OT - Surgery

[BengalFanInNJ]

Has anyone ever torn their bicep muscle and have surgery to repair it? I am facing this possibility now and am curious to hear from someone who has had experience. Appreciate any insight.

I apologize for posting this here, so please move it to an appropriate location if need be.

[BengalFanInNJ]

My bad. Just noticed the "Klotsch" forum. Moderator(s), please move this there. Thanks!

[THE PISTONS]

I didn't...but wishing you a speedy recovery.

[Murdock2420]

Wishing you a speedy recovery.

When I saw the thread title all I could think was, damn it which one of our OT's needs surgery now...

[hollodero]

(12-10-2019, 02:10 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Wishing you a speedy recovery.

When I saw the thread title all I could think was, damn it which one of our OT's needs surgery now...

Me too. I kind of hoped it was Bobby Hart.

Also, good recovery. I don't know anything bicep muscles. I am not even sure I possess something of that sort.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-10-2019, 12:27 AM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: Has anyone ever torn their bicep muscle and have surgery to repair it? I am facing this possibility now and am curious to hear from someone who has had experience. Appreciate any insight.

I apologize for posting this here, so please move it to an appropriate location if need be.

Is it the muscle itself, or the biceps tendon?  If it's the tendon, that can be reattached, and you'll likely get full use back.  If it's the muscle, it depends upon the degree of the tear.  Some heal on their own, some require surgery.  In my particular case, they discovered my biceps tendon was shredded, in an MRI to determine degree of tears in rotator cuff and labrum.  They reattached the biceps tendon under my pectoral muscle, and I regained full use of it.  I just don't do things like really heavy curls anymore, but at a body weight of 265, I still do pull ups (sometimes weighted) without any issue.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(12-10-2019, 12:27 AM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: Has anyone ever torn their bicep muscle and have surgery to repair it? I am facing this possibility now and am curious to hear from someone who has had experience. Appreciate any insight.

I apologize for posting this here, so please move it to an appropriate location if need be.

I’m gonna assume this is a proximal biceps tendon tear because if it was a distal tear then you would definitely have surgery to repair it rather than the possibility of a repair.

If you’re not a young athlete or have a physically demanding job they may not recommend surgery because 80% of your strength will be maintained by the brachioradialis. So without surgery you will have a permanent defect in the appearance of the bicep (Popeye bicep) and slightly less strength.

[fredtoast]

(12-10-2019, 09:02 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I’m gonna assume this is a proximal biceps tendon tear because if it was a distal tear then you would definitely have surgery to repair it rather than the possibility of a repair. 

I ruptured my bicep tendon at the elbow.  That is distal, isn't it?  My doctor said I could get by without surgery.  I'd just have my bicep balled up at the top of my arm all the time.  But I was young and very athletic at the time so I had it repaired.

They cut open the inside of my elbow to pull the tendon down and between the bones in my elbow.  They cut open the outside of my elbow to reattach the tendon to the bone just below my elbow.  After the surgery there was a calcium formation where the tendon was reattached to the bone.  It was between the two bones in the fore arm (radius and ulna) so I was unable to fully rotate my wrist.  It is a very minor inconvenience.  I just can't turn my left hand completely palm up (supinate).  I never even notice it.

I regained full strength in my arm.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(12-10-2019, 11:23 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I ruptured my bicep tendon at the elbow.  That is distal, isn't it?  My doctor said I could get by without surgery.  I'd just have my bicep balled up at the top of my arm all the time.  But I was young and very athletic at the time so I had it repaired.

They cut open the inside of my elbow to pull the tendon down and between the bones in my elbow.  They cut open the outside of my elbow to reattach the tendon to the bone just below my elbow.  After the surgery there was a calcium formation where the tendon was reattached to the bone.  It was between the two bones in the fore arm (radius and ulna) so I was unable to fully rotate my wrist.  It is a very minor inconvenience.  I just can't turn my left hand completely palm up (supinate).  I never even notice it.

I regained full strength in my arm.

 
Yeah, that's distal and I'm surprised at what you say your doctor told you. Here's the first reference I looked at for you . . .

https://www.bcmj.org/worksafebc/proximal-versus-distal-biceps-tendon-ruptures-when-refer

Quote:In summary, the vast majority of proximal biceps tendon ruptures tend to do well with conservative management. Patients who are young and active, unwilling to accept cosmetic deformity, or unable to tolerate mild fatigue cramping may be referred for a surgical opinion. Distal biceps tendon ruptures are treated with surgery in an urgent manner and should be referred to the local orthopaedic surgeon on call.

It may be since you had your injury as a kid they have learned distal bicep tendon ruptures do better with surgery rather than conservative treatment.

[*michaelsean*]

(12-10-2019, 08:00 AM)hollodero Wrote: Me too. I kind of hoped it was Bobby Hart.

Also, good recovery. I don't know anything bicep muscles. I am not even sure I possess something of that sort.

I think I just heard Arnie call you a girly man.

[BengalFanInNJ]

(12-10-2019, 08:10 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Is it the muscle itself, or the biceps tendon?  If it's the tendon, that can be reattached, and you'll likely get full use back.  If it's the muscle, it depends upon the degree of the tear.  Some heal on their own, some require surgery.  In my particular case, they discovered my biceps tendon was shredded, in an MRI to determine degree of tears in rotator cuff and labrum.  They reattached the biceps tendon under my pectoral muscle, and I regained full use of it.  I just don't do things like really heavy curls anymore, but at a body weight of 265, I still do pull ups (sometimes weighted) without any issue.

I think it's the tendon. Will find out tonight when I go for my MRI. I personally don't think it's a tear, but, I am preparing for the worse case scenario. So did you have you bicep repaired at the same time as your shoulder? Thanks for the information. 

[BengalFanInNJ]

(12-10-2019, 09:02 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I’m gonna assume this is a proximal biceps tendon tear because if it was a distal tear then you would definitely have surgery to repair it rather than the possibility of a repair.

If you’re not a young athlete or have a physically demanding job they may not recommend surgery because 80% of your strength will be maintained by the brachioradialis. So without surgery you will have a permanent defect in the appearance of the bicep (Popeye bicep) and slightly less strength.

If it's a tear, it's a distal one. Right by my elbow/forearm. Doctor said that if it's a tear he strongly recommends surgery due to my age since I'm not "THAT" old. 

Just embarrassing that I hurt it literally going against nothing but air. Didn't hit or touch a thing. Getting old sucks. 

[BengalFanInNJ]

(12-10-2019, 11:23 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I ruptured my bicep tendon at the elbow.  That is distal, isn't it?  My doctor said I could get by without surgery.  I'd just have my bicep balled up at the top of my arm all the time.  But I was young and very athletic at the time so I had it repaired.

They cut open the inside of my elbow to pull the tendon down and between the bones in my elbow.  They cut open the outside of my elbow to reattach the tendon to the bone just below my elbow.  After the surgery there was a calcium formation where the tendon was reattached to the bone.  It was between the two bones in the fore arm (radius and ulna) so I was unable to fully rotate my wrist.  It is a very minor inconvenience.  I just can't turn my left hand completely palm up (supinate).  I never even notice it.

I regained full strength in my arm.

Gotcha. Sounds like the same boat I am in (if it is a tear). Thanks for the info. 

[fredtoast]

(12-11-2019, 10:05 AM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: I think it's the tendon. Will find out tonight when I go for my MRI. I personally don't think it's a tear, but, I am preparing for the worse case scenario. So did you have you bicep repaired at the same time as your shoulder? Thanks for the information. 

If it is a complete tear you will know.  Your bicep will be bunched up at the top of your arm.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(12-11-2019, 11:10 AM)fredtoast Wrote: If it is a complete tear you will know.  Your bicep will be bunched up at the top of your arm.

Distal tears are usually easier to diagnosis on exam than proximal tears. But, if the patient is really obese you may not be able to palpate the biceps defect let alone even observe it. Also, pain can prevent you from palpating the tendon because the patient can’t tolerate the exam. And swelling can prevent you from observing the bicep defect.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(12-11-2019, 10:09 AM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: If it's a tear, it's a distal one. Right by my elbow/forearm. Doctor said that if it's a tear he strongly recommends surgery due to my age since I'm not "THAT" old. 

Just embarrassing that I hurt it literally going against nothing but air. Didn't hit or touch a thing. Getting old sucks. 

If it’s distal I’m 99.9% sure they will recommend surgery. If your MRI is tonight you most likely won’t get the results until you see the orthopedist at your next follow up.

I wouldn’t feel embarrassed because it is most likely degenerative from years of accumulated wear and tear. If your in your 50s, chances are you have a year in at least one labrum in your shoulders and don’t even know it.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-11-2019, 10:05 AM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: I think it's the tendon. Will find out tonight when I go for my MRI. I personally don't think it's a tear, but, I am preparing for the worse case scenario. So did you have you bicep repaired at the same time as your shoulder? Thanks for the information. 

Mine was the tendon at the top (proximal), was shredded and almost literally "holding on by a thread".  However, I had 3 other tears in my shoulder;  about a 1.25" full thickness tear in the rotator cuff, "slap" tear in the labrum, and my supraspinitis (sp) was completely detched.  So yes, the doc just went ahead and fixed everything while he was in there.  Also did copious amounts of grinding off bone spurs and cleanout of various "junk and debris".

Anyway, good luck with your MRI and prognosis. Hope it all turns out to be precautionary, and that you'll be alright without surgery.

[fredtoast]

(12-11-2019, 05:28 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I wouldn’t feel embarrassed because it is most likely degenerative from years of accumulated wear and tear. If your in your 50s, chances are you have a year in at least one labrum in your shoulders and don’t even know it.

(12-11-2019, 07:59 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Mine was the tendon at the top (proximal), was shredded and almost literally "holding on by a thread".  However, I had 3 other tears in my shoulder;  about a 1.25" full thickness tear in the rotator cuff, "slap" tear in the labrum, and my supraspinitis (sp) was completely detched.  So yes, the doc just went ahead and fixed everything while he was in there.  Also did copious amounts of grinding off bone spurs and cleanout of various "junk and debris".

Anyway, good luck with your MRI and prognosis.  Hope it all turns out to be precautionary, and that you'll be alright without surgery.

My shoulders are a mess.  I can't even throw overhand anymore.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-11-2019, 08:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: My shoulders are a mess.  I can't even throw overhand anymore.

Don't feel bad about it.  Even after the surgery, I'm afraid to "push the limits" and actually try to throw hard.  Heck, I won't even use that arm for Circus Dumbbell anymore.  But, as far as "normal activities" go, I feel great.  Full strength back, at least for bilateral movements, and since the kids are grown I really don't need to be able to throw hard anyway..

[BengalFanInNJ]

Thanks all. MRI went fine. Will hear the results tomorrow morning. Really not in the mood for surgery and even though it really hurt today, I don't think it's a tear.