Vigil

[J24]

(12-03-2019, 02:18 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's weird that the last 3 games teams have stopped attacking our edge. Our defense is fairly good straight on.

Pratt vs Brown is a huge difference. One can actually play sideline the other can not.

[THE PISTONS]

I just wonder why they retained Brown this offseason. I guess they thought injuries slowed him last year?

[J24]

(12-03-2019, 02:58 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I just wonder why they retained Brown this offseason. I guess they thought injuries slowed him last year?

Probably plus I think they fell in love with the story. Hometown boy comes home plays great and changes the defense. Unfortunately none of that happen and infact one could argue he was the worst player on the roster.

[Joelist]

Brown was just snakebit here. He got hurt twice and when he was in the team decided weirdly to go to a 2 LB alignment and Brown is an inside thumper - as a 4-3 MIKE he is effective. As to Vigil yes having the faster Pratt out there is helping because he can commit more fully to his side of the field. Improved DL play is helping too because it is letting both LB shade a bit more to the sides.

Really we still desperately need a true blue chip inside LB and to start having 3 LB out there on most downs. Say Murray or Moses?

[WeezyBengal]

(12-02-2019, 09:00 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Vigil is a free agent after the season I believe. Interestingly, maybe his good play last year corresponded to Brown being hurt:

Since the Bengals released Preston Brown, Nick Vigil is PFF's 15th graded off-ball LB (weeks 11-13). 10th-best if you set the minimum snap count to ~100. Another solid game this week.

— Jake (@Jake_NFL) December 2, 2019

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How exactly does Brown leaving correlate to Nick Vigil playing better? 

Seriously? Was Brown somehow holding Vigil back? I dont really get it... 

Maybe Vigil is just playing better as of late or we havent been playing as quality of opponents.

[WeezyBengal]

(12-03-2019, 02:58 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I just wonder why they retained Brown this offseason. I guess they thought injuries slowed him last year?

Because they are a bad organization making bad decisions. Same reason they kept Bobby Hart. 

[J24]

(12-03-2019, 03:44 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: How exactly does Brown leaving correlate to Nick Vigil playing better? 

Seriously? Was Brown somehow holding Vigil back? I dont really get it... 

Maybe Vigil is just playing better as of late or we havent been playing as quality of opponents.

Brown wasn't capable of doing his job it effects everyone on the defense.

(12-03-2019, 03:45 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Because they are a bad organization making bad decisions. Same reason they kept Bobby Hart. 

True

[SadFaceBengal15]

(12-03-2019, 10:10 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Not sure what games you are watching, I see Vigil consistently make solo open field tackles. He could be better in coverage.... I'm not saying he is great, I'm saying he is not the trash people here try to make him out to be.

Hahahahaha him
Alone in space outside the tackles there a 5% chance he makes the tackle. That’s what I mean by space. He’s horrible. Arguably the worst starting linebacker in the league.

[fredtoast]

(12-03-2019, 06:00 PM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: Hahahahaha him
Alone in space outside the tackles there a 5% chance he makes the tackle.  That’s what I mean by space.  He’s horrible.  Arguably the worst starting linebacker in the league.

Link to troll stats please.

[Sled21]

(12-03-2019, 06:00 PM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: Hahahahaha him
Alone in space outside the tackles there a 5% chance he makes the tackle.  That’s what I mean by space.  He’s horrible.  Arguably the worst starting linebacker in the league.

This year he is ranked tied for 14th with 70 solo tackles, 4th with 27 assists, and tied for 12th with 1 forced fumble. Arguably NOT the worst starting linebacker in the league. Nice try though....
https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/nick-vigil/10721

[impactplaya]

Show me a 1 and 11 team and I will show you
Bad LBer play
Look at every team that has gone to the Super Bowl
What's a.common thread.....
Outstanding LBers on both sides of the ball.
Name any SB team...they had a Top 16 LB.

[THE PISTONS]

PFF does grade him 56.0 which is not good. It's still unacceptable.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(12-02-2019, 09:55 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Not so fast, my friend.  The Pratt kid is beginning to catch on to playing in the NFL.

Yep, he's looking better. Maybe Vigil's play is elevated now because he's not worrying so much about doing his job and the job of the guy next to him.  It can make a big difference when you only have to focus on your job.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(12-03-2019, 06:33 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Show me a 1 and 11 team and I will show you
Bad LBer play
Look at every team that has gone to the Super Bowl
What's a.common thread.....
Outstanding LBers on both sides of the ball.
Name any SB team...they had a Top 16 LB.

2011 Giants was one of the worst defenses of a SB Winning team?
Michael Boley, Mathias Kiwanuka, Chase Blackburn, Mark Herzlich?

Which one was top 16?

[SadFaceBengal15]

(12-03-2019, 06:05 PM)Sled21 Wrote: This year he is ranked tied for 14th with 70 solo tackles, 4th with 27 assists, and tied for 12th with 1 forced fumble. Arguably NOT the worst starting linebacker in the league. Nice try though....
https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/nick-vigil/10721

These stats do not equal a good or decent linebacker at all. Dudes on defense all game long and chasing all game long what u expect. What’s his pass defenses what’s his TFls forced fumbles INTs etc. u could 100% make a case against any linebacker starting in he nfl that vigil is worse. Anyone who thinks vigil should be one of our starting linebackers is contributing or supporting the problem here. Vigil
From the moment he was drafted was a role player back up and we’ve got him starting and like I said during the whooooole entire off season with him and brown and Pratt we are going to get torched on the ground. Hmmmmmmm.

[SadFaceBengal15]

(12-03-2019, 06:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Link to troll stats please.

Only cuz I can’t stand u.

http://www.coolturds.com/latestturds.html

[impactplaya]

(12-04-2019, 12:23 AM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: These stats do not equal a good or decent linebacker at all.  Dudes on defense all game long and chasing all game long what u expect.  What’s his pass defenses what’s his TFls forced fumbles INTs etc.  u could 100% make a case against any linebacker starting in he nfl that vigil is worse.  Anyone who thinks vigil should be one of our starting linebackers is contributing or supporting the problem here.  Vigil
From the moment he was drafted was a role player back up and we’ve got him starting and like I said during the whooooole entire off season with him and brown and Pratt we are going to get torched on the ground.  Hmmmmmmm.

The amount of tackles is fools gold 
How many tackles on 3rd down does Vigil have that led 
To a punt.?
How many tackles does he have that's been made BEFORE the 
1st down marker ?
Guys look.at his tackle total and all of a sudden think he's 
A capable starter 
Is there a stat for missed tackles or taking the wrong angle ?

[fredtoast]

(12-04-2019, 12:50 AM)impactplaya Wrote: The amount of tackles is fools gold 
How many tackles on 3rd down does Vigil have that led 
To a punt.?
How many tackles does he have that's been made BEFORE the 
1st down marker ?
Guys look.at his tackle total and all of a sudden think he's 
A capable starter 
Is there a stat for missed tackles or taking the wrong angle ?

There is a stat that weighs tackles based on down and distance.  For example tackling a ball carrier after a three yard gain would be considered a stop on first down, but not on third-and-one.  If you want the exact details it is on Footballoutsiders.com.  Last year Vigil's "stop percentage" on running plays ranked 30th among all LB.


They also keep track of "broken tackle percentage".  I don't know where Vigils 10.6% ranked last year, but it was much closer to top 20 (8.2%) than bottom 20 (21.2%).

You call Tackle stats "fools gold" but a defender has to shed a blocker and get to the ball carrier to get a tackles.  If you look at the league leaders they are often also the best players.

[Circleville Guy]

Like Piston said, he grades out at a 56. Is that really worth pointing out how good of a LB he is? People ***** and moan about our DT that grades out in the mid 70’s. Mediocre doesn’t equal good or decent. He’s probably closer to bad than he is good.

[fredtoast]

(12-04-2019, 03:47 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: Like Piston said, he grades out at a 56. Is that really worth pointing out how good of a LB he is? People ***** and moan about our DT that grades out in the mid 70’s. Mediocre doesn’t equal good or decent. He’s probably closer to bad than he is good.

PFF player ratings are not reliable. According to them Andy Dalton was better last year than in 2015.