(06-30-2016, 02:20 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: I read or heard somewhere that all of the main buildings in Kings Landing were lined with the Wildfire just like the Great Sept (courtesy of the Mad King, I believe). Will Cersei play Nero when Dany arrives? That would make things interesting since Jaime's main reason for killing the Mad King was to prevent the same thing that Cersei might do.
A Dany/Jaime match makes political sense. But Jamie is linked to Cersei too much. I have to think that if she dies, he will too (sort of in a twisted, incestuous Romeo and Juliette way...LOL).
plus there is the small thing of Jaime having murdered dany's father. But yeah tyrion had read or heard about what the mad king had planned to do from Jaime and maybe during his time with the pyromancers....
It was the rumor ceresi was having qyborn check out and as we saw on sunday that rumor is very true... And ceresi is the type to burn it all before having it taken away.
(06-30-2016, 02:12 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: by the rules of westros... im not sure who should be on the throne... Any of Roberts bastards have a better claim than ceresi I would think.. As throne doesn't pass from son to mother. But there are only maybe 3 bastards left after Ceresi had them hunted down and 1 was never introduced into the show. Edric Storm (conceived by Robert during stannis wedding in stannis's wedding bed) Gentry Not sure about his mother. And Miya Stone (although being a girl in the current westros wont help her claim)
But at this point its hard to think any houses are backing the lannisters anymore after ceresi's actions... plenty will say they do to avoid that wraith but when it comes time to call to arms I think they don't show for the MAD Queen. And Jamie killed the mad king for thinking about burning down the city.. what will he do to Ceresi knowning she cost him his last child. or will it be tryion to finish her off. or arya....
either way by then end of this show only maybe 1 or 2 of the original great houses will still be standing. the Barathons are gone unless someone legitimizes a bastard (arya vouching for Gentry???) to reestablish the house (its been done before) The Targs are gone unless jon takes that name there will be no more targ babys. (or some of the left overs from the dragon wars bastards who fought for the throne) Lannisters are down to Jaime and Ceresi and maybe some lesser known cousins roaming around. Tyrells just about got wiped out. Martells only the sandsnakes remain. Starks.. Still hanging around... the Greyjoys are about to wipe themselves out. the Tullys are all but gone. but demure does have a baby on the way.
out of that maybe the starks make it out but only if jon takes the stark name or sansa has her husband take the stark name..(im sure someone will do that)
the smaller houses are licking their chops for power grabs I have to imagine. of course it will be a moot point soon.
The thing about thrones is, the person that is "supposed" to be there is the person that is currently there. Laws and lineage is always loosely followed. Much less than who is the strongest and most capable to take it, and who is able to maintain it.
"The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
(06-30-2016, 02:29 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: plus there is the small thing of Jaime having murdered dany's father. But yeah tyrion had read or heard about what the mad king had planned to do from Jaime and maybe during his time with the pyromancers....
It was the rumor ceresi was having qyborn check out and as we saw on sunday that rumor is very true... And ceresi is the type to burn it all before having it taken away.
Now that her children are gone, she has nothing left. She really doesn't care all that much for Jaime anymore. I think Jaime will soon realize this. In a way, the Undead Mountain is a physical manifestation of her soul: lifeless and angry at the living. She broke during the shame walk.
(06-30-2016, 02:20 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: I read or heard somewhere that all of the main buildings in Kings Landing were lined with the Wildfire just like the Great Sept. Will Cersei play Nero when Dany arrives?
I was wondering if that was all the wildfire (it WAS an awful lot!). While the flashback to "burn them all" COULD be considered to mean the whole city, it's not remotely clear if there is more wildfire left.
Unless there was just way, way too much I doubt Cersei would have saved any. Pretty much all her opponents were vanquished, save Dorne. She probably doesn't know about Dany, or Jon...or worry about Littlefinger.
(06-30-2016, 07:19 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: I was wondering if that was all the wildfire (it WAS an awful lot!). While the flashback to "burn them all" COULD be considered to mean the whole city, it's not remotely clear if there is more wildfire left.
Unless there was just way, way too much I doubt Cersei would have saved any. Pretty much all her opponents were vanquished, save Dorne. She probably doesn't know about Dany, or Jon...or worry about Littlefinger.
I went back and watched the last four episodes of the past season and it seems to me that that was a dialogue between two characters (perhaps Tyrion to Dany). They said that all of the major buildings were wired with Wildfire, and then they named off three or four. I distinctly remember the Sept and the Red Tower.
If I have a chance this weekend, I'll go back and see if I can find it.
(06-30-2016, 09:01 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: I went back and watched the last four episodes of the past season and it seems to me that that was a dialogue between two characters (perhaps Tyrion to Dany). They said that all of the major buildings were wired with Wildfire, and then they named off three or four. I distinctly remember the Sept and the Red Tower.
Interesting. I clearly missed it. Along those same, very subtle, lines...Tyrion mentioned something rather casually about Unsullied and Dothraki being useless at sea - I'm willing to bet Euron is going to decimate her fleet somehow. That seems especially likely if the theory about the horn bringing down the wall is to come into play. And that may be hard to swallow given Dany has "air support",
I may re-watch the season at some point. There was definitely an unusual amount of foreshadowing (at least for this show) this past season.
Another thing to look for - how does Arya order her "list"? Wondering if Walter Frey wasn't the first living one on the list (not that it would necessarily help, since half her list is dead in other ways).
Speaking of foreshadowing, was it too on the nose that Walder Frey was talking about "the legendary Blackfish beaten by a common infantry"?
Seemed very intentional to me, even how it was phrased like "that didn't really happen, did it"? Just in case you thought he was probably actually dead, like me, they're basically saying - blatantly - a redshirt taking out the Blackfish is hard to believe.
(06-30-2016, 09:35 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Interesting. I clearly missed it. Along those same, very subtle, lines...Tyrion mentioned something rather casually about Unsullied and Dothraki being useless at sea - I'm willing to bet Euron is going to decimate her fleet somehow. That seems especially likely if the theory about the horn bringing down the wall is to come into play. And that may be hard to swallow given Dany has "air support",
I may re-watch the season at some point. There was definitely an unusual amount of foreshadowing (at least for this show) this past season.
Another thing to look for - how does Arya order her "list"? Wondering if Walter Frey wasn't the first living one on the list (not that it would necessarily help, since half her list is dead in other ways).
If the (still hypothetical on the TV show) horn does what Euron claims it does, then he would be able to control dragons. That could easily decimate Dany's fleet. I see Euron's and Yara's fleets battling just off the coast of Westeros, Yara's fleet winning because of dragons, and a desperate Euron reaching for the horn and gaining control of the dragons.
I would have to think Frey and sons were number one on the list because of Red Wedding.
(06-30-2016, 09:45 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Speaking of foreshadowing, was it too on the nose that Walder Frey was talking about "the legendary Blackfish beaten by a common infantry"?
Seemed very intentional to me, even how it was phrased like "that didn't really happen, did it"? Just in case you thought he was probably actually dead, like me, they're basically saying - blatantly - a redshirt taking out the Blackfish is hard to believe.
I was wondering the same thing. They didn't show him die. And he is clearly very shrewd. Outside of posturing, his appearance on the show was pretty meh.
There are a lot of theories floating around about the Melissandra. They had the big foreshadowing scene with her at Castle Black where she takes off her necklace and she is suddenly ancient. The necklace appears to be some sort of ancient artifact and the source of her magic. There are theories about her being linked to Jon where he cannot die while she lives and he will die if she dies. Some interesting stuff. Also, she is from Bravos, home of "A-man-has-no-name" who is equally creepy, highly interested in Arya, and who apparently has some type of magic link with deities. Or maybe it is no link at all. Maybe they are aspects of the Seven (maybe the Crone and the Stranger)....
(For those reading who don't know The Seven new gods, they are: The Father, the Mother, the Warrior, the Maiden, the Smith, the Crone and the Stranger. Their areas of influence area: judgement, motherhood, combat, innocence, crafting, wisdom, and death respectively).
(06-30-2016, 10:29 PM)Bengalzona Wrote:
If the (still hypothetical on the TV show) horn does what Euron claims it does, then he would be able to control dragons. That could easily decimate Dany's fleet. I see Euron's and Yara's fleets battling just off the coast of Westeros, Yara's fleet winning because of dragons, and a desperate Euron reaching for the horn and gaining control of the dragons.
I would have to think Frey and sons were number one on the list because of Red Wedding.
I was wondering the same thing. They didn't show him die. And he is clearly very shrewd. Outside of posturing, his appearance on the show was pretty meh.
There are a lot of theories floating around about the Melissandra. They had the big foreshadowing scene with her at Castle Black where she takes off her necklace and she is suddenly ancient. The necklace appears to be some sort of ancient artifact and the source of her magic. There are theories about her being linked to Jon where he cannot die while she lives and he will die if she dies. Some interesting stuff. Also, she is from Bravos, home of "A-man-has-no-name" who is equally creepy, highly interested in Arya, and who apparently has some type of magic link with deities. Or maybe it is no link at all. Maybe they are aspects of the Seven (maybe the Crone and the Stranger)....
(For those reading who don't know The Seven new gods, they are: The Father, the Mother, the Warrior, the Maiden, the Smith, the Crone and the Stranger. Their areas of influence area: judgement, motherhood, combat, innocence, crafting, wisdom, and death respectively).
I thought "the stranger" was when you sat on your hand for a few minutes to make it numb, then rubbed one out?
"The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
Deity Aspect - Linked 'Good Guy' Character
The Father - Tyrion: He has pretty much consistently demonstrated good judgement.
The Mother - Daenerys: While she cannot birth children anymore (yet?), she has always demonstrated a motherly, nurturing to her followers.
The Warrior - Jon: It is all he is good at. He really isn't so bright.
The Maiden - Sansa: Even though she has been around many horrible things, there is still an innocence about her.
The Smith - Sam: I originally would have said Gendry, but he hasn't been seen since season three.
The Crone - Davos: He is a wise person.
The Stranger - Arya: This is the strongest link.
Deity Aspect - Linked 'Bad Guy' Character
The Father - Littlefinger: He's vile, but he has good judgment.
The Mother - Cersei: Motherhood gone wrong.
The Warrior - Jaime:
The Maiden - The Sand Snakes
The Smith - ?
The Crone - Olenna Tyrell
The Stranger - ?
I postulate that the Seven (technically one entity with seven aspects) walks Westeros in human form(s) and is influencing events and characters in different guises. Such as:
The Stranger = "A-man-has-no-name" dude
The Crone = Mellisandra
The Father = Varys?
Not expecting people to 'buy into' this. Just throwing it out for thoughts.
(06-30-2016, 09:01 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: I went back and watched the last four episodes of the past season and it seems to me that that was a dialogue between two characters (perhaps Tyrion to Dany). They said that all of the major buildings were wired with Wildfire, and then they named off three or four. I distinctly remember the Sept and the Red Tower.
If I have a chance this weekend, I'll go back and see if I can find it.
Jaime told Brienne all about the Mad King an how he had wildfire stashed underneath most of Kings Landing. Its under the Red Keep, was under the Sept, and is under the major thoroughfares. The Mad King was going to burn Kings Landing and everything/everyone in it rather than let Tywin Lannister take it at the end of the rebellion. That's why Jaime killed him....to save innocent lives.
(06-30-2016, 10:29 PM)Bengalzona Wrote:
If the (still hypothetical on the TV show) horn does what Euron claims it does, then he would be able to control dragons. That could easily decimate Dany's fleet. I see Euron's and Yara's fleets battling just off the coast of Westeros, Yara's fleet winning because of dragons, and a desperate Euron reaching for the horn and gaining control of the dragons.
When Dany rejects Euron's proposal (if he even gets the opportunity), I'd assume he won't just turn around and go home since he's clearly a lunatic. And I'd assume his fleet is not going to just easily be annihilated.
Will certainly be a devastating twist if Dany's army is wiped out...although she'd still have [maybe] Dorne and Highgarden.
There's also now a Red Priestess heading south who hasn't heard of Dany yet....She'll probably think Drogon is the Lord of Light and try to make wild, hot love with him.
(07-01-2016, 12:18 AM)Beaker Wrote: Jaime told Brienne all about the Mad King an how he had wildfire stashed underneath most of Kings Landing. Its under the Red Keep, was under the Sept, and is under the major thoroughfares. The Mad King was going to burn Kings Landing and everything/everyone in it rather than let Tywin Lannister take it at the end of the rebellion. That's why Jaime killed him....to save innocent lives.
Tyrion also discusses this with Daenerys at the start of the Battle of the Bastards episode. He tells Dany that Jaime confided in him that the Mad King had planted wildfire on "the Red Keep, the Great Sept, the guild halls and all the major thoroughfares."
In the episode before, Cersei's maester comes to her and discloses that his 'little birds' had confirmed the rumors were true and that they were "more than they imagined". We found out in the final episode that this must have meant the rumors of the wildfire.
Assuming that those rumors were the same as what Jaime shared with Brienne and Daenerys and knowing that Cersei only blew up the Great Sept, that means that the rest of the city is still wired and ready to blow. And Cersei has shown that she is willing to do it.
(07-01-2016, 08:28 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: that means that the rest of the city is still wired and ready to blow. And Cersei has shown that she is willing to do it.
That is where the rest of Maggy the Frog's prophecy will come true. She told Cersei the valanquar will strangle her. Valanquar means little brother in Valyrian. Jaime was the second twin, so technically both he and Tyrion are her little brothers. Tyrion already strangled Shea, plus I think we will find out that Tyrion is not really Tywins son, but also has Targaryon blood since he is the bastard product of Mad King Aerys affair/rape of Tywin's wife. That leaves Jaime to do the deed. I think he will be forced to strangle Cersei as she plans to set offf the remaining wildfire just like when he had to kill the Mad King as he was about to do the same thing. Jaime will then take his life, ending the Lannister threat. That is when the story will be able to turn its entire attention to the battle with the Night King.
(07-01-2016, 10:50 AM)Beaker Wrote: That is where the rest of Maggy the Frog's prophecy will come true. She told Cersei the valanquar will strangle her. Valanquar means little brother in Valyrian. Jaime was the second twin, so technically both he and Tyrion are her little brothers. Tyrion already strangled Shea, plus I think we will find out that Tyrion is not really Tywins son, but also has Targaryon blood since he is the bastard product of Mad King Aerys affair/rape of Tywin's wife. That leaves Jaime to do the deed. I think he will be forced to strangle Cersei as she plans to set offf the remaining wildfire just like when he had to kill the Mad King as he was about to do the same thing. Jaime will then take his life, ending the Lannister threat. That is when the story will be able to turn its entire attention to the battle with the Night King.
nah Jaime and breinne have to become a thing and make ugly 1 handed babys. I think Jaime kills ceresi when shes looking out at dannys army or the army of martells and tryells. and then offeres them kings landing and the dead queen and leaves for casterly rock.
(07-01-2016, 10:50 AM)Beaker Wrote: That is where the rest of Maggy the Frog's prophecy will come true. She told Cersei the valanquar will strangle her. Valanquar means little brother in Valyrian. Jaime was the second twin, so technically both he and Tyrion are her little brothers. Tyrion already strangled Shea, plus I think we will find out that Tyrion is not really Tywins son, but also has Targaryon blood since he is the bastard product of Mad King Aerys affair/rape of Tywin's wife. That leaves Jaime to do the deed. I think he will be forced to strangle Cersei as she plans to set offf the remaining wildfire just like when he had to kill the Mad King as he was about to do the same thing. Jaime will then take his life, ending the Lannister threat. That is when the story will be able to turn its entire attention to the battle with the Night King.
I agree.
If you notice, at least twice in the past four episodes Tyrion made comments to Daenerys comparing their fathers and stating how terrible they were. The first time I saw it, I didn't think much of it. But the second time was in the finale, and I thought to my self that it was funny they would mention it again. Now, I see it as foreshadowing the revelation.
If you notice, at least twice in the past four episodes Tyrion made comments to Daenerys comparing their fathers and stating how terrible they were. The first time I saw it, I didn't think much of it. But the second time was in the finale, and I thought to my self that it was funny they would mention it again. Now, I see it as foreshadowing the revelation.
Like I said, for a show that was so greatly unpredictable because they revealed so few hints, they really brought out the blunt hammer of foreshadowing with a vengeance this season!
And didn't Dany mention a few times something along the lines of destroying the Iron Throne, and creating an entire new system?
I'll make another prediction that Jaime's character arc will somehow complete when he sacrifices himself to save Bran, or perhaps a different Stark...maybe Arya will kill Cersei and Jaime helps get her safely out - perhaps teaming with The Hound to fight Undead Mountain.
(07-01-2016, 02:47 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Like I said, for a show that was so greatly unpredictable because they revealed so few hints, they really brought out the blunt hammer of foreshadowing with a vengeance this season!
And didn't Dany mention a few times something along the lines of destroying the Iron Throne, and creating an entire new system?
I'll make another prediction that Jaime's character arc will somehow complete when he sacrifices himself to save Bran, or perhaps a different Stark...maybe Arya will kill Cersei and Jaime helps get her safely out - perhaps teaming with The Hound to fight Undead Mountain.
Yeah I think Brans vision way back in book one where he sees a golden man a man with the face of a dog and over them looms a large shadow face as black as death.... Indicated those 3 will either meet in an epic battle at some point or.... something that would at least affect the starks.
But I think if the story line gets the Hound in position to be of help (maybe now that arya is back they meet up again on her way to kings landing even if the hound doesn't know its her at the time) I see Jaime and the hound fighting the mountain.
But so far everything is going the way Maggie had predicted. so I believe ceresi will die at Jamie's hand. and arya will show up in time to see it happen.
(07-01-2016, 03:05 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: But so far everything is going the way Maggie had predicted. so I believe ceresi will die at Jamie's hand. and arya will show up in time to see it happen.
But that could be an interesting curveball....for all the talk about fate and religion, Jon saw "nothing"....not something vague or incomprehensible, but "nothing".
I could see Jaime dying, and Cersei being cold and smug thinking "witch didn't know everything, after all"....shortly before Arya kills her.
Or how about this....presumably, Jaime is on Arya's list because, presumably, it actually includes all Lannisters (like it did all Frey's). She certainly WAS eyeballing Jaime at that dinner. Now, I don't think she killed Jaime there, but I think it's possible she will (or takes his face after the Mountain kills him) and then strangles Cersei wearing a Jaime mask - would be a cool reveal, too, as Cersei notices Jaime suddenly has two good hands.
(07-01-2016, 03:52 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: But that could be an interesting curveball....for all the talk about fate and religion, Jon saw "nothing"....not something vague or incomprehensible, but "nothing".
I could see Jaime dying, and Cersei being cold and smug thinking "witch didn't know everything, after all"....shortly before Arya kills her.
Or how about this....presumably, Jaime is on Arya's list because, presumably, it actually includes all Lannisters (like it did all Frey's). She certainly WAS eyeballing Jaime at that dinner. Now, I don't think she killed Jaime there, but I think it's possible she will (or takes his face after the Mountain kills him) and then strangles Cersei wearing a Jaime mask - would be a cool reveal, too, as Cersei notices Jaime suddenly has two good hands.
Now that would be interesting. I did notice her eyeballing Jaime hard before I realized it was her... but she didn't get an opportunity to strike at him there. she waited for the lannisters to leave before killing the freys off. (wonder how many freys she got and did she save lord walter for last)
Arya has been the ultimate wildcard of this story. she could really go anywhere. next Riverrun maybe?(infested with freys) or kingslanding are the next best bets though...
I don't think they will play the unite with her wolf angle as unlike the books they never made mention that I recall of an army of wolves lead by a huge she-*****.... or during the Brotherhood without banners time with arya. they made mention of a group of wolves and someone asked the type on 4 or 2 legs.... Nymeria in the books has been terrorizing the riverlands and the freys/lannisters there. (she had an army of 100s of wolves with her) But while I still hold hopes that she starts having wolf dreams when she returns to the riverlands in the books it seems they are trying to write the wolves out of the TV show for budget reasons.
Tryion could still make good on his promise.. "I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you are safe and happy, and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid" he had nothing to do with Jeoffry... But Ceresi has wanted nothing more than to sit the iron throne. And now she thinks the younger and more bueatiful Margery has been destroyd she might consider herself safe at the moment. (some more will probly next season showing her going mad with power thinking shes untouchable..) Then Danny tryion show up with dragons and a huge army....
But maybe not...
************
As far as the poster that thought danny wanted to destroy the iron throne she does not.. She was talking about the great wheel (the game of thrones basically) that she was gonna smash... basically all the great houses are spokes on the wheel each taking turns on toop
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