BUNGLE 4 BURROW COMPLETE

[RiverRat13]

The Browns have traded back multiple times this decade to acquire more picks and are still terrible. Picks are great, but you have to turn them into players. Joe Burrow isn't a magic elixir for the Bengals, but neither is trading back.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

Carson Palmer came to Cincinnati surrounded by some pretty good offensive weapons and a decent offensive line -- and people also forget the Bengals' second round pick in 2003: Eric Steinbach. Carson also sat a year, watched Jon Kitna, and began playing in 2004 set up for success.

Andy Dalton was drafted by the Bengals in the second round after selecting AJ Green in the first round. He had a good supporting cast in place too and it wasn't surprising he had success from the get-go.

Now let's fast forward to 2020 and most pundits see the Bengals drafting another quarterback in the early rounds. The prevailing wisdom says it will be Joe Burrow but let's add, depending on the offensive system Cincinnati decides to run in 2020, Tua Tagovailoa or Jalen Hurts to the mix. It's also remotely possible the Bengals might look an existing free agent quarterback like Cam Newton or Eli Manning to come in for a year. Given Mike Brown's historical stubborn streak, I can also see him insisting Andy Dalton play out his final contract year; I don't WANT that to happen but I'm just putting all the possibilities on the table. Mikey Boy might even be looking at 2021 and "tank for Trevor" or "flop for Fields."

No matter who is under center for the Cincinnati Bengals in 2020 we need to realistically manage our expectations. Unless Zac Taylor and Brian Callahan all of a sudden get a clue on offense and improve the scheme and play calling, the new quarterback will be a bust. I DO NOT WANT THAT TO HAPPEN TO ANYONE! I hated watching Carson get beat up, it made me sick when Andy Dalton got flattened while the offensive linemen stood there watching, and what happened with Ryan Finley out there was a horror movie. Merely changing quarterbacks will not solve all these other issues, so if Joe Burrow becomes a Bengal and looks awful, do not blame him.

[Sled21]

You guys act like every loss was a blowout. We're not that far away.....

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

You have to fire Taylor as soon as the season is over. Can't trust him with Burrow....

Ryan Tannehill 3 Years Under Taylor
62.9% completion, 6.9 YPA, 1.83 TD per INT, 87.7 QB Rating

Ryan Tannehill 3 Years After Taylor
67.3% completion, 8.1 YPA, 2.07 TD per INT, 99.8 QB Rating

Combine that with Dalton having statistically his career worst season under Taylor.

...guy is in over his head at HC, and is a terrible OC. He's had two different players hold out on him this year, is 1-14, and is calling plays for the 32nd scoring offense in the NFL. Don't let Taylor taint Burrow and ruin the franchise's best chance to turn things around. Do what you should have done last offseason and hire Bieniemy, who has called a 1st overall/1st scoring offense in 2018 and a 4th overall/4th scoring offense in 2019. He clearly has shown he can put a QB (Mahomes) in a position to excel. Something Taylor has never shown as an OC on any level.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(12-23-2019, 10:46 AM)Sled21 Wrote: You guys act like every loss was a blowout. We're not that far away.....

We're light years away, I'm afraid.  Please don't let those close scores fool you.  It's the opposite of the right side rear view mirror on your car which says, "Objects may be closer than they appear."  Other than the first game against the Seahawks, the Bengals were never really "in" any of those close games.  Usually I'm among the more optimistic posters on the board but in 2019, not so much.

[Bengalitis]

Everyone relax, the Patriots or Raiders will trade for Andy.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(12-23-2019, 11:01 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: Everyone relax, the Patriots or Raiders will trade for Andy.

I was thinking Carolina too; maybe even Dallas. 

[bengaloo]

We went from 2-14 to 8-8 in the early 2000s. Then from 4-12 to 9-7 in 2010/2011 so turnarounds can happen. We were in some games this season and shouldve won a few more. Our OL improved the second Glenn got back just not enough. We will have Williams next year and another draft and offseason to plug holes. It shouldnt take much to replace most of our OLmen with better players considering we have guys that would not even be in the NFL if it werent for us.

We saw the subtraction of Preston Brown instantly make our defense better as well. We need to weed out the players who arent good enough and replace them with NFL caliber guys and we can in fact be a really good team again.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(12-23-2019, 10:59 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You have to fire Taylor as soon as the season is over. Can't trust him with Burrow....

Ryan Tannehill 3 Years Under Taylor
62.9% completion, 6.9 YPA, 1.83 TD per INT, 87.7 QB Rating

Ryan Tannehill 3 Years After Taylor
67.3% completion, 8.1 YPA, 2.07 TD per INT, 99.8 QB Rating

Combine that with Dalton having statistically his career worst season under Taylor.

...guy is in over his head at HC, and is a terrible OC. He's had two different players hold out on him this year, is 1-14, and is calling plays for the 32nd scoring offense in the NFL. Don't let Taylor taint Burrow and ruin the franchise's best chance to turn things around. Do what you should have done last offseason and hire Bieniemy, who has called a 1st overall/1st scoring offense in 2018 and a 4th overall/4th scoring offense in 2019. He clearly has shown he can put a QB (Mahomes) in a position to excel. Something Taylor has never shown as an OC on any level.

WHAT YOU SAID!

I don't trust Zac Taylor or Brian Callahan with ANY quarterback the Bengals decide to use in 2020.  I don't care if it's Tua Tagovailoa, Joe Burrow, Cam Newton, Eli Manning, Jalen Hurts, Ryan Finley, or even Andy Dalton; the Bengals' offensive staff needs the heave-ho.  What I saw in 2019 was inept, incompetent, uncoordinated, and oh so predictable.

[OswaldsLegacy]

(12-23-2019, 01:54 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Literally no one thinks that. You’re a straight up liar. No one here thinks Mike Brown isn’t a problem. No one here thinks Marvin was a great coach being held back by a bad QB. No one here thinks our OL has been great the past few years. No one here thinks our LBers have been good the last few years. No one here thinks Taylor is a good player caller, etc, etc, etc .

Just stop with your bs.

You do.... just go back and read your post.  You think bringing Joe Burrow will fix EVERYTHING.

Otherwise you wouldn't have been so hard on Dalton.  You would be like some of us and not want us to take Burrow with the 1st pick, you would have been disgusted about the way Dalton was treated and has been treated, and you would realize that his treatment hurts our ability to fix the real problems.  Mainly OLine.  The way he was treated means we have to take Burrow.

We could draft Thomas and Bredeson (possibly Kindley) and Biadasz this year and dip into FA for LBer and Secondary help (while changing the DC and scheme). 

That fixes most of the issues.  Makes a better team.

Now we have to hope and pray that Burrow is in fact what he is hyped up to be.  Hell we have to hope he is half of what he is being hyped to be.  We still may get Bredeson (or Kindley) in the 2nd, we could grab Biadasz and even dip into FA for the LBer and Secondary help.  However if Joe Blows and is Akili Smith 2.0 or just a straight up bust.  Then our team will fail, but you won't be on here admitting how wrong you were.  Instead you will fall back on blaming Taylor and Brown. 

As I said, as much blame that they get, they also aren't the ones on the field.  Joe will be the one on the field.

[masonbengals fan]

So lets get this straight. If a person wants Burrow as the pick then they also think he will cure all ?
Literally no one I have talked with thinks this, so please just stop.

[OswaldsLegacy]

(12-23-2019, 10:34 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Carson Palmer came to Cincinnati surrounded by some pretty good offensive weapons and a decent offensive line -- and people also forget the Bengals' second round pick in 2003:  Eric Steinbach.  Carson also sat a year, watched Jon Kitna, and began playing in 2004 set up for success.

Andy Dalton was drafted by the Bengals in the second round after selecting AJ Green in the first round.  He had a good supporting cast in place too and it wasn't surprising he had success from the get-go.

Now let's fast forward to 2020 and most pundits see the Bengals drafting another quarterback in the early rounds.  The prevailing wisdom says it will be Joe Burrow but let's add, depending on the offensive system Cincinnati decides to run in 2020, Tua Tagovailoa or Jalen Hurts to the mix.  It's also remotely possible the Bengals might look an existing free agent quarterback like Cam Newton or Eli Manning to come in for a year.  Given Mike Brown's historical stubborn streak, I can also see him insisting Andy Dalton play out his final contract year; I don't WANT that to happen but I'm just putting all the possibilities on the table.  Mikey Boy might even be looking at 2021 and "tank for Trevor" or "flop for Fields."

No matter who is under center for the Cincinnati Bengals in 2020 we need to realistically manage our expectations.  Unless Zac Taylor and Brian Callahan all of a sudden get a clue on offense and improve the scheme and play calling, the new quarterback will be a bust.  I DO NOT WANT THAT TO HAPPEN TO ANYONE!  I hated watching Carson get beat up, it made me sick when Andy Dalton got flattened while the offensive linemen stood there watching, and what happened with Ryan Finley out there was a horror movie.  Merely changing quarterbacks will not solve all these other issues, so if Joe Burrow becomes a Bengal and looks awful, do not blame him.

To be honest, it isn't Joe Burrow's fault.  I won't be.  Just like it isn't Dalton's fault.  Me calling him Blowing Joe is more to highlight what will happen in a short time on this board.

Dalton haters, that have been salivating for Burrow will have to either defend him (using the same tactics they like to call us Dalton Fanboys for) or they will turn on him the same way they turned on Dalton.

Either they were impressed with Dalton in his 2nd or 3rd season or they never liked him to begin with.  If it is the latter then their bashing of him and support of Burrow will lead many to go after Burrow as a way of going after those posters.  Turn about being fair play and all.

[OswaldsLegacy]

(12-23-2019, 11:52 AM)masonbengals fan Wrote: So lets get this straight. If a person wants Burrow as the pick then they also think he will cure all ?
Literally no one I have talked with thinks this, so please just stop.

Yeah they do.  You stop.  Go back and read the post. 

Every Dalton bashing post just screams that Dalton was the problem.

It isn't a matter of wanting Burrow now.  It is now a matter of need.

Even before the benching, their were posters hoping we "Tank for Tua" or "Blow for Joe".

If they didn't think he was a cure all, they would have been calling for real fixes to the team instead of calling for the shiny QB that had 1 good year on a decent team.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(12-23-2019, 11:52 AM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: To be honest, it isn't Joe Burrow's fault.  I won't be.  Just like it isn't Dalton's fault.  Me calling him Blowing Joe is more to highlight what will happen in a short time on this board.

Dalton haters, that have been salivating for Burrow will have to either defend him (using the same tactics they like to call us Dalton Fanboys for) or they will turn on him the same way they turned on Dalton.

Either they were impressed with Dalton in his 2nd or 3rd season or they never liked him to begin with.  If it is the latter then their bashing of him and support of Burrow will lead many to go after Burrow as a way of going after those posters.  Turn about being fair play and all.

With all my heart I want Joe Burrow to succeed.  I was thinking of a positive nickname like "Jungle Joe Burrow" because I desperately want every player on the Bengals' roster to achieve both personal and team greatness. 

The more I think about it the more I understand the Bengals did Andy Dalton wrong; maybe it wasn't even purposeful.  Here he is, a better than average quarterback who led the Bengals to five straight playoff appearances, and after the 2015 season the Front Office got stupid and started letting key players go.  Between 2015 and the present day the Bengals parted with Kevin Zeitler, Andrew Whitworth, Marvin Jones, Mohamed Sanu, Benjarvus Green-Ellis, and Jeremy Hill.  They were not replaced with equivalent quality players other than Joe Mixon.  Andy, once surrounded by playmakers, had to make do with less and if we're being honest that was too much of an ask.

[masonbengals fan]

Just because most of those things are true doesn't mean it isn't time to move on.

[JSR18]

(12-23-2019, 03:00 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Sadly, there is about a 50/50 chance of him being a bust

Here are the all the QBs taken in the first round since 2010

I bolded the ones that really have just not done anything to help their team improve. Giving the benefit of the doubt to a few guys like Tannehil since he has shown life in Tennessee, and Bridgewater looks good when healthy. The new class is on a yet to be decided slate.


Andrew Luck - Overall #1

Sam Bradford - Overall #1

Jameis Winston - Overall #1 (Yeah...great stats but all the INTs and Tampa sucks still)

Cam Newton - Overall #1

Jared Goff - Overall #1

Baker Mayfield - Overall #1 (Another year another sub .500 finish)

Kyler Murray - Overall #1

Carson Wentz - Overall #2

RG3 - Overall #2 

Marcus Mariota - Overall #2

Mitchell Trubisky - Overall #2 

Blake Bortles - Overall #3

Sam Darnold - Overall #3

Daniel Jones - Overall #6

Josh Allen - Overall #7

Jake Locker - Overall #8

Ryan Tannehill - Overall #8 (And a great example of what happens to a good QB on a disaster of a team, look at him now with Tenn)

Blaine Gabbert - Overall #10

Josh Rosen - Overall #10

Patrick Mahomes - Overall #10

Deshaun Watson - Overall #12

Christian Ponder - Overall #12

Dwayne Haskins - Overall #15

E.J. Manuel - Overall #16

Johnny Manziel - Overall #22

Brandon Weeden - Overall #22

Tim TeBow - Overall #25

Paxton Lynch - Overall #26

Lamar Jackson - Overall ##32

Teddy Bridgewater - Overall #32




 I just feel like as bad as this team has been recently with first round picks, (Jonah (hurt), Price (not good), John Ross (crap), Jackson III (kinda regressing but I still have hope), Cedric...just no,) that gamble on a one year wonder really is just too big of a gamble. 

They miss on this pick and it screws them for years.

                 Agree 150%... 

[*bfine32*]

Folks mentioning all these teams that will trade for Andy are 2 funny.

Dude will be entering his 10th year, coming off a year where he finished dead last in passer rating, a year after finishing 26th, and offers nothing with his legs. Dude might be asked to hold a clipboard for a young kid and I hope it's here (at a reduced salary).

[OswaldsLegacy]

(12-23-2019, 12:11 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: With all my heart I want Joe Burrow to succeed.  I was thinking of a positive nickname like "Jungle Joe Burrow" because I desperately want every player on the Bengals' roster to achieve both personal and team greatness. 

The more I think about it the more I understand the Bengals did Andy Dalton wrong; maybe it wasn't even purposeful.  Here he is, a better than average quarterback who led the Bengals to five straight playoff appearances, and after the 2015 season the Front Office got stupid and started letting key players go.  Between 2015 and the present day the Bengals parted with Kevin Zeitler, Andrew Whitworth, Marvin Jones, Mohamed Sanu, Benjarvus Green-Ellis, and Jeremy Hill.  They were not replaced with equivalent quality players other than Joe Mixon.  Andy, once surrounded by playmakers, had to make do with less and if we're being honest that was too much of an ask.

I don't think he needs a nickname.  Just let him be Joe Burrow.

Again, the "Blowing" Joe is more of a play on the "Blow for Joe" and it will be what he is called.  Especially after his first INT and bad game.  This title is Bungle 4 Burrow.  I have said I could call him "Bungling" Joe if that makes people happy.

I get it, being a Bengals fan means you want our players to win.  I do too.  However the more I see on this board from the posters and fans, I see a lot of them as insufferable and entitled.

To me, even with the losses the past 2 seasons, Dalton has done great and produced better than expectations.  As you said these players all left without any real replacement.  Add on that Eifert has been injured a LOT and Green even has missed significant time, it is too much to ask of any QB.

I don't even have to guess what Joe Burrow would do under these same conditions.  I already know.  Like Dalton, he won't be respected, he will instead be attacked.  The only way that wouldn't happen is if he wins a playoff game.  Unfortunately, he may never even make the postseason.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-22-2019, 08:06 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I guess being sick doesn’t count as a real excuse. It’s hard to keep track of all the ones you guys use for Andy. I forget which ones are allowed.

Playing Devil's advocate here....but Dalton didn't get a pass when he was sick enough to be getting fluids via I.V. before a game in Tampa where he played bad.....and we WON.

[OswaldsLegacy]

(12-23-2019, 12:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Folks mentioning all these teams that will trade for Andy are 2 funny.

Dude will be entering his 10th year, coming off a year where he finished dead last in passer rating, a year after finishing 26th, and offers nothing with his legs. Dude might be asked to hold a clipboard for a young kid and I hope it's here (at a reduced salary).

Normally I love your post... but this isn't one of your best.  You are blaming his stats on him and not the scheme, the lack of production in the run game and no OLine?  Really.  I know you are smarter than this.

I don't see Dalton here next year, I wouldn't blame him for demanding to be released. Why stay in a place that obviously doesn't want him to be here?