DL (nickel DT for sure)
1 CB


I think Darius Phillips can be a solid 3rd CB, and he was doing really well until he got hurt.
I think WRs are fine with Green, Boyd, Ross, and Tate.

Realistically, you're only going to get 3 immediate quality contributors from the draft, so they can't just rely on the 2020 draft to get there.

3 quality contributors Day 1 from a draft is a huge ask. We're lucky if we get 1.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-28-2019, 03:32 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: 3 quality contributors Day 1 from a draft is a huge ask. We're lucky if we get 1.

True. I should have put "at best" in there.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-28-2019, 03:34 PM)ochocincos Wrote: True. I should have put "at best" in there.

In some of our really good drafts early in Marvin's tenure...we'd get 3-4 quality starters. Some wouldn't become quality starters for a year or two.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

53.

[BengalChris]

(10-28-2019, 12:45 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I'll try to do this scientifically. We're halfway through the year. I'll use PFF ratings...and say that anyone below a 60 needs replaced.

But, you also need high-end talent. Basically most of our roster is in the mid-60's or below with the exception of maybe 6-7 players. We have no guys on offense or defense in the 80's that start.

Offense:

TE: (Assuming no Eifert next year who's hovering right around 60.) Sample - 53. Uzomah - 45.4.
G: Jordan - 32.9, Price 35.6. (Pretty near the point where it's time to call Price a bust and move on.)
RT: Bobby Hart 55.0

Note: John Jerry is right around 60. He's been fairly solid. Jonah will obviously replace him.

Honestly, people act like the entire line has been bad...but it really hasn't. There are only 3 starters rated below 60 on offense.

Which leads be to think that the issues are more playcalling/scheme than players.

Defense:
3rd CB: Webb - 57.1
S: Bates - 45.9
S: Williams - 52.0
LB: Pratt - 42.7
LB: Brown - 44.5
LB: Vigil - 50.4


So that's about 8-9 guys that play regularly that are playing extremely poor. Almost HALF of our starters.

Jonah/Glenn would replace Jerry who's actually been a decent Tackle.

Then, AJ Green would replace another WR...but the WR ratings aren't terrible. They're in the low 70's. So there's some upgrade there.

The secondary is capable of playing better. They did last season after Austin was fired. If they had good backers in front of them and a better scheme they'd show better in the stats.

The coaching staff is the worst part of this team, besides Mike Brown, of course.

 

[NATI BENGALS]

Let me do some math real quick. Assuming we work out a blockbuster trade that fails because we didnt get the paperwork in on time, we will have the same team.

Hubbard Dunlap Geno Bates WJ3

Boyd Mixon AJ Jonah Hopkins

Not as bad as I thought. With some wishful thinking looks like we only need 12 new starters

[Circleville Guy]

The answer doesn’t bede too well for next year!

[*bfine32*]

We need 22 starters to become good,

[THE PISTONS]

(10-28-2019, 09:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: We need 22 starters to become good,

And that's the rub. In the NBA, you get the top pick and generally get a star and it changes your franchise.

Here, 1 star means nothing. You need all 22 positions with atleast capable players.