Article - Says AD not main issue

[Kingslayer]

I love Andy Dalton. I think he is an amazing human being, a solid member of the community and overall, for what he has been given a very underrated quarterback. However, He has had his chances. I think 2015 was his year and unfortunately his thumb was smashed by the Steelers, same as Carson Palmer and 2005 with the knee. How ironic.

It's time to move on and draft the best QB prospect. Joe Burrow.

[*jason*]

(12-26-2019, 12:39 AM)CincinnatiKid Wrote: No playoff wins. He had plenty of chances to carry us and failed each time

Honest question; which QB in the NFL is "carrying" his team right now? I'm not defending Andy Dalton. I'm tired of the same lame arguments, and I want him gone because I'm sick of hearing about him, but QBs don't carry bad teams to anything. I guess Andrew Luck sorta carried the Colts from 2012 to 2014, but it didn't end well for him.

[CJD]

I don't think most people who want AD replaced think he's the main issue. It's just we aren't going to win with him as our QB. He cannot elevate his teammates and is strictly average.

Having a strictly average QB puts a HUGE onus on your defense if you want to be successful. Now that we have the #1, why not upgrade the most important position in the NFL (and perhaps all of professional sports?)

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-26-2019, 12:34 AM)jason Wrote: How do the Rams tie into all of this again?

Yeah, I didn’t get that either...

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-26-2019, 12:50 AM)jason Wrote: Honest question; which QB in the NFL is "carrying" his team right now? I'm not defending Andy Dalton. I'm tired of the same lame arguments, and I want him gone because I'm sick of hearing about him, but QBs don't carry bad teams to anything. I guess Andrew Luck sorta carried the Colts from 2012 to 2014, but it didn't end well for him.

I’d say Russell Wilson.

You also can’t really discount what Jackson has done with Baltimore. No way in hell they’re a legit Super Bowl contender with Joe Flacco at QB.

Not saying they’re on bad teams, but their QB’s are the main reason they’re as good as they are.

[*jason*]

(12-26-2019, 01:13 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’d say Russell Wilson.

You also can’t really discount what Jackson has done with Baltimore. No way in hell they’re a legit Super Bowl contender with Joe Flacco at QB.

Not saying they’re on bad teams, but their QB’s are the main reason they’re as good as they are.

I agree that Flacco would be holding Baltimore back. But Lamar isn't carrying that team. He's balling out, but there is a lot of talent on that team. They have a really good coaching staff, and front office. All of that contributes to Lamar Jackson's success, and the team's success as a whole. The same goes for Russell Wilson. Wilson's played his entire career on a team that had the best defense in the last decade, and contrary to popular belief has had some really good offensive pieces around him... Russell Wilson is the shit, and is definitely a top 2 or 3 QB in the league, but Seattle's been to the Super Bowl 3 times in 20 years. That's organizational success. Russell Wilson contributes to that, but doesn't carry it.

The thing that many of us knock Andy Dalton for needing are the things that the best QBs in the NFL all have.

I'll say this much though... Deshaun Watson and DeAndre Hopkins sorta carry Houston. They don't seem to get anywhere, but those two seem to be overwhelmingly responsible for any success that team has.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-26-2019, 01:39 AM)jason Wrote: I agree that Flacco would be holding Baltimore back. But Lamar isn't carrying that team. He's balling out, but there is a lot of talent on that team. They have a really good coaching staff, and front office. All of that contributes to Lamar Jackson's success, and the team's success as a whole. The same goes for Russell Wilson. Wilson's played his entire career on a team that had the best defense in the last decade, and contrary to popular belief has had some really good offensive pieces around him... Russell Wilson is the shit, and is definitely a top 2 or 3 QB in the league, but Seattle's been to the Super Bowl 3 times in 20 years. That's organizational success. Russell Wilson contributes to that, but doesn't carry it.

The thing that many of us knock Andy Dalton for needing are the things that the best QBs in the NFL all have.

I'll say this much though... Deshaun Watson and DeAndre Hopkins sorta carry Houston. They don't seem to get anywhere, but those two seem to be overwhelmingly responsible for any success that team has.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

Also, there’s talent on every single team in the league. But elite QB play and good coaching usually are the difference maker.

[*jason*]

(12-26-2019, 01:46 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We’ll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

Also, there’s talent on every single team in the league. But elite QB play and good coaching usually are the difference maker.

Yes but guys that play QB on a team that have a really good defense, Mark Ingram, sure handed TEs, Ozzie Newsome, a very good coaching staff, a good line with an All Pro in front of them, and a future star at WR tend to be successful... Again; Lamar Jackson is playing outta his mind this year, but he's not dragging a group of bums to glory. Carson Palmer, Andy Dalton, Akili Smith, and David Klingler never had all of the benefits Lamar Jackson has this year.

The best QBs in the league right now were all drafted into pretty good situations. They play for teams with a recent history of success, and weren't drafted first overall, or the first QB off the board. That's not to say a Joe Burrow couldn't be a top 3 QB in the league. I'm saying he has a better chance of being that if he's drafted into a good situation. The cupboard isn't completely bare here, but it's not fully stocked either.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-26-2019, 02:07 AM)jason Wrote: Yes but guys that play QB on a team that have a really good defense, Mark Ingram, sure handed TEs, Ozzie Newsome, a very good coaching staff, a good line with an All Pro in front of them, and a future star at WR tend to be successful... Again; Lamar Jackson is playing outta his mind this year, but he's not dragging a group of bums to glory. Carson Palmer, Andy Dalton, Akili Smith, and David Klingler never had all of the benefits Lamar Jackson has this year.

The best QBs in the league right now were all drafted into pretty good situations. They play for teams with a recent history of success, and weren't drafted first overall, or the first QB off the board. That's not to say a Joe Burrow couldn't be a top 3 QB in the league. I'm saying he has a better chance of being that if he's drafted into a good situation. The cupboard isn't completely bare here, but it's not fully stocked either.

Carson Palmer had a good-great OL (for a while), one of the best WR duos in the league with Chad and TJ, a really good RB with Rudi Johnson, a pair of stud CB’s in JJ and Leon Hall...

Andy Dalton had a top 5 WR in AJ, some damn good # 2’s in Jones and Boyd, a Prow Bowl TE in Eifert, one of the best LT’s of the era, Mixon, Geno, big LoS, Burfict, Reggie Nelson, some pretty good coordinators that all got head coaching jobs because of what they did here (Zimmer, Jay, Hue)

You can...I won’t say “cherry-pick” but you really can point to plenty of good players and coaches on almost any team that’s even halfway decent. And make sound pretty good.

Two things we’ve never really had during the Mike Brown era? Elite QB and a great HC. I’d say Palmer was looking pretty close in 05, but we all know how that turned out.

But anyway, Jackson is going to win MVP, and with NE looking entirely beatable, I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see Baltimore go all the way. Pretty crazy to think people were mocking that draft pick, and talking about how the Chargers “figured out how to stop him” just last year in the playoffs. Not saying we’d be playoff bound if we had Jackson, but I guarantee we would have a lot more than 1 win.

[bengaloo]

I want to see if ZT can hold himself accountable and give up his play calling duties. He was a weak link on the offense. He gave up on the run game about 5 minutes into the 1st quarter against Seattle and didnt go back to it until our QBs had been nearly killed and the season was a total wash. Then it took Turner to figure out how to get it going. His red zone play calling was an erratic mess. Not impressive at all for a first look into ZT's imaginary offensive mastermind. What is he thinking? As a HC he should be trying to find the absolute best OC we can find. If he fancy's himself as that, we are screwed. I worry hes the kind of dude who's going to do nothing but pull a goofball smile and yell "Weeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!" as he takes this team over the cliff. Not impressed so far, at least as an OC. I wish we could just get Rivera in here and forget this season happened.

[Luvnit2]

Let's get the thread back on track.

It stated AD was NOT THE MAIN REASON

I think that is accurate.

So many focus on AD because it is easy to focus on one player, especially the QB position and I get it.

But, rarely can any QB overcome a God Awful defense. The Bengals defense has been very bad and maybe worst in the league the past 2 years. In contrast, Brady and Jackson play on teams with a great defense. I am knocking them, just adding facts to the conversation.

Steelers are a defensive team and may make playoffs with a 4th string QB, their top running back out most of the year as well as top receiver. Of course, they also may have best OL in football too.

What strength do we have? Our best position player is our punter?????????

[bengaloo]

(12-26-2019, 09:32 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Let's get the thread back on track.

It stated AD was NOT THE MAIN REASON

I think that is accurate.

So many focus on AD because it is easy to focus on one player, especially the QB position and I get it.

But, rarely can any QB overcome a God Awful defense. The Bengals defense has been very bad and maybe worst in the league the past 2 years. In contrast, Brady and Jackson play on teams with a great defense. I am knocking them, just adding facts to the conversation.

Steelers are a defensive team and may make playoffs with a 4th string QB, their top running back out most of the year as well as top receiver. Of course, they also may have best OL in football too.

What strength do we have? Our best position player is our punter?????????

That is an excellent question. I would say the way they used Mixon the last month or 2 of the season was or at least could be a strength. But we would get to the red zone and cripple ourselves by going away from whatever got us down the field in the first place. It was strange to watch at times.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-26-2019, 09:32 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Let's get the thread back on track.

It stated AD was NOT THE MAIN REASON

I think that is accurate.

So many focus on AD because it is easy to focus on one player, especially the QB position and I get it.

But, rarely can any QB overcome a God Awful defense. The Bengals defense has been very bad and maybe worst in the league the past 2 years. In contrast, Brady and Jackson play on teams with a great defense. I am knocking them, just adding facts to the conversation.

Steelers are a defensive team and may make playoffs with a 4th string QB, their top running back out most of the year as well as top receiver. Of course, they also may have best OL in football too.

What strength do we have? Our best position player is our punter?????????

I guess I don’t really understand the point of this thread? Do you think Andy Dalton should be replaced or not? What’s it matter if he’s the main problem, part of the problem, a minuscule problem...he’s either the long term answer at QB for the Cincinnati Bengals or he’s not. And he’s clearly not. Time. To. Move. On.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-26-2019, 09:37 AM)bengaloo Wrote: That is an excellent question. I would say the way they used Mixon the last month or 2 of the season was or at least could be a strength. But we would get to the red zone and cripple ourselves by going away from whatever got us down the field in the first place. It was strange to watch at times.

Yep. Our strength on offense should be our running game considering we have one of the best RB’s in the league. And on the other side of the ball our DL. Both came alive down the stretch, but between Taylor’s horrendous play calling and Dalton’s poor QB play we still only managed one win.

[BengalsRocker]

(12-26-2019, 09:37 AM)bengaloo Wrote: That is an excellent question. I would say the way they used Mixon the last month or 2 of the season was or at least could be a strength. But we would get to the red zone and cripple ourselves by going away from whatever got us down the field in the first place. It was strange to watch at times.

Yes and so that falls back on Zac.

He also underutilized other players such as TEs at times.

Dalton's errors and Zac's weak coaching abilities should shoulder the majority of the blame in my opinion for offensive woes with the lack of O-line talent getting a large piece of the pie chart too.

Defense is all on Lou and poor linebacker talent.

I think shifting blame to defense is understandable but not the reason why they only have one win.

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-26-2019, 01:05 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I don't think most people who want AD replaced think he's the main issue. It's just we aren't going to win with him as our QB. He cannot elevate his teammates and is strictly average.

Having a strictly average QB puts a HUGE onus on your defense if you want to be successful. Now that we have the #1, why not upgrade the most important position in the NFL (and perhaps all of professional sports?)

Exactly,

This team back thru the AD era has a small margin of error. AJ goes out we can't win, defense plays slightly bad we can't win and on and on. AD is just not a QB that can elevate what's around him. Coaching is a part of this issue as well.

Like me and several others have said - Dalton is not the (only) problem, but he's not the solution either.

(12-26-2019, 01:46 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We’ll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

Also, there’s talent on every single team in the league. But elite QB play and good coaching usually are the difference maker.

Right

(12-26-2019, 10:09 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Yes and so that falls back on Zac.

He also underutilized other players such as TEs at times.

Dalton's errors and Zac's weak coaching abilities should shoulder the majority of the blame in my opinion for offensive woes with the lack of O-line talent getting a large piece of the pie chart too.

Defense is all on Lou and poor linebacker talent.

I think shifting blame to defense is understandable but not the reason why they only have one win.

Right

When you score 15 points a game on average and can't score TD's in the red zone and have like four or five 2nd half TD's all season looking at defense is the wrong direction.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(12-25-2019, 10:56 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: LMAO....you said investment in FA.

(12-25-2019, 11:14 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: There’s at least precedent for that. I don’t think we’ve ever brought in a top tier FA in the history of the franchise.

I would think Mike Brown would be excited about free agency simply because of the word “free.”

Seriously, the Bengals won’t be competitive again until Mikey Boy loses his free agency phobia. The best teams build through the draft, through smart trades, and through free agency. Cincinnati builds primarily through the draft alone and this isn’t 1950 anymore. The player acquisition rules have changed yet Mikey Boy won’t budge.

[HuDey]

Ok. So Dalton is not “the main problem with the offense”. That isn’t new news to anyone and it doesn’t change the fact that we need to move on from him at that position. “Not the main problem” does not look very good on the resume.....Hasn’t gotten me very many gigs anyway.

[bengaloo]

(12-26-2019, 11:11 AM)HuDey Wrote: Ok. So Dalton is not “the main problem with the offense”. That isn’t new news to anyone and it doesn’t change the fact that we need to move on from him at that position. “Not the main problem” does not look very good on the resume.....Hasn’t gotten me very many gigs anyway.

No doubt about it. Not the only problem is all you can say for AD. The OL was #1 then its a toss up between AD and ZT for the 2nd and 3rd spot on the fail list. We can address QB and the OL in the offseason, but ZT needs to up his game or its not gonna get us far. If he doesnt hire an OC, I hope he really digs deep and figures out how to coach to his players strengths.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-25-2019, 11:15 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yeah, I realize that asking a lot of them.  However, we have seen them find players before, when their backs were against the wall.  The year that they brought in Manny Lawson and Thomas Howard comes to mind.

I hope they do, it's absolutely necessary to turn this around.