Andy Dalton: Anyone that wanted a loss today is not a real fan

[KansasBengal]

Fans want a win. I never want this team to lose. We’ve lost a ton this year so we’ll be rewarded with a new quarterback that I hope leads us to a championship. I like all the wins Andy led the Bengals to and I’m disappointed about the losses he contributed to. Overall I’ve been happy—met him, he’s been nice to my kid and I will always hope he succeeds but we all know it’s gonna be over here—that’s sports. It would have been super Bengals-like to win out the last two weeks and miss the #1 pick but let’s be real—that’s not a sure-fire way to the super bowl—we know that. As a sports fan, I live game-to-game. I really hoped they’d pull it out today but I’m not crushed that they didn’t because there’s potentially a silver lining. But make no mistake about it, I want them to win every week and three times next week because it’s the browns.

[samhain]

Meh, Andy was in a no-win situation really. Most of the fanbase has moved on from the idea of him being quarterback. That's gotta be tough for a guy to look back on his time here and see fans rooting for him to lose. He's seen the best and worst of what it is to be a quarterback for a Mike Brown run football team. He wasn't always what we wanted, but it's silly to pretend he didn't do a lot for the franchise.

I'm certainly not going to get mad at him for feeling the way he did after today's game. He played his ass off, really. I hope he comes out next Sunday and throws for 350 and 4TDs and (possibly) plays his last game in stripes as a winner with the few fans that show up supporting him.

[Ravage]

(12-23-2019, 12:28 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: You try to put Dalton in the same category as HOF QB's. BTW Palmer actually won one!! Your turn.

No, as I said, right there in the text that you yourself quoted, I don't think Dalton's a great QB. So clearly I'm not "putting him in the same category as HOF QB's" at least not in the context of his overall body of work. In regards to them all having 11 loss seasons on their resumes? Then yeah, Dalton absolutely 100% has that in common with the HOF QB's and former Bengals starters that I listed, that's just an indisputable fact whether you like it or not.

I specifically used HOF QB's (and our other 3 "successful" long-time starters) to definitively illustrate the fact that your original premise (that QB's that lose 11 games in a season aren't really QB's) was flawed. You see...if I came out and said "Well what about Matt Stafford? He's an OK QB and has lost more than 11 games in a season" that doesn't really hammer home the point now, does it? If anything, all that'd do would be to open things up to a debate over the overall merits of Matt Stafford as a QB. By using HOF players who no one in their right mind would suggest wasn't good at playing their position, I demonstrated that your original position was fundamentally flawed. You see, that's how forming a counter-argument works. At no point was I saying Dalton was a HOF caliber QB, I was saying that HOF QB's have had 11 loss seasons and thus saying that "any QB that loses 11 games in a season isn't really a QB" is a stupid statement to make.

And re: Palmer? Yes, he did win one...in his 13th season as I noted previously. Since in the context of your previous post that Dalton hadn't won any in 9 years, I felt it important to point out that it took Palmer 3 teams and 13 years before he finally won a playoff game himself. 

But, since you also seem to think that simply winning a playoff game is also an indicator of if someone's a decent QB or not; I can name one HOF QB, who never so much as played in a single playoff game in their entire career, and another that never won one. Sonny Jurgensen never played in a playoff game. Now sure, his last year as a starter was the first year that the divisional rounds even existed, but the playoffs existed and he never led the Eagles or Washington to the playoffs or a championship once. And Y.A. Tittle never won a playoff game in his career, he was 0-5. If, by your flawed analytical system, you're somehow suggesting that T.J. Yates, Matt Schaub or even Bernie Kosar are better QB's than those two because they've won a playoff game, then you're nuts. Also, for a more contemporary example, the aforementioned Matt Stafford has both lost 11 or more games in a season (12 in 2012) and never won a playoff game (0-3) in his 11 year career and he's, as I said before, a solid QB.

My initial post, and subsequent replies to you, have never been about Dalton. You're the one fixated on Dalton, not me. It was purely about pointing out the massive flaws in your now two, completely arbitrary, standards for assessing the capabilities of a QB.

You're up.

[BengalsBong]

(12-22-2019, 08:25 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Why should we show class? He’s not.

Yes Andy called the fans out so he should expect a response from the fans.

[BengalYankee]

(12-22-2019, 08:55 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: He did more in less time than Boomer and Kenny.

Td's e owns. He is 2nd in yards with 6 less years than Kenny, but more than Boomer. He has a better Int. % by far than Kenny and Boomer and also fumbled less. I believe he also leads Bengals QB's in rushing Td's, but may be wrong.

To call him a bum because he plays to win is beyond classless.

He is leaving, he did not quit like Palmer an far surpassed Palmer's numbers in the same era. Yet, many still love CP and now trash the better QB record wise and numbers wise Dalton. Wish him well, he is a class act and according to Finley, he helped the rookie when he did not have to.

I wish Dalton and his wife a team that will appreciate his value and respect him as a human being.

Umm, Boomer and Kenny won playoff games. Heck, won AFC Championships. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-23-2019, 05:33 AM)BengalYankee Wrote: Umm, Boomer and Kenny won playoff games. Heck, won AFC Championships. 

And MVP’s. But hey, Dalton was in the “discussion” for like 2 whole months that one time!

[BengalYankee]

(12-22-2019, 09:40 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: What was Marvin Lewis' record in prime-time without Andy? I know he was 0-3 in the playoffs with other QB's (all of which played terribly).

Hint: the prime-time record was also abysmal, I just don't feel like looking it up for the 817th time.

1. Marvin Lewis record without Andy was never 1-15. [See next week].

2. Marvin Lewis record without Andy included Division Champions twice sweeping the Steelers in the process. Has Andy ever swept the Steelers?

3. Marvin Lewis without Andy has won a Superbowl ring with the Ravens.

4. Marvin Lewis has a better chance in becoming a HOF member. [I said a better chance, lol].

5. Marvin Lewis record with Palmer had a better prime-time record then with Andy in prime-time.  Andy had one primetime game this year against the substitute QB of the Steelers and got smoked.

6. Marvin Lewis was named Coach of the year in 2010. Was Andy player of the year any year? 

[HuDey]

Yeah, whatever.

Andy is entitled to his opinions but good luck getting me to give a flying rats ass what he says. Bengals ownership has put real Bengals fans in a position where having the first overall pick looks like an oasis in this lost season of craptacular football. The team has played like total garbage all season and now you want to pull my fan card because having the first pick will bring me more joy and hope for the future than a couple of meaningless wins after our fate has long been decided?

At this point in my fandom I have more respect for guys who leave this team or get run off for being malcontents than I do for guys who happily accept the results of Mike Brown's business practices.

[Catmandude123]

(12-22-2019, 11:28 PM)Ravage Wrote: That's changing the argument, so I'll take that as you just angrily admitting your initial premise was laughably flawed. 

I never said I thought Dalton was a great QB, I just pointed out that using 11 losses in a season as a measuring stick for if a QB is competent or not is off base. That's partially why I included Palmer on the list, b/c he sure wasn't great either. Speaking of Palmer though, he went 13 years, 12 actually playing (rookie year) before winning his one and only playoff game in 2015. So...your turn?

My bad , I guess you are for waiting four more years on Dalton to make every thing fair. Dalton is not the answer dude. As much as you and the rest of the Dalton Gang cry, he is done here. Non Dalton Gangers are not rejoicing his demise we are looking forward to the possibility that something different will happen next year. So your golden boy Andy can berate us all he wants because we have had enough of mediocrity. If Burrow doesn't work out  we will just have to change again. 

[Goalpost]

So I don't think if I were a player I would call out fans while having a 1-14 record.

[Catmandude123]

(12-22-2019, 09:30 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Er...the owner/GM who hasn't won a playoff game in 30 years isn't to blame for what now?  

The same GM who put together a team that went to the POs five years straight ( I know, that is your line when defending Dalton)? He should have grabbed his stapler and some paperclips and stapled the ball in Dalton's hand so he wouldn't cough up the ball so much. The team and Andy in particular were responsible for crapping the bed in those losses.

[Devils Advocate]

Players don’t care about one player next year that hasn’t even played a down at the NFL level. Any athlete at any level feels exactly the same. They only want to win now. So I don’t blame players for saying these things.

Management? Now that’s a different story. Any good business model includes a futures forecast. There is absolutely nothing to gain in losing the top pick. Especially when you take into account the current player agreement and a looming restructure. If ever there was a time to get a rookie franchise QB, it’s now at a good price. In a few short years, the price goes up on rookie contracts.

What on earth is (management) thinking in trying to win 1 or 2 meaningless games? Of course, I hope they beat the Browns 70-0 because I would never consider that game meaningless ... but it is.

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-22-2019, 07:46 PM)IcoHolic Wrote: In the press conference, Andy said that anyone wanting a loss today wasn't a real fan.

Obviously he's going through a lot of stuff, and I'm not at all upset by what he said. However, do you agree? I don't. Being a treadmill team is the worst place to be. I'm a season ticket holder in Toronto and flew across the pond to watch the Rams game, I'm not sure how I wouldn't qualify as a "real" fan.

I don't agree, but that is his opinion and he is entitled to it.  

That being said, I wonder if the best LT prospect in the history of the NFL was the consensus #1 overall pick and he wasn't being replaced if his opinion would be different.

The whole "real fan" debate is stupid.  I had a lot of friends that were season ticket holders (as was I for 20 years) that referred to themselves as the real fans because they are at the games.  I never thought one's fandom should be categorized by the money they spent.  And for a fan to root against his/her team this weekend was in the long-term benefit of the team.

I have to admit, though.  I was cussing up a storm when they scored 23 points in ONE QUARTER, when they had only scored 23 points in ONE GAME all season.  I was sure Bengal logic, luck, karma, whatever was going to screw them out of the first pick. 

[Sled21]

It was very hard for me to watch this game, as it is the 1st time since the creation of the team I didn't want them to win.

[Bengalpool]

Please... Stop...

Do any of you who defend Dalton as a player (GREAT GUY, LOVE HIM!) actually believe that he cares where we pick in the draft? He spitefully lit a fire under his own ass in the 4th quarter to do what he could to win this game so we couldn't pick #1. It's not about winning to him THIS season, it's about being spiteful on his way out the door that hit him the day he was benched for rYaN fInLeY. Prove me wrong. Where was this fire and passion to win before? Where was that fire in the post season where he played like complete garbage?

As a quarter back of an NFL franchise, it is your responsibility to get your offense moving and MOTIVATED! Let's hear it, "hE cAn'T mAkE rEcEiVeRs cAtCh BaLlS!!"... Probably because their QB is inaccurate. They sure as hell looked fine in the 4th quarter didn't they? Andy can succeed in the right system. That system is not here. Bye. Thanks for the great games, but you're average without the best supporting staff and cast possible.

Not real fans? Pfftttt. PLEASE. STOP. Us "not so real fans" have been dealing with mediocrity and complete crap teams for WAY too long. We are TIRED OF IT. If MB won't help us win by being active in FA, then we need to be able to depend on a REAL QB. And our only hope of that right now is Burrow which we needed #1OA to get him (we had to root to lose in a lost season, this is common sense). And yes, I love Chase Young and I'd jump for joy if we took him. But the Bengals will not go that route. I'll be just as happy to see what we get in Burrow. It's our best chance right now. It's not like our FO knows how to build around an average QB to make them look better than what they are. 2015 was luck of previous drafts and those players aren't here now. Surprise surprise.

We literally need a Peyton Manning to turn our franchise around. And I am in NO WAY saying Burrow is Manning. But we don't know yet. 50/50 like someone else said that he is the answer for us. Besides, someone like Young would go somewhere else after his rookie contact is up. If Burrow is successful he's more likely to sign an extension.

And one last thing I won't ramble on about. Coaching. Burrow has great coaching. He probably won't get that here.. In fact, it's likely that he won't with this staff. He's still our best hope to turn things around. And one can only hope we improve the o-line somehow this off season.

[BengalsRocker]

(12-23-2019, 01:28 AM)KansasBengal Wrote: Fans want a win. I never want this team to lose. We’ve lost a ton this year so we’ll be rewarded with a new quarterback that I hope leads us to a championship. I like all the wins Andy led the Bengals to and I’m disappointed about the losses he contributed to. Overall I’ve been happy—met him, he’s been nice to my kid and I will always hope he succeeds but we all know it’s gonna be over here—that’s sports. It would have been super Bengals-like to win out the last two weeks and miss the #1 pick but let’s be real—that’s not a sure-fire way to the super bowl—we know that. As a sports fan, I live game-to-game. I really hoped they’d pull it out today but I’m not crushed that they didn’t because there’s potentially a silver lining. But make no mistake about it, I want them to win every week and three times next week because it’s the browns.

Yeah.

As much as most fans wanted them to lose to Miami... you can sure as shit bet the majority want to see this exact same team pound the Browns into submission.

That would in fact make me VERY happy!

The outlier fans that do not are the ones who are fearful that Dalton beating the Stains might ensure that he returns next season.

Oh well.  Thems just facts.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-22-2019, 10:16 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: Dalton's just upset he's not going to be our qb anymore after this year is over and he's taking his cheap shots at us. Quite frankly he should have been sent packing 5 years ago after 4 horrible playoff performances where he played like Ryan Leaf and we lost every one of them.

Not to mention choking in the big games during prime time and against the Steelers in big games during the regular season.

I hope we never have to see that guy ever again, not even to visit the stadium as a former player, just leave and never come back. We've seen enough of that choke artist and his time with the Bengals is finished. Good riddance to that choker.

He tried his hardest to win a meaningless game so we wouldn't get the number one pick and he could stick it to us while hes leaving out the door.

I always knew he was a fraud and he went to those charity events just for show so he could take some photo ops while shaking peoples hands and leave 5 minutes later.

He did it so he could suck hole to upper management and coaches and they would let him keep his job as a starter and pay him 17 million a year to be the equivalent of Fitzpatrick during the year and Leaf in the playoffs.

I've been a fan for 40 years since I was 5 years old and I'm 1000 times more of a Bengals fan than Dalton will ever be. He's just playing for the Bengals for the money while us hardcore fans don't get paid anything to be a fan of this sorry ass franchise.

A fraud with his charity work? Surely you jest...... that's low, even for you.

[*pally*]

I get where Dalton is coming from. It is tough to be on the receiving end of fans wishing you would lose especially when it means drafting your replacement.
But, the "real" fans have put up with DECADES of awful mgmt, bad and/or underachieving teams, bad stadium experiences, the worst stadium deal in professional sports, star player defections, bad drafts, etc. In a monumentally bad year, the fans just once, wanted something positive to come from the neverending losing and that is the chance to draft a potential NFL star. We want the team to win for the next 10 years not just one game in an already meaningless season

[Luvnit2]

I had a friend at the game yesterday. I now know why AD made that comment, we had fans booing when we scored the TD to go down 2 points and then boo again and got rowdy against the team when they tied it up.

They were yelling way to blow our 1st pick and directly yelling at AD.

That is why AD made those comments, he had good reason and it was directed at those fans.

Everyone makes everything about AD, but our QB was not the only one fired up and trying to win, you see no way we comeback from down 23 points in the 4th quarter if only one players was playing to win. So, kudos to ZT for getting his team to not quit when they could have a long time ago.

[XenoMorph]

(12-22-2019, 07:46 PM)IcoHolic Wrote: In the press conference, Andy said that anyone wanting a loss today wasn't a real fan.

Obviously he's going through a lot of stuff, and I'm not at all upset by what he said. However, do you agree? I don't. Being a treadmill team is the worst place to be. I'm a season ticket holder in Toronto and flew across the pond to watch the Rams game, I'm not sure how I wouldn't qualify as a "real" fan.

damn they balled out that 4th qtr