Per Jason La Canfora, Dalton, offseason.

[Pat5775]

(11-08-2019, 10:42 AM)jj22 Wrote: If we are giving Palmer credit for leading his team to the playoffs 2 out of 8 years, why are we taking shots at the qb who led the team to the playoffs 5 out of 9?

Which QB would you guys choose.
A. The one who led a far better veteran team to the playoffs 2/8 years.
B. The one that led their team to the playoffs 5/9 years.

Ok, settle down.

Dalton had way more complete teams and better coordinators around him than Carson ever did in Cincy. We can only imagine how things would have been in Cincy if Carson stayed and Dalton was never drafted. Personally, I think things would have been better. Especially given what Carson did in Arizona. Carson never got to throw to AJ Green, either.

[Luvnit2]

(11-08-2019, 10:53 AM)fredtoast Wrote:
The best way to increase your odds of pickinga great player is to have more picks.

I am not suggesting we trade out of the first round.  It just seems that top 5 picks are over valued.

I have seen you say this a lot. I think you are partly correct. If your scouting department is not scouting specific players for a specific system and just drafting talent, they likely will fail.

The Steeler's are a classic example. They know their system, they know the player that need in their system to make not only the player succeed, but the team.

Then, they go out and draft, trade or add FA's. to fit the team system, grab guys who fit in their mold.

The Pats do the same. Yes, they both have had HOF QB's at the head, one has a HOF coach, the other had an average to good coach (Tomlin) in my opinion, but Tomlin just came in and continued the Steeler's system with a few tweaks.

[jj22]

(11-08-2019, 11:11 AM)Pat5775 Wrote: Ok, settle down.

Dalton had way more complete teams and better coordinators around him than Carson ever did in Cincy. We can only imagine how things would have been in Cincy if Carson stayed and Dalton was never drafted. Personally, I think things would have been better. Especially given what Carson did in Arizona. Carson never got to throw to AJ Green, either.

Really? When did Dalton have a run game or running attack better than Rudi/Perry?

What wide receiver trio was better than Ocho, Housh, Henry etc?

The Oline? When did he have a better center/RT/LT combo?

When did he have a rookie OC from the arena league?

Defense. Let's talk Defense.

When did Dalton have probowl corners with 10+ interceptions?

When has the DLine rotation been better than the Fanene/Rucker rotation that spearheaded those top 10 runs?

Lb's. Do we really want to go there outside of Burfict?

The Palmer era had far more established talent and free agent signings. Indisputable. But if you choosing A then just say so. Be proud of it. Own it.

Dalton had 3 bad seasons in 9 years not including last year when they were on fire on offense and 5-3 before injuries hit.

You aren't going to find a 9 year vet with that record in free agency very often. And with only 3 other teams (maybe 4) with better runs in the league, you won't find many other fanbase turning their nose up to it either.

[jj22]

(11-08-2019, 11:01 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: I do really loathe those seasons. Filled with so much promise five years straight only to come to a train wreck at the end of season. Then having to suffer four years in a row because some people can't seem to let go of those "GLORY DAYS".

You aren't going to find many other people letting go of those glory days for 0-8 seasons.

When the new QB leads us to 5 playoff seasons in 9 years then sure it'll happen.

Until then, don't you miss winning?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-08-2019, 10:42 AM)jj22 Wrote: If we are giving Palmer credit for leading his team to the playoffs 2 out of 8 years, why are we taking shots at the qb who led the team to the playoffs 5 out of 9?

Which QB would you guys choose.
A. The one who led a far better veteran team to the playoffs 2/8 years.
B. The one that led their team to the playoffs 5/9 years.

I would take Palmer any day over Dalton.

Funny that it’s always the whole team’s fault for no playoff wins, but apparently it was all Dalton that got them there every time...

Should we get into who had the better coaches next?

[jj22]

(11-08-2019, 11:37 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I would take Palmer any day over Dalton.

Funny that it’s always the whole team’s fault for no playoff wins, but apparently it was all Dalton that got them there every time...

Should we get into who had the better coaches next?

Sure. Who had the rookie OC from the arena league?

How many top 10 Offenses did Gruden have under his belt?

How many did Brat have?

Anderson, still the greatest RB coach we've had and our run game hasn't been the same sense.

The Piano man? Well even his Olines are looking pretty good now.

All other coaches on Offense were pretty much retained.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-08-2019, 11:23 AM)jj22 Wrote: Really? When did Dalton have a run game or running attack better than Rudi/Perry?

What wide receiver trio was better than Ocho, Housh, Henry etc?

The Oline? When did he have a better center/RT/LT combo?

When did he have a rookie OC from the arena league?

Defense. Let's talk Defense.

When did Dalton have probowl corners with 10+ interceptions?

When has the DLine rotation been better than the Fanene/Rucker rotation that spearheaded those top 10 runs?

Lb's. Do we really want to go there outside of Burfict?

The Palmer era had far more established talent and free agent signings. Indisputable. But if you choosing A then just say so. Be proud of it. Own it.

Dalton had 3 bad seasons in 9 years not including last year when they were on fire on offense and 5-3 before injuries hit.

You aren't going to find a 9 year vet with that record in free agency very often. And with only 3 other teams (maybe 4) with better runs in the league, you won't find many other fanbase turning their nose up to it either.

You can’t be serious with that one? Who did Palmer have at OC that was better than Jay or Hue?

[jj22]

(11-08-2019, 11:41 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You can’t be serious with that one? Who did Palmer have at OC that was better than Jay or Hue?

Hmm I don't know. You want to compare the number of top 10 offenses that Brat had in his career to Jay's or Hue (1 good year as OC) playcalling record? I'm not quite sure you do.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-08-2019, 11:40 AM)jj22 Wrote: Sure. Who had the rookie OC from the arena league?

How many top 10 Offenses did Gruden have under his belt?

How many did Brat have?

Anderson, still the greatest RB coach we've had and our run game hasn't been the same sense.

The Piano man? Well even his Olines are looking pretty good now.

All other coaches on Offense were pretty much retained.

You’re really scrapping the bottom of the Dalton excuse barrel when you use Brat as an example for your argument lol

[jj22]

I'm not trying to be rude, but you might want to check Brat's record.

Sure he ran his course here towards the end there, but again, before you put your foot down, you may want to look.

Here's a hint. He's had more consistent top offenses in the league then Jay or Hue has ever had.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-08-2019, 11:43 AM)jj22 Wrote: Hmm I don't know. You want to compare the number of top 10 offenses that Brat had in his career to Jay's or Hue (1 good year as OC) playcalling record? I'm not quite sure you do.

Was Hue or Jay fired? Oh that’s right they both landed HC jobs...

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-08-2019, 11:45 AM)jj22 Wrote: I'm not trying to be rude, but you might want to check Brat's record.

Sure he ran his course here towards the end there, but again, before you put your foot down, you may want to look.

Here's a hint. He's had more consistent top offenses in the league then Jay or Hue has ever had.

Because he had a better QB and WRs like Chad and TJ.

[jj22]

(11-08-2019, 11:48 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Was Hue or Jay fired? Oh that’s right they both landed HC jobs...

Hold on, let me grab my binoculars to see where the goal post is now.

[jj22]

(11-08-2019, 11:49 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Because he had a better QB and WRs like Chad and TJ.

Ok well you are slowly awakening. Keep on coming to the light.

So you agree, the talent was better during that 2/7 playoff run?

And a lesser quality QB was able to go on a 5/9 run with less.

So isn't that props to Dalton? Such a pitiful QB shouldn't have sniffed that record playoff run.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-08-2019, 11:49 AM)jj22 Wrote: Hold on, let me grab my binoculars to see where the goal post is now.

Palmer>Dalton, IMO

Neither of us are changing our minds though, so we can just agree to disagree. can at least take some validation knowing the majority of unbiased non-Bengals fans agree with me though.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-08-2019, 11:52 AM)jj22 Wrote: Ok well you are slowly awakening. Keep on coming to the light.

So you agree, the talent was better during that 2/7 playoff run?

And a lesser quality QB was able to go on a 5/9 run with less.

So isn't that props to Dalton? Such a pitiful QB shouldn't have sniffed that record playoff run.

Palmer’s teams were NOT more talented. Nobody and I mean NOBODY was talking about those teams having one of the deepest rosters like they did the 13-15 teams.

And I never said Dalton was pitiful. He was solid for a few years, great for part of one, and sucked the rest.

[jj22]

Palmer was a far superior talent at QB yes. 1st overall pick prospect. Was he a better QB tho? That's debatable. Qb'ing is more than arm strength and athleticism (obviously given it only got us to the playoffs 2wice out of 7 years, with equal meltdowns once we got there).

I'd still chose B. As majority of unbiased non-Bengals fans would.

[Nicomo Cosca]

Andy Dalton is now a backup QB for an 0-8 team. And it’s KILLING some you guys lol

[*Synric*]

(11-08-2019, 11:59 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Andy Dalton is now a backup QB for an 0-8 team. And it’s KILLING some you guys lol

Sounds like it's making you all warm and fuzzy...

[jj22]

(11-08-2019, 11:56 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Palmer’s teams were NOT more talented. Nobody and I mean NOBODY was talking about those teams having one of the deepest rosters like they did the 13-15 teams.

I disagree.

How many probowlers/allpro's did Palmers teams have?

Which era had more stars? Palmer/Chad or Dalton/Green?