Burrow, Tua, or Herbert?

[coachmcneil71]

(11-19-2019, 02:44 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: You're falling into the same "system" argument that's flawed. 

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying it's not a thing. What i'm saying is...forget about the system. Forget about past QBs. People need to get away from this thinking and start watching what a QB does, not where he is. 

Watch his performance late in games. 
Watch his completion percentage late in games. 
Watch his decision making late in games. 
Watch his performance and comp% when under pressure (and even moreso, under pressure...late in games).
Watch how he plays against tougher opponents. 
Watch where he's throwing the ball; open receivers or tight coverage. 
Watch his comp% on the move.
Watch how he moves to avoid pressure and if he panics and runs right out of the pocket at the first sign of pressure. 

There are so many things to watch with a QB that it's lazy and old school to just look at where they play and under what system. 

Joe's playing great! I'm not knocking on him,but let's not forget the talent he's surrounded with. He was the first to mention as such. Ts, I don't find Joe any more appealing than Jalen Hurts, whose record speaks for itself.

If this franchise passes on Young, they will regret it for ten years!!! He's the next coming of Charles Haley imho. This draft class is deep at QB. Good QBs! 
I like Joe, but he can't change the leagues worst pass rush/defense and offense all alone. Young at #1, Hurts at #2, LBs,O-Line, and DBs just might?

[*bfine32*]

(11-19-2019, 12:03 PM)sandwedge Wrote: None of the 3. Chase Young will go a lot further helping this team next season than a QB. I like Fields in 2021 though!

What year did you graduate OSU?

[Whatever]

(11-19-2019, 07:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What year did you graduate OSU?

Is that a trick question?  From my experience, the biggest OSU homers never actually went to OSU. 

[ah5]

Chase #1 Tua #33. I think his injury is enough to push him out of round 1. There is a possibility he never plays football again but willing to sink #33 to get him and sit him for a year to see how he recovers.

Sent from my BND-L34 using Tapatalk

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-19-2019, 07:03 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Joe's playing great! I'm not knocking on him,but let's not forget the talent he's surrounded with. He was the first to mention as such. Ts, I don't find Joe any more appealing than Jalen Hurts, whose record speaks for itself.

If this franchise passes on Young, they will regret it for ten years!!! He's the next coming of Charles Haley imho. This draft class is deep at QB. Good QBs! 
I like Joe, but he can't change the leagues worst pass rush/defense and offense all alone. Young at #1, Hurts at #2, LBs,O-Line, and DBs just might?

There are a couple different ways i can get on board with. I'd like Burrow first if they're able to get Kindley in the 2nd and sign another lineman in FA (fat chance, i know). 

I'd also take Young first and Hurts in the 2nd. 

There are just so many things they're (or they could be) positioned to do...i just have this feeling that they're going to **** it up, like they usually do. All this talk among fans about the possibilities is great, but knowing the Bengals...well, you know the rest. 

[coachmcneil71]

(11-19-2019, 09:10 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: There are a couple different ways i can get on board with. I'd like Burrow first if they're able to get Kindley in the 2nd and sign another lineman in FA (fat chance, i know). 

I'd also take Young first and Hurts in the 2nd. 

There are just so many things they're (or they could be) positioned to do...i just have this feeling that they're going to **** it up, like they usually do. All this talk among fans about the possibilities is great, but knowing the Bengals...well, you know the rest. 

I wouldn't be upset if the second scenario plays out that way. Joe has earned some major respect. I would be advocating a QB in the first if this QB class wasn't so deep with talent.

Bottom line is exactly what you mentioned in your last paragraph.... I'm scared to death that they're going to screw the pooch.....per the norm.

[WhodeyRay]

I think number 1 is BPA no matter what or trade it. This can't and I repeat can't be a risk pick. They are all risks but we need the lowest risk. Then the other rounds look for value. A 1st that slipped to the 2nd ect.... This team is filled with holes and the few spots that aren't are at the end of their playing days. We are not a couple players away so if you can get a top lineman or d lineman, safety, receiver, qb or whatever take him. You never know how next years draft or the draft after will pan out and then you may need to reach for a need when you could have had the better player the year before.

[coachmcneil71]

(11-19-2019, 07:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What year did you graduate OSU?

The Buckeye hate is as ridiculous as it is hilarious!!    The Ohio State University currently has 44 NFL players on rosters. They trail only Bama who has a whooping 56. 

So yeah, that school really sucks at producing NFL talent. 

[*Synric*]

(11-19-2019, 07:03 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Joe's playing great! I'm not knocking on him,but let's not forget the talent he's surrounded with. He was the first to mention as such. Ts, I don't find Joe any more appealing than Jalen Hurts, whose record speaks for itself.

If this franchise passes on Young, they will regret it for ten years!!! He's the next coming of Charles Haley imho. This draft class is deep at QB. Good QBs! 
I like Joe, but he can't change the leagues worst pass rush/defense and offense all alone. Young at #1, Hurts at #2, LBs,O-Line, and DBs just might?

There is no such thing as a deep QB draft class.

[coachmcneil71]

(11-19-2019, 10:12 PM)Synric Wrote: There is no such thing as a deep QB draft class.

Go do some research. This QB draft is about as deep as I can remember. I expect a whopping 4 to get drafted in the first round. I'm taking Tua out of the equation since he is eligible to return to Bama. 

That leaves guys like Eason,Hurts,Mond,Montez,Stanely, Newman, Patterson ect....
There are some good ones going to be available after the first.

[*Synric*]

(11-19-2019, 11:03 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Go do some research. This QB draft is about as deep as I can remember. I expect a whopping 4 to get drafted in the first round. I'm taking Tua out of the equation since he is eligible to return to Bama. 

That leaves guys like Eason,Hurts,Mond,Montez,Stanely, Newman, Patterson ect....
There are some good ones going to be available after the first.

Stop. Drafting a QB isnt like drafting any other position. You dont just say hey I'll take this guy in the 2nd round or 3rd round.

QB is the toughest position to draft. If they are anywhere worth it they are 1st round picks and even then the bust rate is extremely high.

You are alot more likely to find a good edge rusher at the top of the second than a franchise QB. I get it you want Chase Young but do not trivialize how easy it is to find a Franchise QB by top 10 lists you find on walterfootball.

[coachmcneil71]

(11-19-2019, 11:10 PM)Synric Wrote: Stop. Drafting a QB isnt like drafting any other position. You dont just say hey I'll take this guy in the 2nd round or 3rd round.

QB is the toughest position to draft. If they are anywhere worth it they are 1st round picks and even then the bust rate is extremely high.

You are alot more likely to find a good edge rusher at the top of the second than a franchise QB.

You stop! Then tell that hs to Tom Brady, Ken Stabler, Brett Favre, Joe Montana, Kurt Warner ect....I will stop there and I was just getting started.
Odds of a successful QB in the first round is 55%.

[*Synric*]

(11-19-2019, 11:19 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: You stop! Then tell that hs to Tom Brady, Ken Stabler, Brett Favre, Joe Montana, Kurt Warner ect....I will stop there and I was just getting started.


Plz

There have been bust rate percentages on QBs listed on this forum everywhere this season you should probably look it up yourself and even first round QBs the percentage is extremely high.

Like I said I get it you want Chase Young but drafting a QB is different that any other position. You cant just say he let's wait until the second round or third round.

[coachmcneil71]

(11-19-2019, 11:24 PM)Synric Wrote: There have been bust rate percentages on QBs listed on this forum everywhere this season you should probably look it up yourself and even first round QBs the percentage is extremely high.

Like I said I get it you want Chase Young but drafting a QB is different that any other position. You cant just say he let's wait until the second round or third round.

I understand, and if it were a different year, I would agree. You caught me before I could edit my post. I am aware of the percentages.
 
I feel you, trust me. I like Tua, Joe, and Herbert. Ts, I also like Hurts, Eason, Mond,Stanely, and Montez. Plus there is always a Carson Wentz that shows up at the combine.

If the Bengals second round pick was later in the round, I might be concerned. 

I'll be rooting for Young, then Hurts. It has nothing to do with being a Bucks fan. It has to do with the possibility of getting the best pass rusher in the draft at #1 ( getting a DE, one of the leagues highest paid positions, under a rookie contract I would like to add), then getting a QB with first round talent at #2.

I'm not opposed to grabbing Burrow, but I like the other scenario better.

[Au165]

(11-19-2019, 11:10 PM)Synric Wrote: Stop. Drafting a QB isnt like drafting any other position. You dont just say hey I'll take this guy in the 2nd round or 3rd round.

QB is the toughest position to draft. If they are anywhere worth it they are 1st round picks and even then the bust rate is extremely high.

You are alot more likely to find a good edge rusher at the top of the second than a franchise QB. I get it you want Chase Young but do not trivialize how easy it is to find a Franchise QB by top 10 lists you find on walterfootball.

Remember how "deep" that 2011 draft was? How about 2012? History actually shows us that when more than 4 QB's go in the 1st round the majority are usually a bust. Deep classes are fools gold where people just talk themselves into QB's in the 1st because they had no shot at the clear cut 1/2 guy.

[*psychdoctor*]

I am on the fence about Herbert. I keep going back and forth with him. He has an elite arm, probably the strongest arm in the draft save Eason. However, he did not improve on his accuracy down field. Meaning, Herbert theoretically has the strongest arm but sometimes his throws are high and off the mark.

If the Bengals were able to trade back with the Dolphins and get 2 first rounders and another 3rd, draft Herbert and maybe Kindley and Austin Jackson (an absolute stud at OT no one is talking about), then fine.

For me it comes down to Burrow or Young.

For those that think Mike Brown et. al can draft a later QB that has franchise ability think again. The only two QB under Mike Brown leadership that made a difference is Carson Palmer, the #1 overall pick and Dalton (2nd round). Dalton was good but not great at anything other than his release was elite. Palmer was elite but got injured.

Bengals will draft Burrow if he is there.

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-19-2019, 11:41 AM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: All three qbs mentioned are talented guys with upside. Ts, they all also have certain drawbacks. I really don't have the time or patience to break this all down for folks, so I will make it very short. Tua- injury. Herbert- below average competition.

Burrow- I like Joe, he's an Ohio guy, but I dont want him or any of the QBs mentioned at #1!!! Now here I will try to explain to you thick heads why he may not be the "savior" that most of you seem to think he is. First and foremost is the system that he's playing in. The same system that Urbs Florida ran and dominated the SEC with during his time. Boy, that Tebow sure looked good....in that system! Auburn has remained relevant n the SEC by running the same type of system and they have had some luck. Auburn's man problem is their knack for not being able to find a QB that can get them there. Joe's lack of arm stregnth is going to be a problem at the next level. He's no Pat Mahomes!! Next, is our putrid offensive line. They will get him killed here.

Just to clarify; I like all three of the guys mentioned, but not at #1.

There are several very good pro style QBs n this draft besides the three that everyone keeps mentioning.

The Bengals have a chance to get the next Charles Haley and a starting QB in the first and second Rd of this draft. This is a no brainer!! If they do screw this up, as usual, I WILL be moving on after 40 plus years of everything Bengal.

I don't want a QB at #1, either, but I look at the current roster and think they will be getting a QB next year no matter what and will be relying on him to start.  I think Chase Young would make the biggest impact on this team, but I see it almost as a foregone conclusion that they will be getting a QB early.

The only way I see you getting Young and a QB is to slide a pick or two (I really root for Miami to win a couple more games) and get a bounty of picks for #1 overall and get Young and then trying to get a QB in Rd 1 or trading back in Rd 1 to get one like Hurts (although I am not as big on him).  

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-19-2019, 06:27 PM)Interceptor Wrote: Draft an entire O-Line this year, make them fight for the starting spot, take out lumps and then see if we can get at Trevor Lawrence in the next draft. Even if not, it would bring Mixon's game up.

If there is another Quentin Nelson in this draft, I would absolutely slide and take him and a bounty of picks, but I think Chase Young is an unbelievable talent.  He would help this team more than any position.  Sure, the offense is struggling, but with no AJ, no Ross, and your third string LT, you can understand some of that.  The defense is possibly the worst in NFL history.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-19-2019, 07:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What year did you graduate OSU?

Honestly, I would love if this would happen.  Give Finley/Dolegala a shot for an entire year while you figure out the offensive line and weapons (I hope they get something for AJ also at this point, but the Browns seem back in their old, stubborn mode of holding on to players that don't want to be here).

Fields has the arm strength and mobility I would love to see here.  He could be the Michigan QB and I would want him.  He is a VERY strong and elusive runner with a cannon for an arm.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-19-2019, 09:10 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: There are a couple different ways i can get on board with. I'd like Burrow first if they're able to get Kindley in the 2nd and sign another lineman in FA (fat chance, i know). 

I'd also take Young first and Hurts in the 2nd. 

There are just so many things they're (or they could be) positioned to do...i just have this feeling that they're going to **** it up, like they usually do. All this talk among fans about the possibilities is great, but knowing the Bengals...well, you know the rest. 

They are going to have to make some major changes in FA if they want to sell a single ticket next year.  I see 4-5 major needs that should be addressed by FA.