Are there any optimists left?

[*jason*]

(10-31-2019, 08:47 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: If they would win seven they would be better than Marvin? If Marvin was so great why hasn't some other team hired him? 

Marvin's goofing off with his friends in Arizona collecting money from Mike Brown, AND Arizona St. Why the hell would he want another NFL job?

People can dog Marvin Lewis all they want, but the cold hard truth is... Marvin Lewis was the only thing holding this doo doo franchise together for 16 years and 7 playoff appearances.

Before Marvin... Trash. After Marvin.... trash.

That man worked miracles around here.

I can't wait to hear some people's takes on the new QB after the game next Sunday.

[Sled21]

Looking at the actual scores of the games we lost, and the players not available to play, I am very optimistic. Does anyone really think we are 0-8 if Green, Ross, Williams, etc were available and played in those losses?

[mt415tress]

(10-31-2019, 11:02 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Looking at the actual scores of the games we lost, and the players not available to play, I am very optimistic. Does anyone really think we are 0-8 if Green, Ross, Williams, etc were available and played  in those losses?

Lol.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-31-2019, 11:02 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Looking at the actual scores of the games we lost, and the players not available to play, I am very optimistic. Does anyone really think we are 0-8 if Green, Ross, Williams, etc were available and played  in those losses?

Green has played in 22 of his last 43 games. Ross has played in 20 of his last 40 games.

Great...if we somehow had them all healthy the team would possibly be 1-7 or 2-8.

Dare to hope!

[Catmandude123]

(10-31-2019, 11:52 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So maybe we'd be 1-7 or 2-6 instead?

In 1 of the close games you cite...we didn't have a single 1st down in the 1st half.

Plus, our defense is historically terrible in yards allowed. For all we know, IF we scored more on offense...the other teams would just attack more aggressively and still beat us.

So stop being so secretive. Are you enthusiastic about the Bengals or not.

[Catmandude123]

I'm a whole lot more enthusiastic about the team now that change has started. I cringed every time I thought about being stuck with AD through another contract. We should have known there was going to be a learning curve with ZT. New coordinators will help. Change is coming it just won't magically be better overnight.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-31-2019, 11:56 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: So stop being so secretive. Are you enthusiastic about the Bengals or not.

IF I were going to make a list of all of the things that could be wrong with an NFL franchise...I'd find most of them on the Bengals.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-31-2019, 12:03 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: I'm a whole lot more enthusiastic about the team now that change has started. I cringed every time I thought about being stuck with AD through another contract. We should have known there was going to be a learning curve with ZT. New coordinators will help. Change is coming it just won't magically be better overnight.

A decent front office knows that you don't put an extremely inexperienced HC in charge and then give him all inexperienced coordinators.

And just because he gets a year or 2 years or 3 years...doesn't mean he will get better.

Taylor is a TERRIBLE OC. This is the 3rd stop he's been terrible at. He's not going to miraculously get better.

You literally have the entire team regressing minus a few guys.

[Catmandude123]

(10-31-2019, 12:03 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: IF I were going to make a list of all of the things that could be wrong with an NFL franchise...I'd find most of them on the Bengals.

So you are saying there is nowhere to go but up? So I guess you are enthusiastic about the future. Welcome aboard!!!!

[THE PISTONS]

(10-31-2019, 12:08 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: So you are saying there is nowhere to go but up? So I guess you are enthusiastic about the future. Welcome aboard!!!!

Actually, I was reading some columnists saying that by the Bengals refusal to make ANY trades that we likely haven't bottomed out yet.

But, from 0-8...how could it get worse?

[BengalChris]

(10-31-2019, 08:47 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: If they would win seven they would be better than Marvin? If Marvin was so great why hasn't some other team hired him? 

I've never said Marvin was great, but he at least put up wins. We all could see the things Marvin couldn't get done.

But Taylor has turned out to be significantly worse.

If you replace a player with a worse player it will hurt the team to a degree. We've all seen this front office cast aside good players and replace them with sub-par picks or bargain bin free agents.

But when you replace a coaching staff with a worse coaching staff, the entire team regresses (save a couple of exceptions, which are very few).

Taylor was a mistake, big mistake.

 

[THE PISTONS]

(10-31-2019, 12:10 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I've never said Marvin was great, but he at least put up wins. We all could see the things Marvin couldn't get done.

But Taylor has turned out to be significantly worse.

If you replace a player with a worse player it will hurt the team to a degree. We've all seen this front office cast aside good players and replace them with sub-par picks or bargain bin free agents.

But when you replace a coaching staff with a worse coaching staff, the entire team regresses (save a couple of exceptions, which are very few).

Taylor was a mistake, big mistake.

 

Yes - And to the people who think we'll turn this around in one year...we've had the same issues for 4 years - Offensive Line. LB. Now there are more issues.

[THE PISTONS]

The Bengals had far and away the most to win or lose at the trade deadline. And true to form this season, they got trounced: https://t.co/RgXpqF8Jix

— Jason La Canfora (@JasonLaCanfora) October 30, 2019

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[*PhilHos*]

(10-31-2019, 12:06 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Taylor is a TERRIBLE OC. This is the 3rd stop he's been terrible at. He's not going to miraculously get better.

Right because in his other 2 stops he was given 2 or more years to improve and he STILL hasn't improved.

Just because this is his 3rd stop and the offense is crap doesn't mean he won't improve. Assuming he stays OC he's entire tenure here, this will be the first time he's had a chance to be an OC past the first year in the same place. 

I'm not saying he WILL improve but, God damn, give him a chance to improve before making declarative statements about him .

[Catmandude123]

(10-31-2019, 12:10 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I've never said Marvin was great, but he at least put up wins. We all could see the things Marvin couldn't get done.

But Taylor has turned out to be significantly worse.

If you replace a player with a worse player it will hurt the team to a degree. We've all seen this front office cast aside good players and replace them with sub-par picks or bargain bin free agents.

But when you replace a coaching staff with a worse coaching staff, the entire team regresses (save a couple of exceptions, which are very few).

Taylor was a mistake, big mistake.

 

So you want to berate the front office for not getting players which caused the benching but want to rave about a coach who had ,some say, the most talent in the league. Your anger should be pointed to the front office instead of a coach who is basically learning on the job. Marvin took us to the playoffs SEVEN times in his 18 years but failed every time to advance. Zt may also fail, RF may fail, the new QB (whoever that will be) may fail but I for one am tired of watching reruns of ineptitude. When I watch now I still won't be happy if things don't go the Bengals way but it won't feel like I am entrapped in a episode of groundhog day.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-31-2019, 12:25 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Right because in his other 2 stops he was given 2 or more years to improve and he STILL hasn't improved.

Just because this is his 3rd stop and the offense is crap doesn't mean he won't improve. Assuming he stays OC he's entire tenure here, this will be the first time he's had a chance to be an OC past the first year in the same place. 

I'm not saying he WILL improve but, God damn, give him a chance to improve before making declarative statements about him .

He had the 123rd out of 128th ranked offense at UC. You think they were going to give him a 2nd year?

Also, in Miami he took over for Bill Lazor and made the offense WORSE.

Those teams weren't going to keep him. More time can destroy the players.

I can make this declarative statement: He's not some intuitive offensive expert. The intuitive guys get 1 opportunity and run with it and show that they are bright offensive minds. He's not that.

Then the question becomes...could he learn to be a good playcaller? Maybe...but it's easier to just hire a guy.

Jay Gruden had arena league coaching experience and came here and was a good OC right from the beginning for instance.

And here we are saying Taylor needs more years to develop.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-31-2019, 12:26 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: So you want to berate the front office for not getting players which caused the benching but want to rave about a coach who had ,some say, the most talent in the league. Your anger should be pointed to the front office instead of a coach who is basically learning on the job. Marvin took us to the playoffs SEVEN times in his 18 years but failed every time to advance. Zt may also fail, RF may fail, the new QB (whoever that will be) may fail but I for one am tired of watching reruns of ineptitude. When I watch now I still won't be happy if things don't go the Bengals way but it won't feel like I am entrapped in a episode of groundhog day.

Honestly...Marvin was probably responsible for taking the team from 90's level bad to respectable atleast…

And not just from coaching but from other aspects of running a team. He likely bumped up against resistance though as there's only so much you can do.

I'm pulling for him to get another HC job to see what he can do.

[BengalChris]

(10-31-2019, 12:26 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: So you want to berate the front office for not getting players which caused the benching but want to rave about a coach who had ,some say, the most talent in the league. Your anger should be pointed to the front office instead of a coach who is basically learning on the job. Marvin took us to the playoffs SEVEN times in his 18 years but failed every time to advance. Zt may also fail, RF may fail, the new QB (whoever that will be) may fail but I for one am tired of watching reruns of ineptitude. When I watch now I still won't be happy if things don't go the Bengals way but it won't feel like I am entrapped in a episode of groundhog day.

I've never said anything about the benching of Dalton. I'm talking about the complete lack of wins where there were wins before.

ZT has already failed, there is no "going to fail", it's already done.

 

[R3stangs]

I'm very optimistic about the likelihood that we will continue to lose a lot of games.

[THE PISTONS]

People blame the offensive line, but:

Zac Taylor is confident that Bengals have Clint Boling replacement on roster
https://www.cincyjungle.com/2019/7/16/20696115/zac-taylor-is-confident-that-bengals-have-clint-boling-replacement

I posted quotes yesterday where Taylor said how he and the staff liked Hart.