Chase Young or Joe Burrow ?

[mikey6866]

(11-25-2019, 07:48 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It’s always a good idea to check your grammar in a post questioning someone else’s intelligence... lol

Also, bringing up Andrew Luck, who couldn’t stay healthy, and is already out of the league before 30, probably isn’t the best comparison when trying to say Tua is worth the risk.

Andrew luck was a top qb in his career.  Coming out of college it was clear he would succeed in the nfl.  He did that.  That is the only comparison I was making between luck and tua.  He walked away from the game due to injuries.  If tua ends up playing at lucks level in the nfl we will be fortunate to have that type of qb for however long he plays.  

[SadFaceBengal15]

(11-25-2019, 07:48 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It’s always a good idea to check your grammar in a post questioning someone else’s intelligence... lol

Also, bringing up Andrew Luck, who couldn’t stay healthy, and is already out of the league before 30, probably isn’t the best comparison when trying to say Tua is worth the risk.

Haha ur that guy

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-25-2019, 10:16 PM)mikey6866 Wrote: Andrew luck was a top qb in his career.  Coming out of college it was clear he would succeed in the nfl.  He did that.  That is the only comparison I was making between luck and tua.  He walked away from the game due to injuries.  If tua ends up playing at lucks level in the nfl we will be fortunate to have that type of qb for however long he plays.  

I want nothing to do with a QB that has hip issues. At least not in the 1st round, and no way in hell 1OA.

[J24]

(11-25-2019, 05:00 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Everyone saying Chase is a sure thing must not remember Vernon Gholston. 14 sacks as a senior, set combine records, then... bust.

If you have a glaring need at QB and a great QB prospect is there, you take the QB. Even if Chase is the real deal, a DE isn't turning this franchise around. If I owned the Bengals, I'm...

1. Cutting Cordy Glenn and Andy Dalton, which will clear around $27 million.
2. Looking to trade Dre Kirkpatrick
3. Looking at right guards/tackles and LB's in free agency
4. Drafting Joe Burrow
5. Spend the rest of the draft looking for pass rushers and help for Burrow

I think this team can easily set itself up well AND get the franchise QB. We don't need 500 picks. We just need a willing Mike Brown.

1. Jamarcus Russell was an LSU QB and drafted first overall. Should we not draft Burrow because he is an LSU QB too?
2.)3 out of 4 of the Bengals best QBs have been drafted after the first RD. 
3.) The Raiders drafted Mack 1st in 2014 and Derek Carr in the 2nd. It worked out for them. Why can't the Bengals do that.
4.) You're a 1000% right that Mike needs to step up as a owner.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-25-2019, 11:29 PM)J24 Wrote: 1. Jamarcus Russell was an LSU QB and drafted first overall. Should we not draft Burrow because he is an LSU QB too?
2.)3 out of 4 of the Bengals best QBs have been drafted after the first RD. 
3.) The Raiders drafted Mack 1st in 2014 and Derek Carr in the 2nd. It worked out for them. Why can't the Bengals do that.
4.) You're a 1000% right that Mike needs to step up as a owner.

1. I didn't say Burrow was a sure thing. I'm responding to the logic that we should take Chase over Burrow because Chase is a "sure thing".

2.  Most of our best players were taken after the first round, including DE's. Probably because 6 rounds > 1 round.

3. Not sure how well that really worked for them. Mack is gone and there are still people questioning Carr. Do you ever see Carr winning a SB? And boy was that an ugly QB class in hindsight. No wonder the Raiders didn't take a QB high. Only 1 QB went in the first 21 picks (Bortles), then it was Manziel, then Bridgewater. Carr was the best in that class. I doubt the best QB in this class goes in the 2nd round. It just looks like a more talented bunch.
4. No doubt.

[J24]

(11-26-2019, 12:18 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 1. I didn't say Burrow was a sure thing. I'm responding to the logic that we should take Chase over Burrow because Chase is a "sure thing".

2.  Most of our best players were taken after the first round, including DE's. Probably because 6 rounds > 1 round.

3. Not sure how well that really worked for them. Mack is gone and there are still people questioning Carr. Do you ever see Carr winning a SB? And boy was that an ugly QB class in hindsight. No wonder the Raiders didn't take a QB high. Only 1 QB went in the first 21 picks (Bortles), then it was Manziel, then Bridgewater. Carr was the best in that class. I doubt the best QB in this class goes in the 2nd round. It just looks like a more talented bunch.
4. No doubt.

I could see Carr winning a championship IDK why people think he's sucks so much. 

[Jpoore]

Chase young and it’s not even close

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-26-2019, 12:54 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Chase young and it’s not even close

Actually it’s quite close...

[ElkValleyBengal]

Apparently Vernon Gholston had problems with knee bend and sinking his hips- issues not present with Young. Gholston was shorter also. Pat Kirwin on NFL Radio has mentioned how pro ready the Ohio State DEs seem to be- hand usage among other things. I'm of the opinion that Young is clearly the most impactful player in the upcoming draft.

[Bilbo Saggins]

If you are going to swing for the fences and actually try to compete for championships?  Take Burrow.  The guy may have the requisite smarts, work-a-holism, and physical attributes to be a damn good franchise QB in the NFL.  Is it risky to take a QB?  Always.  Does this guy check a whole lot of boxes, including a willingness to improve himself and to strive for perfection?  Soundly and decisively. I don't care if there is some "jump" in skill that occurs with QBs at certain ages.  I don't care if there's a high bust rate for QBs.  I don't care if he doesn't have a cannon arm or lambo wheels.  The guy has gone out and elevated himself from playing four elite graded games played in a season to nearly ALL of his games being elite caliber in a season.  He has elevated himself from a whipping boy who was derided as being a "D-III QB" to one of the most efficient college passers of all time.  What he has done is actually inspiring.  It actually may instill some confidence that the franchise is willing to go for the jugular, to put its chips in the middle, and to aggressively pursue a strategy that may give you the best odds at winning a championship. I say roll the dice and go for the guy who is most likely to be the next Brady/Brees type of talent if you can.

Chase Young has been inspiring in his own right, and looks to quite probably have a bright future as a pro.  I have no bias against the guy or his position, but this is a HC's league, a GM's league, and a QB's league.  The nerve center of a team is the most important aspect. Elite employees at those positions tend to have more of a "grand slam" effect than having elite employees at other positions.  How good were the Raiders with Khalil Mack?  How good were the Packers with Aaron Rodgers and plenty of holes?  Which of those teams during those timeframes were more dangerous as far as actually running the tables and beating elite teams in meaningful games?

[*ochocincos*]

(11-25-2019, 12:12 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Rivers could be available then we could draft Young if we wanna go that route.   Or we can suck for a couple more years n keep stocking up high picks.

There is no way without massively overpaying that Philip Rivers would come to Cincinnati.

[Au165]

(11-26-2019, 10:45 AM)ochocincos Wrote: There is no way without massively overpaying that Philip Rivers would come to Cincinnati.

I think Phillip Rivers is LAC or retires. He has 12 kids he isn't bringing them to Cincinnati or anywhere else for that matter. He kept his house in SD and drives over 2 hours to practice each day so he didn't have to uproot his family. 

[Au165]

(11-26-2019, 04:11 AM)ElkValleyBengal Wrote: Apparently Vernon Gholston had problems with knee bend and sinking his hips- issues not present with Young.  Gholston was shorter also.  Pat Kirwin on NFL Radio has mentioned how pro ready the Ohio State DEs seem to be- hand usage among other things.  I'm of the opinion that Young is clearly the most impactful player in the upcoming draft.

Also, they test for steroids in the NFL....that was a problem for him. 

[*psychdoctor*]

I am still on the fence for this one. I think as the season progresses and the CFP have completed, people will have a clearer picture. I hope OSU meets LSU and the head-to-head match-up will illustrate both athletes skills. I do believe Burrow is a Franchise QB and I do believe Young is rare edge rusher.

I do not think the Bengals should trade down. It comes down to team fit. With Taylor as OC, the offense is struggling. Dalton as the starter will probably not change things as he had difficulties for the first 8 games. Bengals clearly need a new QB. The question is if they can get someone later in the draft that is a difference maker at QB.

I do not trust Mike Brown on selections of QB. You put Burrow behind this OL with this staff, they may win a couple games. If they fire Turner and bring in Callahan and draft Kindly, Niang, Austin Jackson or at least two of these it will help. So assuming Jonah Williams is a good LT and the Bengals draft Kindly LG and Niang RT, Burrow could make a difference but the Bengals would not be able to replace Young in this draft unless they get Gross-Matos, maybe Weaver.

If the Bengals draft Young and a backer and maybe Eason or Fromm, it could work. I think Fromm is not mobile and the Dalton comparisons are valid but Fromm has a better arm with more accuracy. He is still very young. Eason has the best arm I have seen in quite a while and is a better fit compared to Herbert. But he is raw and will need time for touch-throws. Herbert would be a disaster pick, one that Mike Brown would make if he is there in second round. Gordon is intriguing and could be there in round 3-4.

The QB that, if he declares, I really like that no one seems to talk about is Mond. He has the tools he is a Junior and somewhat inconsistent but I like Mond.

Then there is Tua. As a Bengal fan, I would cringe every time he is hit. If he is healthy and can be taken in round 2, Young-Tua would be awesome.

My gut tells me Burrow will be a Bengal. If the Bengals skip on Young and go with Burrow, they better draft at least 2 OL competent players and send Hart walking. Williams better fit the bill at LT or the Burrow pick will do nothing. If they pick Burrow, I hope they draft at least one WR.

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-26-2019, 05:47 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I am still on the fence for this one.  I think as the season progresses and the CFP have completed, people will have a clearer picture.  I hope OSU meets LSU and the head-to-head match-up will illustrate both athletes skills.  I do believe Burrow is a Franchise QB and I do believe Young is rare edge rusher.  

I do not think the Bengals should trade down.  It comes down to team fit.  With Taylor as OC, the offense is struggling.  Dalton as the starter will probably not change things as he had difficulties for the first 8 games.  Bengals clearly need a new QB.  The question is if they can get someone later in the draft that is a difference maker at QB.  

I do not trust Mike Brown on selections of QB.  You put Burrow behind this OL with this staff, they may win a couple games.  If they fire Turner and bring in Callahan and draft Kindly, Niang, Austin Jackson or at least two of these it will help.  So assuming Jonah Williams is a good LT and the Bengals draft Kindly LG and Niang RT, Burrow could make a difference but the Bengals would not be able to replace Young in this draft unless they get Gross-Matos, maybe Weaver.  

If the Bengals draft Young and a backer and maybe Eason or Fromm, it could work.  I think Fromm is not mobile and the Dalton comparisons are valid but Fromm has a better arm with more accuracy.  He is still very young.  Eason has the best arm I have seen in quite a while and is a better fit compared to Herbert. But he is raw and will need time for touch-throws. Herbert would be a disaster pick, one that Mike Brown would make if he is there in second round.    Gordon is intriguing and could be there in round 3-4.  

The QB that, if he declares, I really like that no one seems to talk about is Mond.  He has the tools he is a Junior and somewhat inconsistent but I like Mond.  

Then there is Tua.  As a Bengal fan, I would cringe every time he is hit.  If he is healthy and can be taken in round 2, Young-Tua would be awesome.  

My gut tells me Burrow will be a Bengal.  If the Bengals skip on Young and go with Burrow, they better draft at least 2 OL competent players and send Hart walking.  Williams better fit the bill at LT or the Burrow pick will do nothing.  If they pick Burrow, I hope they draft at least one WR.

I'm still a little bit on the fence but I'm leaning a bit more towards team Burrow. Now I won't in any way angry if we get Young.

If, lota if's coming here. If we had a real GM, if I trusted ZT a little more, if I knew MB wouldn't throw his hat in the ring. I'd be more on board with taking CY 1OA, taking a day 2 QB then going best Oline, LB, WR, etc.

But then like Ochocincos said we'd prolly go back 6 - 9 wins for 3 more years and miss any chance to draft a top tier QB. When was the last time MB traded up in round 1 ?

There's just so much to fix. Just crossing fingers ZT and Co. finally decide on a plan instead of just bouncing off walls as it seems now.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-26-2019, 12:35 AM)J24 Wrote: I could see Carr winning a championship IDK why people think he's sucks so much. 

I don't think he sucks at all. He's just not a franchise-altering QB. Which is kinda what we need to overcome this front office, IMO.

[J24]

(11-26-2019, 07:14 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I don't think he sucks at all. He's just not a franchise-altering QB. Which is kinda what we need to overcome this front office, IMO.

Honestly I don't think anything can overcome this front office at all.  I'm worried that Burrow is going to pull an Eli Manning .
Honestly if we keep the #1 pick then draft Burrow but like you I don't think the Chase Young argument is that bad of an argument.
However I think we should look into trading the pick.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-26-2019, 05:47 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I am still on the fence for this one.  I think as the season progresses and the CFP have completed, people will have a clearer picture.  I hope OSU meets LSU and the head-to-head match-up will illustrate both athletes skills.  I do believe Burrow is a Franchise QB and I do believe Young is rare edge rusher.  

I do not think the Bengals should trade down.  It comes down to team fit.  With Taylor as OC, the offense is struggling.  Dalton as the starter will probably not change things as he had difficulties for the first 8 games.  Bengals clearly need a new QB.  The question is if they can get someone later in the draft that is a difference maker at QB.  

I do not trust Mike Brown on selections of QB.  You put Burrow behind this OL with this staff, they may win a couple games.  If they fire Turner and bring in Callahan and draft Kindly, Niang, Austin Jackson or at least two of these it will help.  So assuming Jonah Williams is a good LT and the Bengals draft Kindly LG and Niang RT, Burrow could make a difference but the Bengals would not be able to replace Young in this draft unless they get Gross-Matos, maybe Weaver.  

If the Bengals draft Young and a backer and maybe Eason or Fromm, it could work.  I think Fromm is not mobile and the Dalton comparisons are valid but Fromm has a better arm with more accuracy.  He is still very young.  Eason has the best arm I have seen in quite a while and is a better fit compared to Herbert. But he is raw and will need time for touch-throws. Herbert would be a disaster pick, one that Mike Brown would make if he is there in second round.    Gordon is intriguing and could be there in round 3-4.  

The QB that, if he declares, I really like that no one seems to talk about is Mond.  He has the tools he is a Junior and somewhat inconsistent but I like Mond.  

Then there is Tua.  As a Bengal fan, I would cringe every time he is hit.  If he is healthy and can be taken in round 2, Young-Tua would be awesome.  

My gut tells me Burrow will be a Bengal.  If the Bengals skip on Young and go with Burrow, they better draft at least 2 OL competent players and send Hart walking.  Williams better fit the bill at LT or the Burrow pick will do nothing.  If they pick Burrow, I hope they draft at least one WR.

Great post. Assuming the Bengals do the right thing and work hard to fix this o-line, I have little doubt that Burrow is the right pick. If they don't work hard to fix this line, we're probably screwed anyway. Chase Young would just be a shiny toy to watch in between 3 and outs.

I also think Burrow will be the pick. He's probably the Heisman winner, he's an Ohio product (former Mr Football winner) and he can even wear Carson's old number. He'll sell tickets and he's probably the right pick anyway. Seems a no-brainer to me. Which means we'll trade down and take Tua.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-26-2019, 07:26 PM)J24 Wrote: Honestly I don't think anything can overcome this front office at all.  I'm worried that Burrow is going to pull an Eli Manning .
Honestly if we keep the #1 pick then draft Burrow but like you I don't think the Chase Young argument is that bad of an argument.
However I think we should look into trading the pick.

Maybe not...and maybe he does pull an Eli. It wouldn't surprise me. I respect the Chase Young argument, but I just don't quite agree with it. I get where people are coming from though. I think trading the pick is the worst option, unless we sign a guy like Cam Newton before the draft. Even then, I still think it's a bad idea, because signing a guy like Cam would be expensive and keep us from signing free agents to improve this o-line and LB's.

We can't always look to the draft to solve every issue. It seems like a terrible idea to bring in a vet QB, then rely 100% on rookies to fix this line (which is what we've been trying for 4 years now). Take the stud QB prospect, use the money saved to invest in guys who can help now. That seems like the standard NFL model, and it's what the Rams did a few years ago.

[SunsetBengal]

(11-26-2019, 07:36 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Maybe not...and maybe he does pull an Eli. It wouldn't surprise me. I respect the Chase Young argument, but I just don't quite agree with it. I get where people are coming from though. I think trading the pick is the worst option, unless we sign a guy like Cam Newton before the draft. Even then, I still think it's a bad idea, because signing a guy like Cam would be expensive and keep us from signing free agents to improve this o-line and LB's.

We can't always look to the draft to solve every issue. It seems like a terrible idea to bring in a vet QB, then rely 100% on rookies to fix this line (which is what we've been trying for 4 years now). Take the stud QB prospect, use the money saved to invest in guys who can help now. That seems like the standard NFL model, and it's what the Rams did a few years ago.

The way for the Bengals to avoid being "Elied" is to sign a couple of name brand OL in free agency, prior to the draft.  Show Burrow that it is an inviting atmosphere being prepared for his arrival, like they actually want him to succeed.