Why didnt the Bengals draft Lamar Jackson ?

[*bfine32*]

Because Andy was just a couple years removed from his 2015 MVP season.

[impactplaya]

(11-14-2019, 11:28 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: You probably do 64 NCAA March Madness brackets and also pick the winner every year too! 

It's fine to laugh at me . I can take it.but you really need to be laughing at the Bengals front office for passing on 2 of the 
Best QBs in the AFC.....and in reality Top 7 of the NFL.
The Ravens drafted Lamar and are set for a decade 
Meanwhile the Bengals still are searching for a franchise QB 
That can win a playoff game 

[impactplaya]

(11-15-2019, 12:04 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Because Andy was just a couple years removed from his 2015 MVP season.

This what smart franchises do. 
The Ravens had Flacco who wasn't that far removed from a successful run as a starting QB. 
They replace him in a seamless transition. Mid season no doubt 
The Ravens didn't need a bride QB. 
Smart front offices don't create rebuilds. 
Intelligent front offices don't create rosters that lose 16 of 17 
Games.
The Ravens do things so opposite of the Bengals 
The numbers dont lie 

[THE PISTONS]

(11-15-2019, 12:32 AM)impactplaya Wrote: It's fine to laugh at me . I can take it.but you really need to be laughing at the Bengals front office for passing on 2 of the 
Best QBs in the AFC.....and in reality Top 7 of the NFL.
The Ravens drafted Lamar and are set for a decade 
Meanwhile the Bengals still are searching for a franchise QB 
That can win a playoff game 

Believe me...I know they are inept.

Don't forget they passed on Mahommes and Watson for Ross...

4 spots after we took Ced in 2015 was Shaq Thompson who we could use at LB. 12 picks after was Landon Collins.

[impactplaya]

(11-15-2019, 12:40 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Believe me...I know they are inept.

Don't forget they passed on Mahommes and Watson for Ross...

4 spots after we took Ced in 2015 was Shaq Thompson who we could use at LB. 12 picks after was Landon Collins.

I think the Tobin has to go.
I think the scouting needs expanded 
I find it very concerning that I havent heard one player 
Say "I want to be here for the turnaround "
Maybe they have. 
I've heard ZT say it .
As long as Tobin is the GM.
I have little faith this team can turn it around 

[OswaldsLegacy]

(11-14-2019, 07:22 PM)J24 Wrote: Because he isn't that good and Quarterbacks who are built by running the ball don't last in the league. Take out his games against Us and the Dolphins and you get an average QB.

Ding... Ding... Ding... Ding.... Winner, Winner... Chicken Dinner.

Marvin himself has even said that scrambling QBs don't last and that all it takes is that one solid hit on the guy.

Pocket passers are something else entirely.  While the pocket passer's ability changes and some are better than others, the belief is that pocket passers are interchangeable to a degree and you can put any pocket passer in and win games.  When Brady went down, they put in Matt Cassell, the Patriots didn't miss a beat.  When Dalton went out in 2015, McCarron came a fumble from Hill away from winning a playoff game.

Wentz is a bit of a pocket passer / scrambling QB (also known as a dual threat), so it wasn't too much of a transition to go from Wentz to Foles and that worked out well for the Eagles.

Sometimes the change over can improve the team, as is the case with the Panthers.  Cam has been losing effectiveness as the years keep rolling.  The RBs have played better and the WRs as well.  Cam ad libbed a lot and that made players unsure of what to do, with Allen they just do what Norv Turner calls up and execute, no second guessing on what Cam will do first, then executing based off his actions.  When they tried to just execute with Cam, Cam wasn't as effective.

Most of the time your offense suffers... horribly when the 1 person you built it around goes down.  The window for the Ravens with Jackson is very small.  If he is injured then that closes the window even faster.  Even pocket passers are at risk of getting injured, scrambling QBs increase that risk greatly every play.

Jackson also has the benefit of playing against the 2018 and 19 Bengals defense as well as the 2019 Miami Dolphins.  This skews his numbers a bit and is a bit of a fool's gold with him.  Against better coached teams, he doesn't look all that special.

[OswaldsLegacy]

(11-15-2019, 12:32 AM)impactplaya Wrote: It's fine to laugh at me . I can take it.but you really need to be laughing at the Bengals front office for passing on 2 of the 
Best QBs in the AFC.....and in reality Top 7 of the NFL.
The Ravens drafted Lamar and are set for a decade 
Meanwhile the Bengals still are searching for a franchise QB 
That can win a playoff game 

Let's see if he makes a decade first.

The Ravens may need a QB next year if something happens to Jackson before this season is out.

[Vas Deferens]

Because Andy’s hair looked so good.

[GreenCornBengal]

Because the plan was to draft Joe Burrow the entire time!

[fredtoast]

Does everyone realize that Jackson was taken with the last pick of the first round.

So if the Bengals are stupid for not draf5ting him then so are 30 other teams.

[fredtoast]

(11-15-2019, 12:40 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Believe me...I know they are inept.

Don't forget they passed on Mahommes and Watson for Ross...

4 spots after we took Ced in 2015 was Shaq Thompson who we could use at LB. 12 picks after was Landon Collins.

You realize that you are saying every team in the league is inept?

[THE PISTONS]

(11-15-2019, 10:51 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You realize that you are saying every team in the league is inept?

I have high standards for ept.

[shanebo]

First, as mentioned above, LJax was the 32nd pick of the first round, which means that every other team passed on him as well. Four teams even passed on him for other QBs (Mayfield, Darnold, Allen, and Rosen were all picked before him). Even the Ravens passed on him -- THREE TIMES -- before finally grabbing him at the bottom of the first (traded out of 1-16 and 1-22 and took Hurst at 1-25). So I think it's safe to say that no one, not even the Ravens, thought he was going to be this good.

Second, it's way too early to crown him the next Brady. He's only played in 25 games. No superbowls, no pro bowls, one playoff game (a loss -- he sucked, BTW). Prior to this season he was decidedly mediocre. His success this season -- which I'm all for because he's my fantasy QB and the Bengals are out of it anyway -- has largely been the product of a gimmicky offense that NFL defenses will most likely figure out next year. He still has many flaws; they're just minimized in this specific scheme.

If you were a "win-now" team, would you really take him over Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes, Wilson, or Brees? If you were building for the future, would you take him over Rodgers, Wilson, or Mahomes? What about Watson, Wentz, or Prescott? Maybe, maybe not. But there are many examples of a running QB having success for a season or two then crashing back to earth due to injuries, declining skill, or simply being too one-dimensional (see RGIII, Vince Young, Tim Tebow, Terrell Pryor, Mitch Trubisky last year, Baker Mayfield last year). Even those who enjoyed sustained success experienced a general decline in production as the years progressed (see Randall Cunningham, Mike Vick, Cam Newton). Desean Watson, who I think is better than Jackson, could easily fall into this latter category. Only those guys who learned how to do other things well were able to have more successful careers (Wilson, McNabb, maybe Mahomes).

Lamar could become a legend, or he could be injured and out of the league in two years. Price could (somehow) become a solid starter on our line for the next 10 years. It's just way too early to tell. I remember several threads going around in 2012-13 arguing that we were stupid for taking Dalton over Kaepernick. Seven years later, turns out they were only partially right -- there were better players available at 35, but it wasn't Kaep. How much would help would Justin Houston have been to our team? Or KJ Wright? Jurrell Casey? Jason Kelce? Rodney Hudson? Or Richard Freaking Sherman? Bottom line, there are a lot of other, legit reasons to criticize the Bengals, but this ain't it.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-15-2019, 12:19 PM)shanebo Wrote: First, as mentioned above, LJax was the 32nd pick of the first round, which means that every other team passed on him as well.  Four teams even passed on him for other QBs (Mayfield, Darnold, Allen, and Rosen were all picked before him).  Even the Ravens passed on him -- THREE TIMES -- before finally grabbing him at the bottom of the first (traded out of 1-16 and 1-22 and took Hurst at 1-25).  So I think it's safe to say that no one, not even the Ravens, thought he was going to be this good.

Second, it's way too early to crown him the next Brady.  He's only played in 25 games.  No superbowls, no pro bowls, one playoff game (a loss -- he sucked, BTW).  Prior to this season he was decidedly mediocre.  His success this season -- which I'm all for because he's my fantasy QB and the Bengals are out of it anyway -- has largely been the product of a gimmicky offense that NFL defenses will most likely figure out next year.  He still has many flaws; they're just minimized in this specific scheme.  

If you were a "win-now" team, would you really take him over Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes, Wilson, or Brees?  If you were building for the future, would you take him over Rodgers, Wilson, or Mahomes?  What about Watson, Wentz, or Prescott?  Maybe, maybe not.  But there are many examples of a running QB having success for a season or two then crashing back to earth due to injuries, declining skill, or simply being too one-dimensional (see RGIII, Vince Young, Tim Tebow, Terrell Pryor, Mitch Trubisky last year, Baker Mayfield last year).  Even those who enjoyed sustained success experienced a general decline in production as the years progressed (see Randall Cunningham, Mike Vick, Cam Newton).  Desean Watson, who I think is better than Jackson, could easily fall into this latter category.  Only those guys who learned how to do other things well were able to have more successful careers (Wilson, McNabb, maybe Mahomes).  

Lamar could become a legend, or he could be injured and out of the league in two years.  Price could (somehow) become a solid starter on our line for the next 10 years.  It's just way too early to tell.  I remember several threads going around in 2012-13 arguing that we were stupid for taking Dalton over Kaepernick.  Seven years later, turns out they were only partially right -- there were better players available at 35, but it wasn't Kaep.  How much would help would Justin Houston have been to our team?  Or KJ Wright?  Jurrell Casey?  Jason Kelce?  Rodney Hudson?  Or Richard Freaking Sherman?  Bottom line, there are a lot of other, legit reasons to criticize the Bengals, but this ain't it.

Yeah...I doubt that Price is ever as good as Jackson...

Price is actually put on the ground by defenders more in games than Jackson. 

[impactplaya]

For those of you bringing up the "31 teams passed on him" argument . It doesnt hold water.
Not every NFL team Needs a QB in the upperhalf
Of the draft.
I don't care about 31 teams other needs.
The point is the Bengals front office didn't have the
Foresight to draft LJ.
LJ is small sample size on how poorly run the Bengals
Scouting and elevation process is.

[fredtoast]

(11-15-2019, 04:32 PM)impactplaya Wrote: The point is the Bengals front office didn't have the
Foresight to draft LJ. 

And neither did you or anyone else here as far as I can tell.

[Kingslayer]

They wouldn't know how to build around him anyway.

[George Cantstandya]

(11-15-2019, 04:32 PM)impactplaya Wrote: For those of you bringing up the "31 teams passed on him" argument . It doesnt hold water.
Not every NFL team Needs a QB in the upperhalf
Of the draft.
I don't care about 31 teams other needs.
The point is the Bengals front office didn't have the
Foresight to draft LJ.
LJ is small sample size on how poorly run the Bengals
Scouting and elevation process is.

Several teams during the 2018 draft were in need of a QB and they all passed on him.  As a reminder The Browns, Jets, Bills and Cardinals all drafted a QB in the first round and ahead of him. All of those picks are playing well below the same level Jackson is.  Heck the Cardinals passed on him with the 10th pick, drafted Rosen, and ended drafting another QB with the first overall pick in 2019.   It's easy to look back after the fact and ask, "Why didn't all those teams draft him?"  Apparently they didn't have the foresight to do so either. 

I get it, he's is playing lights out right now and is in consideration for MVP.  But the Bengals were not the only ones that didn't predict how well he would play. Heck when he stepped in for Flacco last year people were still criticizing him and his 58.2 completion percent by the end of the season.  Why were you not asking the same thing at the end of the 2018 season after he had started 7 games or even the beginning of this season instead of waiting more than half a season in?   So the argument that the Bengals were lacking foresight for not drafting him is a bit off.  The draft is full of could of should of would of and the Bengals are not alone in that. 

I won't argue the Bengals have been bad at drafting over the last several years though.  But given glaring needs on the o-line in 2018 (and continuing) I can't argue with them trying to address that. I think that was the consensus not only among fans but the NFL media "experts" as a whole. Even though it appears Price may have been yet another bad pick at this point.

Finally, I'll throw you a bone. It seems Mike Mayock was on with his 2018 mock draft as he had the Ravens picking Jackson with the 16th pick but after Darnold, Mayfield, Allen and Rosen dated April 25 2018:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000928583/article/mike-mayocks-2018-nfl-mock-draft-bills-trade-up-for-josh-allen

As we know now the Ravens traded down then back up to snag him with the 32nd pick. I was critical of that myself but it seems they made out fairly well at this point.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(11-15-2019, 04:48 PM)Kingslayer Wrote: They wouldn't know how to build around him anyway.

This. 

This team has never had a plan other then a small groups of scouts circle jerking over some workout warriors they think will be good football players. Mikey wets his depends every time he watches tape of college QB's - on the lookout for the next 'bell cow'. 

The Inbreds are now even having trouble cobbling a roster together let alone planning for some master re-build. 

I want to see more pictures of the Tree Sloth or Toy Blackbird slouched in their seats at games as they are forced to watch their own ineptness filling the playing field. Dufus Tobin and Pumpkin are staying well out of sight these days, wonder why?

[THE PISTONS]

I think the simple reason why they didn't draft him was because they didn't feel like they needed a QB.