Chase Young or Joe Burrow ?

[JBSmooth]

(11-25-2019, 01:36 PM)Okeana Wrote: Look u the stats on Joe Burrow vs Trevor Lawrence.  here i will do it for you.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/3915511/joe-burrow

https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/4360310/trevor-lawrence


to put this in perspect look at Johnny Manziel's stats coming out of college which at the time was the best in college football

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/16736/johnny-manziel


Joe burrow had a below-average 2018 due to scheme fit and the fact that the 2018 lsu team was a defense-first team with very little to no true weapons on offense and even then he had nearly 60% accuracy the same John Elway had in his Junior year of college.  Burrows has better accuracy than brees, manning, and Elway coming out of college, by a large margin and this simply cannot be overlooked.

I am still on the burrow train, but - as an admitted OSU hater (Most annoying, insecure, petulant and loser fans in the nation) - Chase young would not be a bad pick. 

I am also just furious we did not trade AJ green to San Fran.  We could have asked for Solomon Thomas, Picks, etc for AJ.  

They ended up trading for Em Sanders - 3rd and 4th rounder.   And if we could get Young then Fromm or Tua at the top of the second - I'd be all in on that too. 

But, they will **** this up.  We are a joke

[*bengalfan74*]

The more I think about it....

1. MB has been looking for his Otto Graham since day one

2. This will carry a lot of weight with MB, the Ohio connection:

Burrow attended Athens High School in The Plains, Ohio, leading the school to three straight playoff appearances and the school's first seven playoff victories in school history.[3] During his career, he passed for 11,416 yards with 157 passing touchdowns and rushed for 2,067 yards with 27 rushing touchdowns.[4] He was awarded the Ohio Mr. Football Award and Ohio Gatorade Player of the Year Award as a senior.

Mike Brown will go Burrow if he gets the chance and the chance is getting very near a lock.

[J24]

I think all options should be open but I don't think you can go wrong with either option. Personally I trade the Pick to a team like Atlanta and get a shit ton of Picks in return (would try to get Deion Jones in the deal as well).

[fredtoast]

(11-25-2019, 01:40 PM)JBSmooth Wrote: I am also just furious we did not trade AJ green to San Fran.  

SF was not interested in Green.  They needed a guy who could play and help them win.

[JBSmooth]

I saw a mock of us taking

Burrow
Then OL with 2 and 3

Kid from Washington and kid from Tennessee - Trey Adams and Trey Smith, respectively

If you do that.

Franchise AJ green for a year - who really cares, they wont spend the money on extra help anyway, it has to go somewhere

Then buy a LB or two. We would win 4 games next year. Thats infinity improvement over zero.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-25-2019, 01:31 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I will give a couple of scenarios of how this could play out, both have me drafting Chase Young #1.

Scenario #1 we sign AJ long term (both scenarios), then we let Finley and Dalton battle it out in training camp with Jake and not draft a QB in 2020 at all (shocker to all).

#2 - We draft Chase Young with 1st pick, trade Dalton to a team like the Pats (I predict Brady retires) for a 2nd round pick. We then use the pick to jump back into round one and grab a QB like Hurts. We want the QB under our control for 5 years and that means 1st round pick as others don't have 5th year option.

I am not an OSU fan, the more I watch Young, the more I see a dominant DE with a fire, run stopper and beast rushing the passer (game changer). Also, Dunlap is getting up in age, may have 2 or less great years left so we would have his long term replacement as he helps groom Young.

I'd say Jordan Love or Jalen Hurts in the 2nd Round...IF they pass on Burrow.

BUT, I think we all know the Bengals will pick Burrow.

[*Nately120*]

(11-25-2019, 01:39 PM)Okeana Wrote: Fitzmagic imo and I would sign him even if you do draft Burrow because he inspires teams and he's an above-average backup.

I could see that, but it took ZT 8 games to start Finley so how long do you think he could possibly resist starting the #1 overall pick QB?

[THE PISTONS]

(11-25-2019, 01:36 PM)Okeana Wrote: Look u the stats on Joe Burrow vs Trevor Lawrence.  here i will do it for you.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/3915511/joe-burrow

https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/4360310/trevor-lawrence


to put this in perspect look at Johnny Manziel's stats coming out of college which at the time was the best in college football

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/16736/johnny-manziel


Joe burrow had a below-average 2018 due to scheme fit and the fact that the 2018 lsu team was a defense-first team with very little to no true weapons on offense and even then he had nearly 60% accuracy the same John Elway had in his Junior year of college.  Burrows has better accuracy than brees, manning, and Elway coming out of college, by a large margin and this simply cannot be overlooked.

Indeed...but here he'll be playing under probably the worst coaching staff of the past decade in the NFL. Have terrible playcalling. A terrible scheme. And under management who generally won't bring high profile external free agents in.

I'm all in on Burrow too...but IF he needs coaching/scheme to succeed...which any QB would...the deck is stacked against him here.

[fredtoast]

(11-25-2019, 01:36 PM)Okeana Wrote: to put this in perspect look at Johnny Manziel's stats coming out of college which at the time was the best in college football

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/16736/johnny-manziel

So what you are saying is that you wanted to draft Manziel because his stats proved he was the best in college football, correct?

And do you know who's SEC yardage mark Burrow is trying to break?  Tim Couch.  

You have to look beyond the numbers.  Hard to believe that the greatest QB in the history of college football couldn't even get on the filed at OSU.

[yellowxdiscipline]

Burrow... Hands down Burrow.

[Okeana]

(11-25-2019, 01:58 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I could see that, but it took ZT 8 games to start Finley so how long do you think he could possibly resist starting the #1 overall pick QB?

True, but if I were management I would hire an entire new coaching staffing.  Get Kris Richards, Jim Harbaugh, or maybe Eric Bieniemy.  I can forgive having a bad season, but you cannot keep your job when you draft that bad, pick those assistant coaches, and produce this season.  

[Okeana]

(11-25-2019, 02:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So what you are saying is that you wanted to draft Manziel because his stats proved he was the best in college football, correct?

And do you know who's SEC yardage mark Burrow is trying to break?  Tim Couch.  

You have to look beyond the numbers.  Hard to believe that the greatest QB in the history of college football couldn't even get on the filed at OSU.

nope what I'm saying is that there is a huge difference between a guy who puts out 58% completion in college and a guy that puts out 78%.  End of discussion nice try.

[Okeana]

(11-25-2019, 02:01 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Indeed...but here he'll be playing under probably the worst coaching staff of the past decade in the NFL. Have terrible playcalling. A terrible scheme. And under management who generally won't bring high profile external free agents in.

I'm all in on Burrow too...but IF he needs coaching/scheme to succeed...which any QB would...the deck is stacked against him here.

By scheme I mean he plays a more pro-style offense than a lot of college QB's.  That said I 100% agree that changes need to be made for him to reach high levels of success early, but that can be said of any player.  Even if you want to look at it from a straight logic standpoint.  You have two players both the best at the position in young and Burrows.  IF all things are equal the higher positional value should win.  I think Young is a GREAT prospect and could be a generational talent, but unfortunately, we need the most important player in football which is a QB and we have a chance at a guy who could also be a generational talent.  This debate can't even come down to state pride, because Burrow is from Ohio and by the way played for Ohio state.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-25-2019, 02:29 PM)Okeana Wrote: nope what I'm saying is that there is a huge difference between a guy who puts out 58% completion in college and a guy that puts out 78%.  End of discussion nice try.

You know this...but scouting QB's is more complex than just looking at college numbers. There's usually a good article or two on this around draft time each year.

The worry with Burrow is that we'd be drafting him off of a career year that he can never duplicate.

No one knows if he is or isn't.

[fredtoast]

(11-25-2019, 02:29 PM)Okeana Wrote: nope what I'm saying is that there is a huge difference between a guy who puts out 58% completion in college and a guy that puts out 78%.  End of discussion nice try.

So now you are saying that 58% completion percentage was "the best in college football" before Burrow?

[Catmandude123]

(11-25-2019, 09:04 AM)sonofstat Wrote: It's tough isn't it because the league just naturally puts so much more premium on QB.

In reality the question is : good DE .vs. middle pack QB?

....yeah you might get a HoF from either pick if you are lucky but history shows its more about the above question.

2019 - K Murray (1) , N Bosa (2)
2018 - Mayfield (1) , Chubb (5)
2017 - M Garrett (1) , Trubiskey (6)
2016 - Goff (1) , J Bosa (3)
2015 - Winston (1) , D Fowler (3)
2014 - Clowney (1) , Bortles (3)

Not exactly clear cut is it...i guess if it was Goff .vs. Bosa you take Goff?   

But i would argue that the first DE is pretty much guaranteed production (even the bust Fowler is producing now at Rams) but the wrong QB like Bortles or Trubiskey can really set you back

Cherry picking? Why didn't you mention the most touted D-lineman to ever come out, BIG DADDY

[JBSmooth]

Would you:

Tag AJ Green. Trade him, the #2 pick (33 overall) and next years First Round Pick for the Second overall pick in this draft?

Get Young and Burrow.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-25-2019, 03:06 PM)JBSmooth Wrote: Would you:

Tag AJ Green.  Trade him, the #2 pick (33 overall) and next years First Round Pick for the Second overall pick in this draft?

Get Young and Burrow.

That's a tough one.

So IF we go Burrow #1...in the 2nd Round, I was thinking of going Jefferson who was his WR at LSU. IF we're not going to address the offensive line in free agency...we could sure use a Tackle or Guard in the 2nd. Or a good LB.

I doubt the Redskins are interested in a 32 year old AJ Green who's missed his last 25 games at $17 million a year, but your premise of trading assets for Young is interesting.

There are just so many needs on this team. But, the reason I do like trading them for Young is...we whiff a lot and Young seems like a sure thing.

[JBSmooth]

(11-25-2019, 03:26 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: That's a tough one.

So IF we go Burrow #1...in the 2nd Round, I was thinking of going Jefferson who was his WR at LSU. IF we're not going to address the offensive line in free agency...we could sure use a Tackle or Guard in the 2nd. Or a good LB.

I doubt the Redskins are interested in a 32 year old AJ Green who's missed his last 25 games at $17 million a year, but your premise of trading assets for Young is interesting.

There are just so many needs on this team. But, the reason I do like trading them for Young is...we whiff a lot and Young seems like a sure thing.

Yeah, and it's hard to trust a team who has drafted:

Fisher, Obguehui, Sample, Ross and Price in the last 5 years. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-25-2019, 08:50 AM)sonofstat Wrote: Ugh...don't you just get the horrible feeling that what ever way the Front office go we will look back and wished we zigged instead of zagged.

If we take Burrows then Young delivers on his once in a generation pass rusher for another team.

If we take Young then Burrows becomes the true franchise passer somewhere else  

That's exactly how it works for the Bengals, since the beginning of time. 

90% of the time, it doesn't work every time. (the ones the Bengals pick, that is).