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(11-13-2019, 03:36 PM)Au165 Wrote: I mean depending on if you are an optimist or a pessimist you could say he is a modern day Jimmy Johnson who was 0-8 and 1-15 overall his first year coaching. His average margin of defeat in his first 8 losses were 17 points and the average over all losses was 13.9. I get that it's in vogue here to be all "sky is falling" but this is kind of just cherry picking stats to drive a narrative.
I didn't realize Jimmy Johnson coached a franchise that hasn't won a playoff game in 28+ years?
The Cowboys were also rebuilding. We're in win now mode.
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(11-13-2019, 03:38 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I didn't realize Jimmy Johnson coached a franchise that hasn't won a playoff game in 28+ years?
The Cowboys were also rebuilding. We're in win now mode.
Dave Shula has no more impact on this organization today as Jimmy Johnson does. It's fun to link things back to an organizations history but it doesn't really matter. Are we assigning these losses to Mike Brown or Zac Taylor, last I checked it was Taylor.
...we aren't in win now mode, we missed that window people need to accept that. The hardest part of a rebuild is admitting you are in a rebuild.
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(11-13-2019, 03:47 PM)Au165 Wrote: Dave Shula has no more impact on this organization today as Jimmy Johnson does. It's fun to link things back to an organizations history but it doesn't really matter. Are we assigning these losses to Mike Brown or Zac Taylor, last I checked it was Taylor.
...we aren't in win now mode, we missed that window people need to accept that. The hardest part of a rebuild is admitting you are in a rebuild.
Pretty sure everyone on this board know we're not in "win now" mode. Perhaps you can convince the jackholes that run and own this team of the reality of it.
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(11-13-2019, 03:30 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: You give Gruden credit for losing to two 5-4 teams (Dallas and Philly)and one 4-5 team (Chicago). Does ZT get the same consideration when Sea hawk(7-2)s,Ravens (2)(7-2) , Pitt(5-4), LA(5-4) niners(8-1), and Bills(6-3) had better or equal to the record of the losses the Skins had.
I never said Gruden was ideal... We ain't getting an ideal guy. He's realistic because there's familiarity. But yes; Gruden gets more benefit of the doubt with me... Cause he's won a game as a head coach, knows how to call a game, and us probably smart enough to know he should have an OC do that.
Hell, I'd have hired Gruden as OC when he was fired, and told Boy Blunder to pass the playbook...
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(11-13-2019, 03:53 PM)R3stangs Wrote: Pretty sure everyone on this board know we're not in "win now" mode. Perhaps you can convince the jackholes that run and own this team of the reality of it.
I mean the previous poster I replied to just said we are in "win now mode".
That said, you are correct we are actually late to a rebuild. We have had 4 losing seasons now and instead of cycling in more talent two years ago to try and bounce back we let it sink over the next two years making a reload situation into a full blown rebuild. Being late to acknowledge the rebuild is often what pushes teams into longer term rebuilds.
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(11-13-2019, 03:57 PM)Au165 Wrote: I mean the previous poster I replied to just said we are in "win now mode".
That said, you are correct we are actually late to a rebuild. We have had 4 losing seasons now and instead of cycling in more talent two years ago to try and bounce back we let it sink over the next two years making a reload situation into a full blown rebuild. Being late to acknowledge the rebuild is often what pushes teams into longer term rebuilds.
We traded no players at the deadline...not even Dalton or Eifert...with Zac saying we want to win as many games as possible.
Starting the year, we traded no players for draft picks.
This was and is a team in win now mode.
They SHOULD be in rebuilding mode...but I've seen no evidence they are. Look at guys like Sample and Wren who aren't getting many snaps. Rebuilding teams play the younger guys. Not happening here.
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(11-13-2019, 03:47 PM)Au165 Wrote: Dave Shula has no more impact on this organization today as Jimmy Johnson does. It's fun to link things back to an organizations history but it doesn't really matter. Are we assigning these losses to Mike Brown or Zac Taylor, last I checked it was Taylor.
...we aren't in win now mode, we missed that window people need to accept that. The hardest part of a rebuild is admitting you are in a rebuild.
we know we are rebuilding has anyone told the front office?
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(11-13-2019, 04:09 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: we know we are rebuilding has anyone told the front office?
Precisely.
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(11-13-2019, 04:09 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: we know we are rebuilding has anyone told the front office?
The minute they Benched Andy was a clear sign to the fans that the front office knows they are in a rebuild.
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(11-13-2019, 03:55 PM)jason Wrote: I never said Gruden was ideal... We ain't getting an ideal guy. He's realistic because there's familiarity. But yes; Gruden gets more benefit of the doubt with me... Cause he's won a game as a head coach, knows how to call a game, and us probably smart enough to know he should have an OC do that.
Hell, I'd have hired Gruden as OC when he was fired, and told Boy Blunder to pass the playbook...
Gruden's not Ideal???? He was 15 games under five hundred with an owner who broke the bank in free agency and somehow he is going to turn everything around here with FAs like Hart and Brown. Hell I would rather have Hue.
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(11-13-2019, 04:16 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Gruden's not Ideal???? He was 15 games under five hundred with an owner who broke the bank in free agency and somehow he is going to turn everything around here with FAs like Hart and Brown. Hell I would rather have Hue.
I'd rather have hue Jackson than Zac Taylor too.
Breaking the bank doesn't win games. Daniel Snyder is different than Mike Brown, but he's not a great owner either.
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(11-13-2019, 04:08 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We traded no players at the deadline...not even Dalton or Eifert...with Zac saying we want to win as many games as possible.
Starting the year, we traded no players for draft picks.
This was and is a team in win now mode.
They SHOULD be in rebuilding mode...but I've seen no evidence they are. Look at guys like Sample and Wren who aren't getting many snaps. Rebuilding teams play the younger guys. Not happening here.
Contrary to popular belief selling at the deadline is the best time for BUYING teams to get good deals because there are so much fewer buyers than the off season. The only one who we lose out on is Eiffert and I'm not sure that 6th round pick was make or break for the franchise. I believe Dalton, Glenn, and potentially Dunlap and Kirkpatrick all could be traded this off season. Green will be an interesting litmus test to where they think they are at. I actually think they keep him if the plan is QB but they trade him if it is any other position at #1 overall.
As I said, admitting you are in a rebuild is the tough. The team can want to be in win now mode, but they never were and their actions proved that. They rolled with the same LB group as the previous season that led to one of the worst defenses in history. While there were O line upgrades they were superficial at best. Our previous three years coming into this season showed we weren't winning anything without major changes and those were not made. The mistake was that they equated a veteran roster with a roster ready to win now and that is a deadly mistake a lot of teams make.
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I believe Zac deserves one more year. That being said if he were to go I believe that a good replacement would be Rex Ryan. If anyone could stand up to MB and inspire the players it would be REX. Because of his outspoken ways MB probably never even consider Ryan even if he thought he would turn the team around.
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(11-13-2019, 12:07 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Mike McCarthy would be nice. An established coach that could bring in established processes.
Then, bring in an up-and-coming OC and an established DC.
Nobody worth half their weight wants to work for a family like the Browns...No indoor facility, no top FA's, no GM, lack of scouts, lack of modern-day, intuitive thinking and imagination..
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(11-13-2019, 04:22 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: I believe Zac deserves one more year. That being said if he were to go I believe that a good replacement would be Rex Ryan. If anyone could stand up to MB and inspire the players it would be REX. Because of his outspoken ways MB probably never even consider Ryan even if he thought he would turn the team around.
I'd love him to replace Lou... That's for damn sure.
Players seem to love him, but I think he's a better coordinator than HC. Probably take him over the current guy for sure...
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Firing a coach after 1 year lol, i said it once he was hired. I'm giving him 3 years, but I will not lie.. im sharpening my executioners axe.
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Those making the point of maybe Taylor is more like Coach X instead of Shula, sure he could be.
But do you want to wait potentially years to find out? If so, how long?
I think there's a shelf life of no more than 3 years.
Zac Taylor 2019-2020: 6 total wins
Zac Taylor 2021-2022: Double-digit wins each season, plus 5 postseason wins
Zac Taylor 2023: 9 wins despite losing Burrow half the season
Zac Taylor 2024: Started 1-4. If he can turn this into a playoff appearance, it will be impressive.
Sorry for Party Rocking!
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There seems to be a narrative that we're just losing close games.
In 1993, we lost by an average of 12.9 ppg. In 2019...we're losing by 12.2 ppg.
So VERY similar margin of losses.
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(11-13-2019, 04:33 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Those making the point of maybe Taylor is more like Coach X instead of Shula, sure he could be.
But do you want to wait potentially years to find out? If so, how long?
I think there's a shelf life of no more than 3 years.
I think the things I see are:
1 ) This roster shouldn't have 0 wins.
2 ) Taylor was hired for his offensive mind...and he's a TERRIBLE playcaller.
So what elite coaching skills does he have?
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