Is there a plan, after all ?

[*ochocincos*]

(10-30-2019, 09:19 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2019/10/30/bengals-trade-deadline-fans-complicated/

"But maybe that’s what Taylor has done here — implemented a plan. By all outward-facing measures, the front office has bent over backward to grant his every request, even taking the hit with the Jim Turner hire. Now Dalton is a clipboard holder on the sidelines.

So maybe, just maybe, a coherent vision has now been established. Frustration at the lack of moves because it matches the tired, established pattern is fair — but making a change at head coach, then shoving aside Dalton is a dramatic swerve from the usual".

Have they really ?

Was giving Dalton a shot then moving on to Finley been the plan all along ? Keeping Dolegala when we could obviously use another Olineman or LBer sorta hints at that ?

But why did they not trade Dalton ? Were they trying and just didn't get any offers they deemed good enough ?

Perhaps there is more going on here than it seems on the surface ?

If the FO is really doing everything Taylor is asking, it says a lot about Taylor. If he doesn't see that the coaching staff he's hired and the players he's brought in through FA and the draft haven't helped the team, he's delusional or blind.

News flash for him: AJ Green and Jonah Williams alone are not turning this team into a contender. Their LG, RG, and RT are bad. All their LBs are bad (LT is bad too but assuming Williams swaps back in there and we don't know his performance yet). Their DL cannot stop the run or get to the QB quick enough. Their DBs cannot cover long enough. They didn't properly utilize TE until the Rams game. They re-signed two TEs in FA yet still used a 2nd round pick on TE, only to have him barely play. They don't realize that Mixon can actually play all three downs. They signed Bernard to a (relatively) big extension when he's not even RB1.

[BengalChris]

(10-30-2019, 09:19 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2019/10/30/bengals-trade-deadline-fans-complicated/

"But maybe that’s what Taylor has done here — implemented a plan. By all outward-facing measures, the front office has bent over backward to grant his every request, even taking the hit with the Jim Turner hire. Now Dalton is a clipboard holder on the sidelines.

So maybe, just maybe, a coherent vision has now been established. Frustration at the lack of moves because it matches the tired, established pattern is fair — but making a change at head coach, then shoving aside Dalton is a dramatic swerve from the usual".

Have they really ?

Was giving Dalton a shot then moving on to Finley been the plan all along ? Keeping Dolegala when we could obviously use another Olineman or LBer sorta hints at that ?

But why did they not trade Dalton ? Were they trying and just didn't get any offers they deemed good enough ?

Perhaps there is more going on here than it seems on the surface ?

Well, if they were trying to trade someone they sure did hide it behind all the "we aren't trading anyone" comments.

If there is a plan, it's a plan that led to an 0-8 record and a bunch of regressing veterans.

It's time for a change at HC. I've already seen enough to know that this doesn't have a good ending. And I don't see any reason to wait until the end of next season or the season after to pull the trigger. It's hard to do it now though because there's no one on the coaching staff to take the HC spot on an interim basis until the end of this season.

 

[THE PISTONS]

(10-30-2019, 10:57 AM)ochocincos Wrote: If the FO is really doing everything Taylor is asking, it says a lot about Taylor. If he doesn't see that the coaching staff he's hired and the players he's brought in through FA and the draft haven't helped the team, he's delusional or blind.

News flash for him: AJ Green and Jonah Williams alone are not turning this team into a contender. Their LG, RG, and RT are bad. All their LBs are bad (LT is bad too but assuming Williams swaps back in there and we don't know his performance yet). Their DL cannot stop the run or get to the QB quick enough. Their DBs cannot cover long enough. They didn't properly utilize TE until the Rams game. They re-signed two TEs in FA yet still used a 2nd round pick on TE, only to have him barely play. They don't realize that Mixon can actually play all three downs. They signed Bernard to a (relatively) big extension when he's not even RB1.

Agreed.

I think the only solace in the Taylor hiring could be that the management here is just terribly inept. But, IF Taylor is calling the shots...we're doomed.

Also, part of that is that they bought the McVay hype and hired a HC that just isn't qualified. I don't know if any other NFL Teams would have even hired Taylor as their offensive coordinator...let alone HC.

[XenoMorph]

(10-30-2019, 10:20 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: I totally get what you’re saying.  Like Mike Brown, Zac Taylor only understands the quarterback position.  The “birthday benching” was a message from Zac to Andy:  “You were Marvin’s guy.  Ryan Finley is my guy.”

Although I truly hope Ryan Finley lights up every team he faces, I’m not certain this will happen; not behind the shitty offensive line.

it was completely class less on ZT and the bengals part for a guy that's been nothing but class.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-30-2019, 11:49 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: it was completely class less on ZT and the bengals part for a guy that's been nothing but class.

Yeah...IF anything you close practice and install Finley as starter and announce it later.

Dalton was the scapegoat. It's obvious.

[WeezyBengal]

(10-30-2019, 09:19 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2019/10/30/bengals-trade-deadline-fans-complicated/

"But maybe that’s what Taylor has done here — implemented a plan. By all outward-facing measures, the front office has bent over backward to grant his every request, even taking the hit with the Jim Turner hire. Now Dalton is a clipboard holder on the sidelines.

So maybe, just maybe, a coherent vision has now been established. Frustration at the lack of moves because it matches the tired, established pattern is fair — but making a change at head coach, then shoving aside Dalton is a dramatic swerve from the usual".

Have they really ?

Was giving Dalton a shot then moving on to Finley been the plan all along ? Keeping Dolegala when we could obviously use another Olineman or LBer sorta hints at that ?

But why did they not trade Dalton ? Were they trying and just didn't get any offers they deemed good enough ?

Perhaps there is more going on here than it seems on the surface ?

Is this a joke? 

[THE PISTONS]

(10-30-2019, 12:00 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Is this a joke? 

It's possible that they signed the guys he wanted. I mean most of the free agents we signed from outside had ties to the coaching staff in some way.

[THE PISTONS]

The plan was to hire this guy and make him HC and OC:

Taylor was the Bearcats’ offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach in Tommy Tuberville’s final season, a 4-8 campaign in which UC ranked 123rd of 128 teams in scoring offense with just 19.3 points per game.

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-30-2019, 10:57 AM)ochocincos Wrote: If the FO is really doing everything Taylor is asking, it says a lot about Taylor. If he doesn't see that the coaching staff he's hired and the players he's brought in through FA and the draft haven't helped the team, he's delusional or blind.

News flash for him: AJ Green and Jonah Williams alone are not turning this team into a contender. Their LG, RG, and RT are bad. All their LBs are bad (LT is bad too but assuming Williams swaps back in there and we don't know his performance yet). Their DL cannot stop the run or get to the QB quick enough. Their DBs cannot cover long enough. They didn't properly utilize TE until the Rams game. They re-signed two TEs in FA yet still used a 2nd round pick on TE, only to have him barely play. They don't realize that Mixon can actually play all three downs. They signed Bernard to a (relatively) big extension when he's not even RB1.

Spot on

If there was "a plan" it was a very bad one. Convoluted, jacked up mess of a plan. Par for the course in Bengal land I guess.

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-30-2019, 11:47 AM)BengalChris Wrote: Well, if they were trying to trade someone they sure did hide it behind all the "we aren't trading anyone" comments.

If there is a plan, it's a plan that led to an 0-8 record and a bunch of regressing veterans.

It's time for a change at HC. I've already seen enough to know that this doesn't have a good ending. And I don't see any reason to wait until the end of next season or the season after to pull the trigger. It's hard to do it now though because there's no one on the coaching staff to take the HC spot on an interim basis until the end of this season.

 

Every game that goes by I lean a little more this way.

It's early I know, but it seems ZT isn't learning at all. In fact it seems he's regressing ! I highly doubt there's a change coming anytime soon though.

[THE PISTONS]

Taylor definitely had a say in free agents and roster. From the owners meetings:

1. How does the process in free agency work with a franchise like Cincinnati?

"We sit down and talk about our roster in and out. What is best for us? What do you think? What do you think? ‘OK we like this guy, let’s pursue this guy.’ It has been as clear and open communication as I’ve ever been around. I’ve got a ton or respect for (Bengals player personnel director) Duke (Tobin) and his staff. They are diligent workers. Tireless. It’s been a really fun process for the whole coaching staff. There’s no egos involved. That’s the key. Everyone can say how they feel. Have an open discussion about it and then proceed accordingly. That’s been really fun to go through with Duke and his staff."

Among the moves made in free agency, the Bengals re-signed right tackle Hart to a three-year, $21 million contract. The move raised eyebrows due to Hart's Pro Football Focus 2018 rank (54th overall tackle out of 61 qualifiers) the 39 pressures and 10 sacks he allowed and 14 penalties committed, including nine false starts.

Taylor: "I think Bobby has a lot of great tools that we're excited to work with. When you factor in him and the tackle market, he's somebody that I'm really excited to work with and I know Jim Turner feels that way and Brian Callahan feels that way. We all watched the same tape, had the same evaluation, came to the same conclusion. That's where we're at with Bobby and we were excited to get him resigned and have him back with that right tackle spot."

But how does a coaching staff address an issue like the penalties?

Taylor: "I'm not overly concerned about that stuff. I mean, we go through and watch every – the run game, pass protection, penalties, all that stuff. We felt very comfortable bringing him back."  

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2019/03/26/cincinnati-bengals-zac-taylor-nfl-owners-meetings-andy-dalton-bobby-hart/3283660002/

[THE PISTONS]

2. Taylor said Andy Dalton could be the franchise quarterback for many years to come.

Taylor: "I think Andy is unique because I feel like I've watched him his entire career. When I was Texas A&M and he was at TCU, I was always really impressed with (former TCU co-OC) Justin Fuente. Consequently you end up watching a lot. I was a college coach so I didn't really care about Andy Dalton at that point, but when you're studying 13 games of tape, you're watching the starting quarterback. He was undefeated. I was really impressed with that. From that moment on, I feel like I was invested in his career at an early age. Then I was in the AFC with the Dolphins, so we played the Bengals twice. So I've been watching tape of Andy since 2010, always been very impressed. I don't have concerns about his ability to learn this offense and perform at a high level in this offense because he's been exposed to a lot of systems, some very similar to this. I worked with Bill Lazor, who was his coordinator the last two years. So I know a lot of the components, which is great, because Bill was a great coach so I know what he's been asked to do these last few years. It's really a good starting point for us. We haven't gotten started, but I don't expect any surprises when we're in meeting rooms and on the field. I've watched hours of tape on the guy and I feel like I have a good feel for his personality." 

Can Taylor's take on the West Coast offense unlock something new in eight-year veteran Dalton's abilities? 

Taylor: "I think it's not necessarily unlocking anything. I think this offense helps the quarterback because you place such an emphasis on the run game. Everything is built off of that. That's good for any quarterback. I haven't gotten into any specifics with him, but I imagine he's excited."

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-30-2019, 12:19 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Taylor: "I think it's not necessarily unlocking anything. I think this offense helps the quarterback because you place such an emphasis on the run game. Everything is built off of that. That's good for any quarterback. I haven't gotten into any specifics with him, but I imagine he's excited."

He's placed emphasis on the run game ? It's hard to tell.

[RunKijanaRun]

[BengalChris]

(10-30-2019, 12:15 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Every game that goes by I lean a little more this way.

It's early I know, but it seems ZT isn't learning at all. In fact it seems he's regressing ! I highly doubt there's a change coming anytime soon though.

Sad, but that is probably how it will play out. Mike Brown kept Dave Shula around for 5 years. I know that's hard to imagine, but he did.

I do agree with you on ZT regressing.

 

[Circleville Guy]

The most likely theory is that MB doesn’t care, there isn’t any master plan and this is just how things are playing out.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-30-2019, 01:20 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Sad, but that is probably how it will play out. Mike Brown kept Dave Shula around for 5 years. I know that's hard to imagine, but he did.

I do agree with you on ZT regressing.

 

Shula won 5 games in his 1st year and had 5 moral victories. I think we'd all take that!

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-30-2019, 10:23 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: That's been one of my bigger fears for a couple weeks now. We do the dead cat bounce and win 3 or 4 of the last 5 and MB says "see, we had it right all along".

It's like you and Pistons read my mind. I proposed this same scenario in a Facebook group yesterday. Scares the shit out of me, to be honest.

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-30-2019, 01:31 PM)Wyche Wrote: It's like you and Pistons read my mind. I proposed this same scenario in a Facebook group yesterday. Scares the shit out of me, to be honest.

I can hear MB right now in the post season presser. "We had some struggles early, we expected this, injuries kicked in and derailed our plans. We like where we are now, we improved a lot in the end. There's no need for any rebuild."

Which is code for we're gonna sit on our hands in free agency again and do little to fix this team, even though we're still in win now mode.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-30-2019, 01:31 PM)Wyche Wrote: It's like you and Pistons read my mind. I proposed this same scenario in a Facebook group yesterday. Scares the shit out of me, to be honest.

It happens A LOT.

And honestly, Bengals management isn't too hard to figure out. Give them something that they can consider hope for standing pat...and they'll do it.

aka Injuries heal. 3 wins late in the year out of 4 games...that's 12 win pace over the course of a year.