Free Agent QB instead?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-27-2019, 11:31 PM)jason Wrote: I get what you're saying, but I'd rather have the sure thing... Everyone is drooling over Burrow, but he doesn't have a huge sample size, and QB is a very hard position to evaluate. They don't have to "rush" Chase Young onto the field... Line him up and turn him loose. This team has a ton of needs, and we need a home run this draft. If we miss on a QB (and it is more likely that Burrow will miss than Young will) it will set this team back even farther. They'll probably draft Burrow because teams get foolish every spring, but I like the way the 49ers now and Seahawks years ago built themselves into contenders.

I'm actually really excited to see Young and Burrow square off in January... Hopefully it happens.

1. There is no sure things when drafting.

2. Taking Burrow would be in absolutely no way “foolish.” I’d actually argue passing on a QB when we don’t have a franchise guy would be the foolish move.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-27-2019, 11:36 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: 1. There is no sure things when drafting.

2. Taking Burrow would be in absolutely no way “foolish.” I’d actually argue passing on a QB when we don’t have a franchise guy would be the foolish move.

Indeed. It's higher risk/higher reward.

IF say we add Chase Young and he gets 10 sacks in Year 1...that helps, but I doubt it adds many wins. IF we draft a QB and he throws 30 TDs and 10 Ints...THAT will lead to wins.

[Tiger Teeth]

(11-28-2019, 01:17 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Indeed. It's higher risk/higher reward.

IF say we add Chase Young and he gets 10 sacks in Year 1...that helps, but I doubt it adds many wins. IF we draft a QB and he throws 30 TDs and 10 Ints...THAT will lead to wins.

Well here's a first.  You and I finally agree on something.

[*jason*]

(11-27-2019, 11:36 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: 1. There is no sure things when drafting.

2. Taking Burrow would be in absolutely no way “foolish.” I’d actually argue passing on a QB when we don’t have a franchise guy would be the foolish move.

Maybe not a sure thing, but easier to gauge and more immediate impact...

Nick Boss (instant impact)/ Kyler Murray (maybe he's good)

Bradley Chubb (immediate impact)/ Baker Mayfield (depends who you ask)

Myles Garrett (really damn good)/ Mitch Trubisky (not so much)

Joey Bosa (missed all of camp and preseason, came in wrecking shop)/ Jared Goff (I guess he's had his moments... He's hurting his team right now)


I think most of us agree that we're in a spot where we need to tear it up, and burn it down. There are several needs, so I think BPA is our friend these next few years. I just don't wanna fall into that Cleveland Browns trap of swingin' and missin' on QB after QB while the rest of the team sucks.

Pistons just threw out the if a pass rusher gets 10 sacks it may not lead to more wins. If a QB throws 30 TDs it will lead to more wins... Which one of those is more likely? Spoiler alert; a rookie QB has never thrown 30 TDs... Only 3 have come remotely close. One of those 3 was a fourth round pick who was drafted on to a reeeaaally good roster.

[BengalsRocker]

(11-28-2019, 10:33 AM)jason Wrote: Maybe not a sure thing, but easier to gauge and more immediate impact...

Nick Boss (instant impact)/ Kyler Murray (maybe he's good)

Bradley Chubb (immediate impact)/ Baker Mayfield (depends who you ask)

Myles Garrett (really damn good)/ Mitch Trubisky (not so much)

Joey Bosa (missed all of camp and preseason, came in wrecking shop)/ Jared Goff (I guess he's had his moments... He's hurting his team right now)


I think most of us agree that we're in a spot where we need to tear it up, and burn it down. There are several needs, so I think BPA is our friend these next few years. I just don't wanna fall into that Cleveland Browns trap of swingin' and missin' on QB after QB while the rest of the team sucks.

Pistons just threw out the if a pass rusher gets 10 sacks it may not lead to more wins. If a QB throws 30 TDs it will lead to more wins... Which one of those is more likely? Spoiler alert; a rookie QB has never thrown 30 TDs... Only 3 have come remotely close. One of those 3 was a fourth round pick who was drafted on to a reeeaaally good roster.

If this team wasn't run by morons they'd draft Young with a rookie contract and part ways with Dunlap.

Use the money from cutting him(or trade if possible).  Almost 10 million after dead money hit.

Cut Dre Kirkpatrick.

Almost 14 million after dead money hit.

Two players that's 24 million to spend in the next two seasons.

They won't do it.  That's the problem.

They say they live by the draft and so they kill available FA money by sitting on their hands when current players aren't productive.

Preston Brown being released was kind of a shock to be honest because he's the typical kind of player they live out the contract with.

Don't even get me started on that Gio contract.  WTF?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-28-2019, 10:33 AM)jason Wrote: Maybe not a sure thing, but easier to gauge and more immediate impact...

Nick Boss (instant impact)/ Kyler Murray (maybe he's good)

Bradley Chubb (immediate impact)/ Baker Mayfield (depends who you ask)

Myles Garrett (really damn good)/ Mitch Trubisky (not so much)

Joey Bosa (missed all of camp and preseason, came in wrecking shop)/ Jared Goff (I guess he's had his moments... He's hurting his team right now)


I think most of us agree that we're in a spot where we need to tear it up, and burn it down. There are several needs, so I think BPA is our friend these next few years. I just don't wanna fall into that Cleveland Browns trap of swingin' and missin' on QB after QB while the rest of the team sucks.

Pistons just threw out the if a pass rusher gets 10 sacks it may not lead to more wins. If a QB throws 30 TDs it will lead to more wins... Which one of those is more likely? Spoiler alert; a rookie QB has never thrown 30 TDs... Only 3 have come remotely close. One of those 3 was a fourth round pick who was drafted on to a reeeaaally good roster.

Only one of those defensive players you named is playing on a winning team right now. I’m not sure that helps your case that they made an immediate impact.

And I’m sure in Denver’s case they wish they had a QB right now...

As far as not wanting to turn into the Browns, that ship has sailed. We’re 0-11, have a terrible coach, and are by far the worst team in the league.

[*jason*]

(11-28-2019, 10:47 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Only one of those defensive players you named is playing on a winning team right now. I’m not sure that helps your case that they made an immediate impact.

And I’m sure in Denver’s case they wish they had a QB right now...

As far as not wanting to turn into the Browns, that ship has sailed. We’re 0-11, have a terrible coach, and are by far the worst team in the league.

Yes but let's not turn this into 20 years of the Browns. It's gonna be hard for Burrow or any QB to come on to a team with no O line, probably Tyler Boyd as your best WR, shaky running game on a good day, and no defense... Oh yeah. Our coaches suck too. I'd just like to rebuild the roster before we start gambling on QBs... There are also really good QBs that weren't taken number 1 or even in the first round.... Unfortunately for us, we're leaving Mike Brown in charge of finding that guy.

Y'all will get your wish. That old man is easily distracted by shiney things so he'll go QB with the first pick.

[*Synric*]

(11-28-2019, 10:33 AM)jason Wrote: Maybe not a sure thing, but easier to gauge and more immediate impact...

Nick Boss (instant impact)/ Kyler Murray (maybe he's good)

Bradley Chubb (immediate impact)/ Baker Mayfield (depends who you ask)

Myles Garrett (really damn good)/ Mitch Trubisky (not so much)

Joey Bosa (missed all of camp and preseason, came in wrecking shop)/ Jared Goff (I guess he's had his moments... He's hurting his team right now)


I think most of us agree that we're in a spot where we need to tear it up, and burn it down. There are several needs, so I think BPA is our friend these next few years. I just don't wanna fall into that Cleveland Browns trap of swingin' and missin' on QB after QB while the rest of the team sucks.

Pistons just threw out the if a pass rusher gets 10 sacks it may not lead to more wins. If a QB throws 30 TDs it will lead to more wins... Which one of those is more likely? Spoiler alert; a rookie QB has never thrown 30 TDs... Only 3 have come remotely close. One of those 3 was a fourth round pick who was drafted on to a reeeaaally good roster.

You are naming two players out of each draft class it doesnt represent the whole.

Kyler Murray is having an ok year but the only other 3 rookie QBs that are playing are Haskins Jones and Finley all 3 of them are struggling two have been benched. Haskins is starting again though lol.

Now defensive ends you have Nick Bosa Brian Burns Montez Sweat Chase Winovich Maxx Crosby and arguably Clelin Ferrell. All are having great to good rookie years.

Edge defenders always have a bigger draft class and the percentage of finding a good one is alot better than finding a QB. So if they Bengals are sold on a QB you take him because they NEED a quarterback.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-28-2019, 10:59 AM)jason Wrote: Yes but let's not turn this into 20 years of the Browns. It's gonna be hard for Burrow or any QB to come on to a team with no O line, probably Tyler Boyd as your best WR, shaky running game on a good day, and no defense... Oh yeah. Our coaches suck too. I'd just like to rebuild the roster before we start gambling on QBs... There are also really good QBs that weren't taken number 1 or even in the first round.... Unfortunately for us, we're leaving Mike Brown in charge of finding that guy.

Y'all will get your wish. That old man is easily distracted by shiney things so he'll go QB with the first pick.

Right...that’s why we’ve gone OL with 3 out of our last 5 first round picks. We all know OT’s and OG’s sell tickets!

[*jason*]

(11-28-2019, 11:06 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Right...that’s why we’ve gone OL with 3 out of our last 5 first round picks. We all know OT’s and OG’s sell tickets!

We were "building" around the QB we had... OTs and Gs may not sell tickets, but they win games. That's why we don't. But hey; one of the times we didn't draft a linemen we got the really fast guy.

[*jason*]

(11-28-2019, 11:00 AM)Synric Wrote: You are naming two players out of each draft class it doesnt represent the whole.

Kyler Murray is having an ok year but the only other 3 rookie QBs that are playing are Haskins Jones and Finley all 3 of them are struggling two have been benched. Haskins is starting again though lol.

Now defensive ends you have Nick Bosa Brian Burns Montez Sweat Chase Winovich Maxx Crosby and arguably Clelin Ferrell. All are having great to good rookie years.

Edge defenders always have a bigger draft class and the percentage of finding a good one is alot better than finding a QB. So if they Bengals are sold on a QB you take him because they NEED a quarterback.

Well yes... It was just a comparison of top pick vs top pick at the positions.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-28-2019, 11:20 AM)jason Wrote: We were "building" around the QB we had... OTs and Gs may not sell tickets, but they win games. That's why we don't. But hey; one of the times we didn't draft a linemen we got the really fast guy.

Based on our recent draft history I don’t see why so many people think we’ll be able to start nailing pick after pick and “fix the OL” or “build up the defense” before we worry about taking a QB. There is literally one position that can overcome weaknesses all over the rest of the team. That’s why I’d rather roll the dice on someone like Burrow.

[Luvnit2]

I have not read through the entire thread, but my 2 cents is Dalton is not close to being our number 1 priority so I disagree Dalton is not the guy. Dalton is under contract for 1 more year, he will be our best cap option versus Teddy (he will be expensive), you mention Dalton is not the guy because he got benched, but then add 2 QB's that were benched to your choices?

I think we draft Chase young, get back Williams on the OL and then use the draft and free agency to build the trenches on offense and defense with goal of winning the LOS battles and developing a dominant defense sooner than later. We have AD under a team friendly contract for one more year, we get AJ signed long term and see what happens in 2020. If it falls apart again, then we go after our QB of the future.

I look at your options and there is not 1 clear cut guy on it that is better than AD in my opinion, so your premise would be to change QB's for the sake of changing. Just my take.

[kalibengal]

(11-27-2019, 11:31 PM)jason Wrote: I get what you're saying, but I'd rather have the sure thing... Everyone is drooling over Burrow, but he doesn't have a huge sample size, and QB is a very hard position to evaluate. They don't have to "rush" Chase Young onto the field... Line him up and turn him loose. This team has a ton of needs, and we need a home run this draft. If we miss on a QB (and it is more likely that Burrow will miss than Young will) it will set this team back even farther. They'll probably draft Burrow because teams get foolish every spring, but I like the way the 49ers now and Seahawks years ago built themselves into contenders.

I'm actually really excited to see Young and Burrow square off in January... Hopefully it happens.

Im kind of liking the idea of bringing in Mariota in offseason and drafting Young. This OL needs a mobile QB not a statue like Rivers. This would buy us time to either draft a Jalen Hurts in 2nd round perhaps and let him sit for a yr and learning. Mariota was not a bad QB once upon a time in NFL . But I just cant help but wonder how does an 0-16 team with a kid coach and reputation as a badly run team attract anything beyond a fringe FA out of the league guy? They will need to overpay people just to have a shot. 

[*jason*]

(11-28-2019, 03:47 PM)kalibengal Wrote: Im kind of liking the idea of bringing in Mariota in offseason and drafting Young. This OL needs a mobile QB not a statue like Rivers. This would buy us time to either draft a Jalen Hurts in 2nd round perhaps and let him sit for a yr and learning. Mariota was not a bad QB once upon a time in NFL . But I just cant help but wonder how does an 0-16 team with a kid coach and reputation as a badly run team attract anything beyond a fringe FA out of the league guy? They will need to overpay people just to have a shot. 

Really wouldn't hurt to overpay a guy for a year. Draft Young, trade Dunlap, wouldn't worry about Hurts in the 2nd... I'd rather try and land an OT. Best case scenario; Mariota revives his career, and we're set there... Worst case; they suck again, and go after Lawrence the following year.

[Daddy-O]

(11-27-2019, 10:58 AM)fortyyearfan Wrote: I am saying this for all to read,we need to draft MR.CHASE YOUNG he is a difference maker and the best player in this draft,and I am going to be pulling for him to come here,I will be writing the front office on getting this guy,people like him only come around every 10 years.

Please stop this Chase Young madness!

Heard a stat the other day:  A stud DL will win you 1 game a year in the NFL.  A good QB will win you 6 games a year.  

I like Chase Young as much as the next guy but you don't pass up taking a QB with the top draft choice if you don't already have one.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-29-2019, 10:58 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: Please stop this Chase Young madness!

Heard a stat the other day:  A stud DL will win you 1 game a year in the NFL.  A good QB will win you 6 games a year.  

I like Chase Young as much as the next guy but you don't pass up taking a QB with the top draft choice if you don't already have one.

Exactly. What’s really funny to me is that people don’t want to draft a QB until we “fix the OL” but are dead set on taking a DE with our 1st pick lol

[BacknDaDey]

I'm not totally sold on Burrows. I'm thinking he's a one hit wonder or a system QB at LSU. How come he couldn't beat out Haskins and J.T. Barrett when he was at Ohio State? Haskins and Barrett isn't all that in the NFL. That's why I want Chase Young. Try and trade down with whoever ends up #2 or #3 in the draft. Pick up extra picks to help fix OL and LB'ers. Change your way of thinking about free agency.

[*jason*]

(11-29-2019, 11:28 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Exactly. What’s really funny to me is that people don’t want to draft a QB until we “fix the OL” but are dead set on taking a DE with our 1st pick lol

If there were a once every ten year prospect at O line, I think we'd be all for it. Chase Young is that... None of these QBs are. When your roster is sorely lacking, BPA is your friend. If management were smart, they'd have the ability to trade Dunlap, and sign a proven linemen too. The other option is to plop a 50/50 prospect of a QB onto a team with no identity, and very little talent, and hope that he hits, and gives us 6 more wins or whatever.

It is pretty cool that we have the chance to see them square off in the college football playoff this year. Part of me wonders if they'll both pull a Bungle To Not Be a Bungle during that game.

[fredtoast]

(11-28-2019, 11:29 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: There is literally one position that can overcome weaknesses all over the rest of the team.

The QB who can win without talent around him is a myth.

Drew Brees had 4 losing seasons in 5 years ('12-'16)

Aaron Rodgers was 10-12-1 over the last two seasons.