2020 should be a great year

[BengalsRocker]

(01-04-2020, 03:10 AM)mallorian69 Wrote: I know right. Some of these guys are starting to sound like Clowns fans. "Just wait! Next year is our year! Souper bowlz!"

I'm convinced at this point that The Family will have to dumb-luck into any winning situation.

Here.  Let's just throw THIS up against the wall and see if it sticks!

[*Nately120*]

(01-03-2020, 11:31 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Actually I would argue Dalton ended up a better prospect as QB, 5 to 2 playoffs vs Palmer,Dalton career highest winning percentage 

The Cardinals made the playoffs twice with Palmer injured for it as Dalton was in 2015, so it's more like 5 to 4 but Palmer got a first round bye and won a playoff game and got to meltdown on the conference championships. 

[Benton]

(01-04-2020, 02:41 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Same HC  (2-14)
Same OC  (26th overall/30th scoring)
Same DC  (29th overall/25th scoring)
Same FO  (0 Pro Bowlers last 6 drafts, thinks a good FA period is Bobby Hart/Preston Brown/CJ Uzomah/BW Webb each getting 3yr contracts)

But THIS time it'll be different.

Marvin was here 78 years. Almost every player was Marvin's player. Almost every player had been taught how to play by... Marvin.

The players got better as the season went on. They'll get better next season. As you mention with the draft, it's not like Zac walked in to a stacked team.
He walked into what Marvin had built. Hard to turn a shack into a mansion in one season.


And I agree on the draft. I haven't been happy with one in five or six years. But hopefully two things will help: 1 not having Marvin's input and 2 picking first with a couple of likely decent players on the board.

[Sled21]

(01-03-2020, 11:55 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Need to get a new DC and someone besides Taylor calling the plays.

This will go a long way in getting what you say here done.

Agree about Taylor giving up play calling, Disagree about Lou, I think he should get one more year. He has the defense playing well at the end of the season.

[*Nately120*]

(01-04-2020, 11:19 AM)Benton Wrote: He walked into what Marvin had built. Hard to turn a shack into a mansion in one season.

If the last 3 Marvin years were a shack, ZT turned it into a....what's worse than a shack?  Crappy improvised shed made out of particle board and poorly assembled?

If we are going to pull the defense that ZT has to clean up Marvin's mess we may as well look at 2019 as the year ZT burned the entire structure to the ground and NOW he's going to start building said mansion.  Of course, you should never pay someone to demolish your house if you aren't sure he can build a better house than the one he destroyed, but enough about my ill-fated career as a contractor. 

[GreenCornBengal]

(01-04-2020, 01:20 PM)Nately120 Wrote: If the last 3 Marvin years were a shack, ZT turned it into a....what's worse than a shack?  Crappy improvised shed made out of particle board and poorly assembled?

If we are going to pull the defense that ZT has to clean up Marvin's mess we may as well look at 2019 as the year ZT burned the entire structure to the ground and NOW he's going to start building said mansion.  Of course, you should never pay someone to demolish your house if you aren't sure he can build a better house than the one he destroyed, but enough about my ill-fated career as a contractor. 

It's kinda like spring cleaning. You first make a bigger mess by taking everything out and putting it into piles. Then, by the end, you've got a much cleaner place, but you were worried early in the day.

[Benton]

(01-04-2020, 01:20 PM)Nately120 Wrote: If the last 3 Marvin years were a shack, ZT turned it into a....what's worse than a shack?  Crappy improvised shed made out of particle board and poorly assembled?

If we are going to pull the defense that ZT has to clean up Marvin's mess we may as well look at 2019 as the year ZT burned the entire structure to the ground and NOW he's going to start building said mansion.  Of course, you should never pay someone to demolish your house if you aren't sure he can build a better house than the one he destroyed, but enough about my ill-fated career as a contractor. 

Well, pretty much.

Zac didn't inherit some grizzled team of well coached veterans who just couldn't get over the hump of winning big games, only needing a better play caller. We haven't drafted well or played great for several years. That's all stuff you fix in the off-season. 

I'm willing to give Zac more than on off-season to fix it.

[Wes Mantooth]

Hopefully 2020 is a better year. I think that's something we can all agree on.

Great year, though? I guess that depends on your definition of "great". I think this team wins a few more games but I think 7 wins is their absolute ceiling, barring some HUGE spending in FA.

Throwing a rookie QB on to a last place team and then wanting or hoping for greatness is akin to wanting or hoping for Kate Upton to knock on your door at midnight, after her car just broke down, and she just happens to be both decently drunk and stupidly horny.

[Wes Mantooth]

(01-04-2020, 01:20 PM)Nately120 Wrote: If the last 3 Marvin years were a shack, ZT turned it into a....what's worse than a shack? 

This?

[Bengalholic]

(01-04-2020, 02:23 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Throwing a rookie QB on to a last place team and then wanting or hoping for greatness is akin to wanting or hoping for Kate Upton to knock on your door at midnight, after her car just broke down, and she just happens to be both decently drunk and stupidly horny.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-03-2020, 11:45 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Dalton had better Defenses though.

Palmer never had no Geno's or Dunlap's very long.

And Palmer went to the Cards and actually won a Playoff game.

Carson also made a great throw before he got taken out of the Steeler Playoff game which means he could of played well
maybe in a big damn game. Never seen this with Dalton and I like Dalton and have always supported him and like him 
better than Carson as a person. Just have to say who is the more talented QB.

Dalton is and always will be a Bengal great for how he has handled everything. Great man.

Cannot blame Carson either, lets move on to Burrow and hopefully another even better Bengal great will emerge.

We can debate supporting cast in the end Dalton came out better on playoffs and winning  and as a class act..but I agree I will support whoever's takes over at QB

[WestCoastBengalsFan]

(01-03-2020, 09:25 PM)Benton Wrote: It was a rough, rough season, but things look better than they have in years.

We're most likely drafting the best quarterback prospect we've had since we drafted Carson. We've also got high picks in the rest of the draft and should have some flexibility.

We had some players come on late that could be solid starters. Pratt may be one of my new favorite guys. He's not blowing anything up, but he looks like he's going to be a reliable guy, judging by the last several games. Jordan may give us some rotational line help. Those were two bigger concerns at the start of the season, but don't seem as pressing heading into the draft.

We've also been using the waiver wire, which is a good sign that we're going to be active bringing in new guys.

Our coaching improved as the season went on, too.

Toss in a most likely weaker schedule (we ended the season with one in the top 10ish).

2020 is going to be a good year for the team.

Agree with most of this, not sold on Jordan yet though. Regardless looking forward to 2020 and trying to stay optimistic. 

[*Nately120*]

(01-04-2020, 02:05 PM)Benton Wrote: Well, pretty much.

Zac didn't inherit some grizzled team of well coached veterans who just couldn't get over the hump of winning big games, only needing a better play caller. We haven't drafted well or played great for several years. That's all stuff you fix in the off-season. 

I'm willing to give Zac more than on off-season to fix it.

That's exactly how things were presented going into 2019, though.  We had a win-now roster that Marvin wasn't getting the most out of with his lack of adjustments, interest in beating the Steelers, and ability to win in prime time or the playoffs.  The idea going into 2019 was that we had a playoff roster and going from Marvin to ZT was going to be an instant upgrade.

We win 2 games and the roster needs to be blown up.  Oh well. I don't disagree with the overall ability of this team being an issue, but you have to admit we were optimistically buying into the notion that HC was the one thing we needed to fix to be better almost instantly.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-04-2020, 01:50 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: No we don't.

If Lou fluked out a game or two here or there, sure.

He consistently got great performances out of our D after the Bmore game and our players responded well.

There was great improvement in the second half of the year on all fronts, not just a game or two.

Well, I have to disagree with you here Truck which is a rare occasion.

Sure, Lou got a little better as the year went on but this Defense still finished as one of the worst.

Not going to accept mediocrity let alone being one of the worst.

Some things need to happen around here and getting a good to great DC is one of them.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-04-2020, 11:19 AM)Benton Wrote: Marvin was here 78 years. Almost every player was Marvin's player. Almost every player had been taught how to play by... Marvin.

The players got better as the season went on. They'll get better next season. As you mention with the draft, it's not like Zac walked in to a stacked team.
He walked into what Marvin had built. Hard to turn a shack into a mansion in one season.


And I agree on the draft. I haven't been happy with one in five or six years. But hopefully two things will help: 1 not having Marvin's input and 2 picking first with a couple of likely decent players on the board.

The playcalling never got better as the season went on.

-The Bengals came into Week 5 going against the Cardinals who were the WORST defense in the league against TEs. They didn't have a single target to a TE for the first 35 minutes of the game. Not one.
-They ran multiple 4th and inches QB runs out of the shotgun.
-They had 1st and Goal from the 2 and threw the ball 3 straight times. 
-They had 1st and Goal from the 8 and ran the ball 2 straight times.

They might be mostly Marvin guys, but Zac Taylor was here when they signed Bobby Hart, Preston Brown, Webb. He was here when they drafted a blocking TE in the 2nd round, a crappy QB in the 4th. They drafted Michael Jordan in the 4th and slotted him in as a starter, and he was terrible.

Nobody that Taylor has added to this team in 2019 has made me think that a team full of "his guys" will make things better instead of worse.

Even if he didn't have a loaded team, he didn't have a team that should have been 1-14 coming into Week 17. He is a bad coach.

(01-04-2020, 01:09 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Agree about Taylor giving up play calling, Disagree about Lou, I think he should get one more year. He has the defense playing well at the end of the season.

He just was playing against worse offenses, not that his defense was playing well. Here's the Bengals' opponents after they got obliterated by the Ravens in Week 10.

Week 11: 24th scoring offense
Week 12: 27th scoring offense
Week 13: 31st scoring offense
Week 14: 22nd scoring offense
Week 15: 7th scoring offense (they got stomped by the Patriots)
Week 16: 25th scoring offense
Week 17: 22nd scoring offense

Over the last 7 games, the 2nd best offense they faced off against was the Brown's 22nd ranked scoring offense. Seriously.

Don't be taken in by that fools gold.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(01-04-2020, 09:19 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The playcalling never got better as the season went on.

-The Bengals came into Week 5 going against the Cardinals who were the WORST defense in the league against TEs. They didn't have a single target to a TE for the first 35 minutes of the game. Not one.
-They ran multiple 4th and inches QB runs out of the shotgun.
-They had 1st and Goal from the 2 and threw the ball 3 straight times. 
-They had 1st and Goal from the 8 and ran the ball 2 straight times.

They might be mostly Marvin guys, but Zac Taylor was here when they signed Bobby Hart, Preston Brown, Webb. He was here when they drafted a blocking TE in the 2nd round, a crappy QB in the 4th. They drafted Michael Jordan in the 4th and slotted him in as a starter, and he was terrible.

Nobody that Taylor has added to this team in 2019 has made me think that a team full of "his guys" will make things better instead of worse.

Even if he didn't have a loaded team, he didn't have a team that should have been 1-14 coming into Week 17. He is a bad coach.



He just was playing against worse offenses, not that his defense was playing well. Here's the Bengals' opponents after they got obliterated by the Ravens in Week 10.

Week 11: 24th scoring offense
Week 12: 27th scoring offense
Week 13: 31st scoring offense
Week 14: 22nd scoring offense
Week 15: 7th scoring offense (they got stomped by the Patriots)
Week 16: 25th scoring offense
Week 17: 22nd scoring offense

Over the last 7 games, the 2nd best offense they faced off against was the Brown's 22nd ranked scoring offense. Seriously.

Don't be taken in by that fools gold.

Yards.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-04-2020, 09:29 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Yards.

Arguably worse if you look at yards.

Week 11: 11th offense in yards
Week 12: 30th offense in yards
Week 13: 32nd offense in yards
Week 14: 22nd offense in yards
Week 15: 15th offense in yards
Week 16: 27th offense in yards
Week 17: 22nd offense in yards

It's not that far off from the previous list. All that really changed with yards is the Raiders are higher ranked, and the Patriots are lower ranked. The Browns stay put at 22, and the other three teams are all a little bit worse.

Goes from an average of 22.57 by points, to an average of 22.71 when you look at yards.


- - - - - - -
So I will state this fact again. The Bengals didn't get better after the Ravens game, they just played worse teams.

[BengalChris]

(01-04-2020, 02:41 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Same HC  (2-14)
Same OC  (26th overall/30th scoring)
Same DC  (29th overall/25th scoring)
Same FO  (0 Pro Bowlers last 6 drafts, thinks a good FA period is Bobby Hart/Preston Brown/CJ Uzomah/BW Webb each getting 3yr contracts)

But THIS time it'll be different.

Bengals fans are forever hopeful that somehow, some way or other, Mike Brown will hit a stroke of ultra-luck and not blow it all by thinking his Mike Brown thoughts too much. Remember it was Mike Brown who extended Dave Shula's contract after 3 years of miserableness.

Sadly, ultra-luck has never happened during the entire time since Mike Brown inherited the team and named himself GM.

Look at how Taylor brought along Finley this season. It was pretty bad. Finley, of course, isn't Burrow, but did we see any improvement in Finley? At all? Look at Dalton, his play was worse than last season's.

 

[*Synric*]

(01-04-2020, 09:19 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: He just was playing against worse offenses, not that his defense was playing well. Here's the Bengals' opponents after they got obliterated by the Ravens in Week 10.

Week 11: 24th scoring offense
Week 12: 27th scoring offense
Week 13: 31st scoring offense
Week 14: 22nd scoring offense
Week 15: 7th scoring offense (they got stomped by the Patriots)
Week 16: 25th scoring offense
Week 17: 22nd scoring offense

Over the last 7 games, the 2nd best offense they faced off against was the Brown's 22nd ranked scoring offense. Seriously.

Don't be taken in by that fools gold.

The defense did play better. 

The defensive line got healthier so it allowed Captian Lou to start mixing up his odd and even fronts so the scheme looked more diverse. They filled their run lanes a hell of alot better than they did in the first half of the season. Were they perfect? No but there is alot to build on going into 2020.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-05-2020, 01:19 AM)Synric Wrote: The defense did play better. 

The defensive line got healthier so it allowed Captian Lou to start mixing up his odd and even fronts so the scheme looked more diverse. They filled their run lanes a hell of alot better than they did in the first half of the season. Were they perfect? No but there is alot to build on going into 2020.

Atkins/Dunlap/Hubbard/Billings/Tupou missed a combined total of 3 games. That is pretty healthy. Not something you need to "get healthier" from.

They played only 2 winning teams in the 2nd half of the year, and those 2 teams scored 83 points.