Bengals have had 3 #1 overall picks since inception

[Benton]

I wouldn't be shocked if we take a tackle in the first, take a shot on a second or third round qb and figure we've always got Dalton if that doesn't pan out in camp.

[Daddy-O]

(12-23-2019, 03:27 PM)bambino5130 Wrote: Are the Bengals one player away from being great again?

Who is the best player available in the draft?

The Bengals rank at the league bottom in every defensive statistic in the league.

"We don't need ends.."  lmao  that is a a good one.

I think what the OP is saying is ends aren't the defenses problem.  We have Dunlap and Hubbard who are more than adequate.

You don't take another end with the number 1 pick if there is a franchise QB available.  This talk of Chase Young is just silly and likely brought about by the OSU homers.  No team would do that unless they had just previously taken a Peyton Manning or Patrick Mahomes within the previous couple of years. 

[Deanlj69]

(12-24-2019, 12:42 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Wilkinson, Carter, and Palmers Bengals careers all ended badly.

Wilkinson and Carter are widely considered busts.

Palmer basically said that the current management who still runs the team is inept and forced his way out.

We have to take Burrow...but there's some risk in it. But, it's the right pick. But, our offensive system is bad. We had more talent this year than our production.

I don’t think it’s fair to call Carter a bust. I always think of him as a what if. The bust label is to widely thrown around. If not for injury he might have been a hall of famer. Indications prior to injury was he could do it all and wowed the team and other gms during camp.

In college he had no weaknesses.

Although if he hadn’t gotten hurt we probably don’t draft Corey Dillon the next year in the 2nd round.

[fredtoast]

(12-24-2019, 02:08 PM)Deanlj69 Wrote: I don’t think it’s fair to call Carter a bust. I always think of him as a what if. The bust label is to widely thrown around. If not for injury he might have been a hall of famer. Indications prior to injury was he could do it all and wowed the team and other gms during camp.

In college he had no weaknesses.

Although if he hadn’t gotten hurt we probably don’t draft Corey Dillon the next year in the 2nd round.

Ki Jana Carter was one of the greatest college RBs I ever saw.  He had size, speed, balance, and vision.  His final season at Penn Sate he averaged 140 rushing yards per game and 7.8 per carry.  He averaged 7.2 for his career and had two 1000+ yard seasons.

[grampahol]

(12-24-2019, 01:11 AM)whodeyfan1 Wrote: I hope the people in this thread saying he’s overrated and a “system QB” have actually watched him and not just making generic comments. If you have watched him, I doubt you’d be saying that. His accuracy is unlike any other college QB ever. How is that a “system QB?” His ability to scramble when the pocket breaks down and he runs for 15 yards has nothing to do with the offensive scheme. It’s 100% JB improvising and making something happen.

I’m not saying he will be a HOFer before he even enters the NFL. But there really isn’t anything else you could expect in a QB prospect. These people saying he has a weak arm are just reciting what they have heard pundits say on TV.

How DARE you even suggest the pundits could ever be wrong about anything. Why, every school kid endeavors to be a pundit. When asked by teachers what they want to be when they grow up overwhelmingly  9 out of 10 kids always say, "Pundit"! Of course I wanted to be a cowboy, but that was back when cowboys always won over injuns..   Sad to admit it, but there was a point when I wanted to be a garbage truck. I kind of liked the dudes that picked up our trash on Monday mornings.. I was a bit of a strange child..I still am. So sue me..

[fredtoast]

Several years ago I read a story by Hobson about the Bengal trading up in '95 to #1 in 1995. Geoff claimed that the Bengals would have taken DE Kevin Carter (All-Pro. 104 career sacks. Led league with 17 in '99) at 5 and RB Curtis Martin (Hall of Fame) at 36 if they had not traded them to get Ki-Jana.

So maybe that is why Mike Brown will never trade up again.

[fredtoast]

(12-24-2019, 09:09 AM)Benton Wrote: I wouldn't be shocked if we take a tackle in the first, take a shot on a second or third round qb and figure we've always got Dalton if that doesn't pan out in camp.

With the first pick of the second round we won't have to give up much to jump into the bottom of the first.  The big bonus is that we get an extra season of control in the rookie contract.

BTW every year the player draft rankings change dramatically AFTER the college season is over.  At this point in 08 Andre Smith was the consensus number one overall pick in the draft.  In '13 Teddy Bridgewater was a top 5 pick.  In 17 Josh Allen was a late-first, early-second round pick.  So was Carson Wentz in 15. The year Ryan Leaf challenged Peyton Manning for number one overall he came from way back at the end of the season.

There is no telling how all these guys shake out and who will be available late in the first round.

[fredtoast]

Here is an interesting look at taking a QB #1 overall.  


http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Perspective-on-the-value-of-a-top-5-pick


I went back almost two decades to '00 and excluded the '19 draft because it is way too early to judge those picks.  In the 19 years from '00 to '18 there was a QB taken number one 12 times.  Two times it is clear the best QB in the draft went number one (Palmer 05, Stafford 09).  A few more could be argued about (Winstead or Mariota 15, Goff or Prescott 16, Vince Young or Jay Cutler 06), but it is clear that it is rare to get the best QB in the draft at #1.  

Over the same period there have been a total of 23 QBs taken in the top 5 of the draft but the numbers don't change.  The same two to five QBs mentioned at #1 are the only ones in the 23 that were the best in the draft.

HOWEVER.  .  .  The best QB in the draft almost always comes in the first round.  13 of the 19 years I looked at the best QB in the draft was taken in the first round.

So I don't mind us trading down in the first round, but if we are going to take a QB it better be in the first round.

[Deanlj69]

My scenario is a big if at this point and is dependent on Tua dropping to the late teens early 20’s but if he did...

I would draft Chase at 1 or trade down a few spots and go bpa (think Simmons at LB) then trade back into the first and take Tua

[Luvnit2]

(12-26-2019, 01:17 PM)Deanlj69 Wrote: My scenario is a big if at this point and is dependent on Tua dropping to the late teens early 20’s but if he did...

I would draft Chase at 1 or trade down a few spots and go bpa (think Simmons at LB) then trade back into the first and take Tua

Who is in the definite QB market (draft (round 1) or free agency)?

I say Miami, Chargers (Rivers a free agent), Carolina (Newton a free agent), Titans (Tannehill a FA), Jags, Pats ( I really thin Brady will retire or Pats don't sign him), Bengals, Cowboys (Zac a free agent)

Maybe?
Raiders
Steelers
Bucs
Redskins (long shot maybe)
Lions? Injury Stafford

All set:
Chiefs, Giants, Saints Brees going nowhere), Falcons, Seattle, Rams, Cardinals, 49ers, Bears?, Packers, Vikes, Browns, Ravens, Jets, Bills, Colts Texans, Eagles

Steelers don't have a 1st round pick
I have a hunch Rivers replacement gets drafted in round 1
Miami definitely grabs a QB in round 1 (likely Tua with 4th pick)

[Hammerstripes]

(12-24-2019, 03:52 AM)J24 Wrote: That's all we have up? Damn with the way the Hobson talks about he acts like we gave up every pick in the draft to get Carter.
 Also the guy that was drafted in that slot was a bad player who was remembered more for drug use than his NFL career.

Yeah, but we completely whiffed on that draft pick.  Tony Boselli and Warren Sapp were the two guys I wanted so bad.

[Hammerstripes]

(12-24-2019, 02:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: With the first pick of the second round we won't have to give up much to jump into the bottom of the first.  The big bonus is that we get an extra season of control in the rookie contract.

BTW every year the player draft rankings change dramatically AFTER the college season is over.  At this point in 08 Andre Smith was the consensus number one overall pick in the draft.  In '13 Teddy Bridgewater was a top 5 pick.  In 17 Josh Allen was a late-first, early-second round pick.  So was Carson Wentz in 15.  The year Ryan Leaf challenged Peyton Manning for number one overall he came from way back at the end of the season.

There is no telling how all these guys shake out and who will be available late in the first round.

On the flip side, if there is a guy that slips out of the first round, some team will be very eager to move up to #33 to get him.  When a team gets the night to re-evaluate the board and see where things are, that #33 pick becomes very valuable.  We could very easily turn that into an extra second if the board falls right.

[JSR18]

(12-26-2019, 01:17 PM)Deanlj69 Wrote: My scenario is a big if at this point and is dependent on Tua dropping to the late teens early 20’s but if he did...

I would draft Chase at 1 or trade down a few spots and go bpa (think Simmons at LB) then trade back into the first and take Tua

  I'm not trying to be an ass. I'm just really wondering why you'd pin a football teams future on a QB with a broken hip? 
               
                     Tua dropping to the late teens early 20's? He may not even get drafted...

[Deanlj69]

(12-28-2019, 02:25 AM)JSR18 Wrote:   I'm not trying to be an ass. I'm just really wondering why you'd pin a football teams future on a QB with a broken hip? 
               
                     Tua dropping to the late teens early 20's? He may not even get drafted...

That is a fair question but everything I have seen indicates there is no chance he slides out of the 1st round. I have seen nothing saying he wont be drafted. Where did you see that?

Medical evaluations may change regarding his hip but as of now there seems to be no long term concern. The only concern medically thus far has been multiple injuries.

[JSR18]

(12-28-2019, 01:29 PM)Deanlj69 Wrote: That is a fair question but everything I have seen indicates there is no chance he slides out of the 1st round. I have seen nothing saying he wont be drafted. Where did you see that?

Medical evaluations  may change regarding his hip but as of now there seems to be no long term concern. The only concern medically thus far has been multiple injuries.

  I can't find it now. Which means it's probably been removed. You are correct everything I can find is saying late 1st round.

  I still have to question giving the future of your football team to somebody who has had 2 ankle injuries and a MAJOR hip injury going to the NFL where players are bigger and faster and stronger...

[Deanlj69]

(12-28-2019, 07:23 PM)JSR18 Wrote:   I can't find it now. Which means it's probably been removed. You are correct everything I can find is saying late 1st round.

  I still have to question giving the future of your football team to somebody who has had 2 ankle injuries and a MAJOR hip injury going to the NFL where players are bigger and faster and stronger...

I agree with what you are saying 100%, he would need to be cleared medically and that is a big if. My original point was if you can sell high and get 2 potential impact players in round 1 as well as an additional 2nd round pick then it’s worth considering as the team has multiple needs.

This is all now a moot point as Burrow has 7 touchdowns in the first half. We know Mike Brown is never trading that pick.

Welcome to Cincinnati Joe!

[grampahol]

I'm thinking the Joe and Joe Show will become a new thing in Cincinnati for a while.. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Brady doesn't have a big arm either for those saying that Burrow isn't any good.

Burrow had quite a few accurate bombs he threw this season so I don't even understand the argument about
the one weakness some are saying that he has. LSU just scored 49 in the first half against Oklahoma, yeah.

This guy isn't worth the first round pick.

[bengaloo]

(12-24-2019, 02:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Several years ago I read a story by Hobson about the Bengal trading up in '95 to #1 in 1995. Geoff claimed that the Bengals would have taken DE Kevin Carter (All-Pro. 104 career sacks. Led league with 17 in '99) at 5 and RB Curtis Martin (Hall of Fame) at 36 if they had not traded them to get Ki-Jana.

So maybe that is why Mike Brown will never trade up again.

Thats very interesting. Those two guys couldve changed a lot about the 90s and early 2000s. That is a major setback move

[JSR18]

(12-28-2019, 08:54 PM)Deanlj69 Wrote: I agree with what you are saying 100%, he would need to be cleared medically and that is a big if. My original point was if you can sell high and get 2 potential impact players in round 1 as well as an additional 2nd round pick then it’s worth considering as the team has multiple needs.

This is all now a moot point as Burrow has 7 touchdowns in the first half. We know Mike Brown is never trading that pick.

Welcome to Cincinnati Joe!

  That was my idea in a different thread with taking Chase Young in the 1st and Jalen Hurts in the 2nd until Hurts looked like hot dog shit and Burrow dropped 49 on them in the 1st half.


Welcome to the 'nati  Mr Burrow!!