As figured, no changes coming

[uticabengalfan]

This team is getting harder and harder to cheer for. Keep staying the course hoping to catch lightning in a bottle. Not saying Taylor needs fired but something has to change. Oc, dc, ol coach my gosh it doesnt take nfl caliber coaches a full year with a team to figure out what works and what dont

[BengalChris]

(12-30-2019, 07:19 PM)uticabengalfan Wrote: This team is getting harder and harder to cheer for. Keep staying the course hoping to catch lightning in a bottle. Not saying Taylor needs fired but something has to change. Oc, dc, ol coach my gosh it doesnt take nfl caliber coaches a full year with a team to figure out what works and what dont

Another year of just horrible decision making by this front office. They dealt themselves a bad hand and they're now deciding to stand pat with all the marbles on the table. Wow!

There's no desire to win a championship with this front office. There just cannot be.

What's the most remarkable thing about all of this is that Mike Brown and family did it to themselves. It's actually laughable.

 

[PDub80]

(12-30-2019, 07:19 PM)uticabengalfan Wrote: This team is getting harder and harder to cheer for. Keep staying the course hoping to catch lightning in a bottle. Not saying Taylor needs fired but something has to change. Oc, dc, ol coach my gosh it doesnt take nfl caliber coaches a full year with a team to figure out what works and what dont

(12-30-2019, 07:34 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Another year of just horrible decision making by this front office. They dealt themselves a bad hand and they're now deciding to stand pat with all the marbles on the table. Wow!

There's no desire to win a championship with this front office. There just cannot be.

What's the most remarkable thing about all of this is that Mike Brown and family did it to themselves. It's actually laughable.

 

Was there a press conferenceference or an announcement that prompted these posts?

[GreenCornBengal]

I mean, in defense of not constantly changing:

• The Browns are constantly swapping coaches/starting QBs... that doesn't work
• We have swapped DCs and OCs freqeuntly over the past few years... hasn't really worked.
  

Consistency goes a long way, but patience is key IMO.

[BengalChris]

(12-30-2019, 07:43 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Was there a press conferenceference or an announcement that prompted these posts?

I'm responding the OP about no changes coming.

 

[JWW1971]

Did anyone really expect Duke, Katie and Troy to come out the day after our season finished and say "Sorry everyone, this was our first time in charge of picking our HC and his staff. We F**ked it up and we are firing X,Y and Z. We promise to get it right the next time...... Honest"
No neither did I, it would make them look like idiots and they wouldn't want that now would they?
There may well be some changes in the staff over the next few weeks and months but don't expect anything major

[Bilbo Saggins]

(12-30-2019, 07:57 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I mean, in defense of not constantly changing:

• The Browns are constantly swapping coaches/starting QBs... that doesn't work
• We have swapped DCs and OCs freqeuntly over the past few years... hasn't really worked.
  

Consistency goes a long way, but patience is key IMO.

I don't agree with this logic.  I believe that winning coaches are retained because they inspire confidence and are objectively better at their jobs than those who are cut loose.  Of course the winning teams stand pat and retain their coaches.  What kind of a moronic owner would can a winning coach, or at least a coach who seemed to overachieve with the talent on their roster?  Sticking with a losing coach is like an OC who keeps calling run plays because running 20+ times is positively correlated with winning.  You run when you win, you don't necessarily win when you run.  Same thing with HCs.  Other teams in the league wouldn't hang onto Marvin Lewis for over a decade, expecting better results simply by way of continuity.  That's the kind of logic that has failed to produce a playoff win since 1990(the worst drought in the league).  

Zac seems like a nice guy, but I predict that this staff's "teeth cutting" phase will last for a very long time if it's allowed to go on.  You can point to the Browns and say that they exist in chaos, but if you're going to hold onto a .500 coach forever and never win a playoff game, what's the difference?  At least the Browns approach has the opportunity to land an undiscovered gem at some point.  

[SunsetBengal]

(12-30-2019, 07:57 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I mean, in defense of not constantly changing:

• The Browns are constantly swapping coaches/starting QBs... that doesn't work
• We have swapped DCs and OCs freqeuntly over the past few years... hasn't really worked.
  

Consistency goes a long way, but patience is key IMO.

Agreed, constantly swapping coaches around does no better than having a different QB each year.  You must pick a direction, go with it, and allow the plan to mature.

Take the Defensive Coordinator role as an example.  We had a great one in Zimmer, we then passed the baton to Guenther, who only had to "steer the car".  Austin was just plain bad, and was rightly fired.  Now after watching what Guenther did with the Raiders this past season, I'm actually glad that the Bengals didn't put up more of a fight to keep him around.  Sure, some might say "Well, he took their defense from being ranked 32, up to 24th", however, the only aspect of the game where their defense has done anything noteworthy is by being 8th in rush yards allowed.

https://www.lineups.com/nfl/teams/stats/oakland-raiders

For all of the shit we have given Anarumo this year, I really don't think he's done that bad of a job.  He had a great plan to open the season at Seattle, they just fell a little short at the end.  They held the team "in" most games, not their fault that the offense was impotent for about 11 games in a row.

[*Nately120*]

Coaches than win keep their jobs, but that doesn't necessarily mean that coaches that keep their jobs will win.

[Atomic Orange]

43.75% scoring TD's in the Red Zone, good for 30th in the NFL.

Clean that up and well..

We could probably get Kitchens or Hue to come here and be our OC.

[BengalChris]

(12-30-2019, 08:27 PM)JWW1971 Wrote: Did anyone really expect Duke, Katie and Troy to come out the day after our season finished and say "Sorry everyone, this was our first time in charge of picking our HC and his staff. We F**ked it up and we are firing X,Y and Z. We promise to get it right the next time...... Honest"
No neither did I, it would make them look like idiots and they wouldn't want that now would they?
There may well be some changes in the staff over the next few weeks and months but don't expect anything major

First off, I think the looking like idiots has already come about. The Taylor hire was a risky move. None of his coaching choices had a history of success anywhere, save for Simmons who was a carry over. The payoff was the worst ever HC start in franchise history (a record that will likely stand for decades), tying the team's all-time worst record, bad drafting (carried over with Duke), and the top pick in the draft.

Secondly, there is point where one much step back and evaluate one's own decisions and make corrections. There's no need to explain them to anyone else, you just make the changes to what you are doing. Of course, not everyone is capable of evaluating their own decisions. We see this in life every day. Some people see the cliff off in the far distance and never get near it (these are consistent winners in life). Others see the cliff coming and make changes to avoid it. Some can't see the cliff until they are upon it and they make radical changes trying to avoid it wondering how the hell they got there. Still, others say to themselves, "I was right" all the way to the bottom. Who knows what they are thinking after they've hit it and checked out.

The question I'd be asking myself, if I were the Bengals front office is, "Do I believe this coaching staff is the right coaching staff to mold the team's next most important player so we can have a shot at some championships?"

That's the key question and frankly I'd be having doubts on this after all the talk and so little walk. There has to be doubts after this stinker of a season and the PR they put out for New Dey. When your whole PR campaign is turned into a joke on the streets, you look like an idiot.

I'd be looking at other coaches who are out there and available and what they've actually accomplished with young QBs. Truthfully, I'd have been looking weeks ago. Maybe the front office did look, but I have doubts that they have that much foresight. They've never shown it before. In fact, they've shown me they'll go over the cliff while saying, "I was right". After all, Mike Brown did this all the way through the 90's and turned his dad's proud creation into the laughing stock of professional sports. The Bengals were saved by the welfare of the better NFL teams.

You only need to look at Ryan Tannehill. Taylor was his assistant QB and QB coach and short time OC in Miami. Look what a good coaching staff has done with Tannehill in Tennessee. Granted Taylor has more experience with QBs now, but that didn't show up this season. Not at all.

That's my take on Mike Brown and family. Will the family break away from the Mike Brown way of thinking? Who knows?

Our only say in the matter is a remote one by choosing to pay them or not.

 

[GreenCornBengal]

(12-30-2019, 08:50 PM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: I don't agree with this logic.  I believe that winning coaches are retained because they inspire confidence and are objectively better at their jobs than those who are cut loose.  Of course the winning teams stand pat and retain their coaches.  What kind of a moronic owner would can a winning coach, or at least a coach who seemed to overachieve with the talent on their roster?  Sticking with a losing coach is like an OC who keeps calling run plays because running 20+ times is positively correlated with winning.  You run when you win, you don't necessarily win when you run.  Same thing with HCs.  Other teams in the league wouldn't hang onto Marvin Lewis for over a decade, expecting better results simply by way of continuity.  That's the kind of logic that has failed to produce a playoff win since 1990(the worst drought in the league).  

Zac seems like a nice guy, but I predict that this staff's "teeth cutting" phase will last for a very long time if it's allowed to go on.  You can point to the Browns and say that they exist in chaos, but if you're going to hold onto a .500 coach forever and never win a playoff game, what's the difference?  At least the Browns approach has the opportunity to land an undiscovered gem at some point.  

Channeling my inner Fred here -- there are 31 'losing' coaches each season. The trigger happy NFL has adopted the '1 year to prove it' mentality, which i don't think is a good one to have if you are a franchise like the Bengals. How long does it take to judge whether a coach is 'a winning coach', 'overachieving with the roster' or 'not good enough'?.. I don't believe coaches are given enough time these days to prove things one way or the other.

I just watched a video on how Zimmer could possibly be leaving Minnesota. If the decision was solely on the ownership to make the decision, should they keep him or let him walk? I'll pose the same question to you, if the Vikings have a choice, should they keep Zimmer? Is he a winning coach? Is he not good enough? If you had a team, would you cycle coaches until you won a SuperBowl? What criteria would make a coach 'acceptable' in their first season???

[*jason*]

(12-30-2019, 09:33 PM)BengalChris Wrote: First off, I think the looking like idiots has already come about. The Taylor hire was a risky move. None of his coaching choices had a history of success anywhere, save for Simmons who was a carry over. The payoff was the worst ever HC start in franchise history (a record that will likely stand for decades), tying the team's all-time worst record, bad drafting (carried over with Duke), and the top pick in the draft.

Secondly, there is point where one much step back and evaluate one's own decisions and make corrections. There's no need to explain them to anyone else, you just make the changes to what you are doing. Of course, not everyone is capable of evaluating their own decisions. We see this in life every day. Some people see the cliff off in the far distance and never get near it (these are consistent winners in life). Others see the cliff coming and make changes to avoid it. Some can't see the cliff until they are upon it and they make radical changes trying to avoid it wondering how the hell they got there. Still, others say to themselves, "I was right" all the way to the bottom. Who knows what they are thinking after they've hit it and checked out.

The question I'd be asking myself, if I were the Bengals front office is, "Do I believe this coaching staff is the right coaching staff to mold the team's next most important player so we can have a shot at some championships?"

That's the key question and frankly I'd be having doubts on this after all the talk and so little walk. There has to be doubts after this stinker of a season and the PR they put out for New Dey.

I'd be looking at other coaches who are out there and available and what they've actually accomplished with young QBs. Truthfully, I'd have been looking weeks ago. Maybe the front office did look, but I have doubts that they have that much foresight. They've never shown it before. In fact, they've shown me they'll go over the cliff while saying, "I was right". After all, Mike Brown did this all the way through the 90's and turned his dad's proud creation into the laughing stock of professional sports. The Bengals were saved by the welfare of the better NFL teams.

You only need to look at Ryan Tannehill. Taylor was his assistant QB and QB coach and short time OC in Miami. Look what a good coaching staff has done with Tannehill in Tennessee. Granted Taylor has more experience with QBs now, but that didn't show up this season. Not at all.

That's my take on Mike Brown and family. Will the family break away from the Mike Brown way of thinking? Who knows?

Our only say in the matter is a remote one by choosing to pay them or not.

 

It is crazy that Ryan Tannehill is finally playing like a first round draft pick what; 8 years into his career? A similar thing happened in Miami with Devante Parker this year too. The guy was an absolute bust for 4 years until this season.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(12-30-2019, 08:54 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Take the Defensive Coordinator role as an example.  We had a great one in Zimmer, we then passed the baton to Guenther, who only had to "steer the car".  Austin was just plain bad, and was rightly fired.

For all of the shit we have given Anarumo this year, I really don't think he's done that bad of a job.  He had a great plan to open the season at Seattle, they just fell a little short at the end.  They held the team "in" most games, not their fault that the offense was impotent for about 11 games in a row.

Lou Anarumo was a pleasant surprise. He made a little something out of a lot of nothing. The defense wasn’t Zimmer or Guenther quality but it was better than Austin quality.

[PDub80]

(12-30-2019, 08:06 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I'm responding the OP about no changes coming.

 

Ok, I get that, but... WTF was he ranting about? Like... how does he know no changes? Is one goofball spewing nonsense worth parroting?

I thought I missed some weird press conference or something. Turns out, nope... just another fan still drunk from game day aimlessly ranting into the air. 

[BengalChris]

(12-30-2019, 09:44 PM)jason Wrote: It is crazy that Ryan Tannehill is finally playing like a first round draft pick what; 8 years into his career? A similar thing happened in Miami with Devante Parker this year too. The guy was an absolute bust for 4 years until this season.

Coaching babe, coaching.

[*jason*]

(12-30-2019, 09:45 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Lou Anarumo was a pleasant surprise. He made a little something out of a lot of nothing. The defense wasn’t Zimmer or Guenther quality but it was better than Austin quality.

I dunno... I mean a guess he did damn near get an interception yesterday, but I think dropping Billings back into coverage is a lil closer to stupid than it is mad scientist. Austin set the bar pretty low last year, but there were times this season that it looked like he was still here. I do know this much; something happened to Carlos Dunlap during the bye week. That guy played outta his mind during the second half of the season. I heard he was graded higher than guys like Khalil Mack and Nick Bosa over that span.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(12-30-2019, 09:51 PM)jason Wrote: I do know this much; something happened to Carlos Dunlap during the bye week. That guy played outta his mind during the second half of the season. I heard he was graded higher than guys like Khalil Mack and Nick Bosa over that span.

Carlos Dunlap admitted to having an injury which resolved around Week Nine. The difference was amazing.

[Trademark]

Of course no changes fully expect another losing season

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-30-2019, 07:34 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Another year of just horrible decision making by this front office. They dealt themselves a bad hand and they're now deciding to stand pat with all the marbles on the table. Wow!

There's no desire to win a championship with this front office. There just cannot be.

What's the most remarkable thing about all of this is that Mike Brown and family did it to themselves. It's actually laughable.

 

Bengals FO:

(12-30-2019, 08:54 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Agreed, constantly swapping coaches around does no better than having a different QB each year.  You must pick a direction, go with it, and allow the plan to mature.

Take the Defensive Coordinator role as an example.  We had a great one in Zimmer, we then passed the baton to Guenther, who only had to "steer the car".  Austin was just plain bad, and was rightly fired.  Now after watching what Guenther did with the Raiders this past season, I'm actually glad that the Bengals didn't put up more of a fight to keep him around.  Sure, some might say "Well, he took their defense from being ranked 32, up to 24th", however, the only aspect of the game where their defense has done anything noteworthy is by being 8th in rush yards allowed.

https://www.lineups.com/nfl/teams/stats/oakland-raiders

For all of the shit we have given Anarumo this year, I really don't think he's done that bad of a job.  He had a great plan to open the season at Seattle, they just fell a little short at the end.  They held the team "in" most games, not their fault that the offense was impotent for about 11 games in a row.

That type of thinking is what led to the Bengals having Ken Zampese for a second year, which led to a forfeited season after his uninspiring offense led to 0 TD and 3 FG in the first two weeks combined, both games at home. Then by the time they realized they HAD to fire Zampese, the season had already started so you could only really hire from within, leading us to be stuck with Bill Lazor. Bill Lazor who ALSO got a second year because of this type of thinking. Don't make the exact same mistake for a 3rd time in a row.

When people are bad, get rid of them. Rotten things don't ferment, they just get more rotten.

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

29th Overall Defense
25th Scoring Defense
32nd Rushing Defense
31st in Big Rushing Plays Allowed
30th in Big Passing Plays Allowed
26th in Sacks
22nd in INT
26th in FF

I'm sorry, but where anywhere do you see that Anarumo hasn't done that bad off a job, Sunset?