Todd McShay: "Joe Burrow Makes the Game Slow Down"

[Bengalholic]

Todd McShay gives a pretty interesting and insightful breakdown of Burrow. 

[*Synric*]

I believe we are gonna hear alot more stuff like this through the draft process... Just 4 or 5 games of Joe Burrow and he will make a believer out of anyone.

[Bengalholic]

(01-04-2020, 05:03 PM)Synric Wrote: I believe we are gonna hear alot more stuff like this through the draft process... Just 4 or 5 games of Joe Burrow and he will make a believer out of anyone.

Yeah, the more you watch and study him, the more that you notice that some of his traits and abilities truly are special. 

[*psychdoctor*]

If Burrow had back-to-back amazing years like this one, I mean back-to-back identical seasons of setting records, elite accuracy, elite ball placement, there would still be fans on this board that would want to fix the team via trading the pick and drafting someone like Herbert or take a chance on Tua.

Burrow has the Football IQ of Brady and Manning, better accuracy and placement. Yet, even though his arm strength is a plus, it is not elite. They would want the elite arm in Herbert or Eason (who I like).

This has become silly. Burrow could walk on water, feed the entire world to end hunger, talk Mike Brown into retirement, and people will still be waiting for him to fail. I understand the difference of opinions, but this has become a parody of delusional proportions.

On his worst day in the NFL after his rookie year, Burrow will be better than Dalton on his best day in terms of ball placement.

[Hammerstripes]

Unfortunately there is no stat for processing/mental preparation.

Burrow has that and it's the reason that he is so successful along with his accuracy. I haven't ever seen a QB that accurate over the course of a season in the SEC playing the level of comp that he did.

My comp for him is Peyton Manning. The mental part is his strongest suit along with his accuracy. Both had questions about their lack of elite arm strength.

[*bengalfan74*]

A lot of people want to knock his 2018 season. But just like Mcshay says, the 2018 LSU team didn't know what they wanted to do offensively. They just stuck with what they'd been for two decades. Run the ball, 3 yards and a cloud of dust, play defense.

But if you actually watch 2018 film you can see he has good stuff on many plays and many games. Did he light the stat book up ? No But if you actually watch the movie instead of just the trailer you can see he just has "it".

Is he a guaranteed NFL Superstar ? No, nobody is. But I'm willing to take my chances.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(01-04-2020, 07:08 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: If Burrow had back-to-back amazing years like this one, I mean back-to-back identical seasons of setting records, elite accuracy, elite ball placement, there would still be fans on this board that would want to fix the team via trading the pick and drafting someone like Herbert or take a chance on Tua.

Burrow has the Football IQ of Brady and Manning, better accuracy and placement.  Yet, even though his arm strength is a plus, it is not elite.  They would want the elite arm in Herbert or Eason (who I like).  

This has become silly.  Burrow could walk on water, feed the entire world to end hunger, talk Mike Brown into retirement, and people will still be waiting for him to fail.  I understand the difference of opinions, but this has become a parody of delusional proportions.  

On his worst day in the NFL after his rookie year, Burrow will be better than Dalton on his best day in terms of ball placement.

That  I don't agree on; in Andy's very best games, he was elite in terms of touch and precision (Cleveland games in 2015, NO in 2014, Minn and Det. in 2013, etc.). Burrow at his worst wouldn't touch those games.

(01-04-2020, 07:24 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Unfortunately there is no stat for processing/mental preparation.

Burrow has that and it's the reason that he is so successful along with his accuracy.  I haven't ever seen a QB that accurate over the course of a season in the SEC playing the level of comp that he did.

My comp for him is Peyton Manning.  The mental part is his strongest suit along with his accuracy.  Both had questions about their lack of elite arm strength.

I simply don't think he's as, "smart," as Manning. When it comes to being cerebral, he's the best since Manning came out, IMO, but I don't think anyone can touch Manning, past or present.

(01-04-2020, 07:27 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: A lot of people want to knock his 2018 season. But just like Mcshay says, the 2018 LSU team didn't know what they wanted to do offensively. They just stuck with what they'd been for two decades. Run the ball, 3 yards and a cloud of dust, play defense.

But if you actually watch 2018 film you can see he has good stuff on many plays and many games. Did he light the stat book up ? No But if you actually watch the movie instead of just the trailer you can see he just has "it".

Is he a guaranteed NFL Superstar ? No, nobody is. But I'm willing to take my chances.

His numbers were still very good in 2018 though; nothing mind-blowing, but he was:

51st in completions
47th in attempts
77th in completion percentage (the only stat I really have a big disparity with, but his tape shows this is an outlier number)
50th in YPA
42nd in AYPA
36th in yards
T-12th in picks (low, not high)
62nd in Passing TDs
26th in Rushing TDs

Those numbers place him firmly in the above average category, as a Junior.
Now, he's elite as a senior.

[CJD]

(01-04-2020, 03:51 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Todd McShay gives a pretty interesting and insightful breakdown of Burrow. 

Not gonna lie.

McShay being impressed with him is actually a black mark on Burrow's prospect status XD

[Au165]

What is interesting is each week Russell Wilson makes a 10-12 page report of the other team he distributes to his receivers, linemen, backs. It has all the coverages, blitz packages, and formations of their up coming opponent. Joe Brady did this same thing with Burrow this week and would give it to him on Sunday and expect it memorized by Monday...and he did. Everyone that gets drafted in the 1st has talent, it's the mental processing and preparation that separates guys and Burrow has spent the last year learning to prepare like a pro which should go a long way in how good of a start he gets off to.

[3wt]

(01-04-2020, 09:30 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Not gonna lie.

McShay being impressed with him is actually a black mark on Burrow's prospect status XD

He did say on path to the draft that the Bengals would have to give serious thought to taking Young, saying Young's just that good...

[CJD]

(01-06-2020, 03:17 PM)3wt Wrote: He did say on path to the draft that the Bengals would have to give serious thought to taking Young, saying Young's just that good...

Thaaaat's the McShay we know and love.

[Au165]

Not McShay but just saw this...

Most touchdowns thrown into a tight window (per @PFF)

1. Joe Burrow – 24
t2. Sam Howell – 14
t2. Jamie Newman – 14

If Joe Burrow was a stock, I’d literally invest my savings in him. pic.twitter.com/74ZEDMab5S

— Anthony Treash (@PFF_Anthony) January 6, 2020

[Interceptor]

I will be watching intently on the 13th.

[HarleyDog]

(01-04-2020, 07:08 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: If Burrow had back-to-back amazing years like this one, I mean back-to-back identical seasons of setting records, elite accuracy, elite ball placement, there would still be fans on this board that would want to fix the team via trading the pick and drafting someone like Herbert or take a chance on Tua.

The argument isn't a ridiculous one though considering where we need help. However, I get both sides. I will be ok whichever way they go unless they just do something really stupid.

[HarleyDog]

(01-06-2020, 05:31 PM)Au165 Wrote: Not McShay but just saw this...

Most touchdowns thrown into a tight window (per @PFF)

1. Joe Burrow – 24
t2. Sam Howell – 14
t2. Jamie Newman – 14

If Joe Burrow was a stock, I’d literally invest my savings in him. pic.twitter.com/74ZEDMab5S

— Anthony Treash (@PFF_Anthony) January 6, 2020

He looked very relaxed throwing that TD.

(01-06-2020, 07:09 PM)Interceptor Wrote: I will be watching intently on the 13th.

I will be too. I've not watched him play this year and not much of a college football guy, but will definitely be watching this game.

[bengaloo]

I am a defensive minded guy, and wanted Young in a big way until I watched Burrow play, and he carved up Alabama like they were in the MAC. I've watched most of his games since. He is in his own class. I dont think any of Tua, Herbert, Eason or anyone else can touch what he has. This dude has ice in his veins. I cant remember watching a QB with the "it" factor the way he has it.

I cant imagine how many more TDs AJ would have in his career if he had a QB who could lead him the way Burrow does his 3 star WRs.

[TrenchWarfare]

(01-04-2020, 07:08 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: This has become silly. Burrow could walk on water, feed the entire world to end hunger, talk Mike Brown into retirement, and people will still be waiting for him to fail. I understand the difference of opinions, but this has become a parody of delusional proportions.

Not so delusional when you consider the context. The time before last the bengals had 1st overall pick and they didn’t trade back (for all of Saints picks) and that decision put the franchise back five years. Seems understandable that fans would be nervous about passing on similar offer to trade back.

Side note: it’s starting to be silly to read fans comp’ing him to Brady and Peyton. Slow down y’all. There is no doubt Burrow is the best QB in the draft. But possibly a tad premature to do these comps.

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-07-2020, 12:27 AM)bengaloo Wrote: I am a defensive minded guy, and wanted Young in a big way until I watched Burrow play, and he carved up Alabama like they were in the MAC. I've watched most of his games since. He is in his own class. I dont think any of Tua, Herbert, Eason or anyone else can touch what he has. This dude has ice in his veins. I cant remember watching a QB with the "it" factor the way he has it.

I cant imagine how many more TDs AJ would have in his career if he had a QB who could lead him the way Burrow does his 3 star WRs.

Oh I'd love to have Young ! But when your offense has been at or very near the bottom of the NFL for 3 or more years in a row it's time to shake it up on O.

Burrow is just a no brainer all the way around !

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-07-2020, 01:21 AM)TrenchWarfare Wrote: Not so delusional when you consider the context. The time before last the bengals had 1st overall pick and they didn’t trade back (for all of Saints picks) and that decision put the franchise back five years. Seems understandable that fans would be nervous about passing on similar offer to trade back.

Side note: it’s starting to be silly to read fans comp’ing him to Brady and Peyton. Slow down y’all. There is no doubt Burrow is the best QB in the draft. But possibly a tad premature to do these comps.

If we get an offer like that again let’s talk about it. Until then let’s assume no team would be stupid enough to give up that much for any one player. Let’s just focus on what we’re going to do with the pick we actually do have now. Take Joe Burrow.

[Au165]

(01-07-2020, 01:21 AM)TrenchWarfare Wrote: Not so delusional when you consider the context. The time before last the bengals had 1st overall pick and they didn’t trade back (for all of Saints picks) and that decision put the franchise back five years. Seems understandable that fans would be nervous about passing on similar offer to trade back.

Side note: it’s starting to be silly to read fans comp’ing him to Brady and Peyton. Slow down y’all. There is no doubt Burrow is the best QB in the draft. But possibly a tad premature to do these comps.

It was 20 years ago, let it go.

As to the Tom Brady comp, it isn't silly at all. I've heard it from analysts and you see it on tape. When you say these comps you aren't saying they are that person because those guys have a lot of intangibles who make them who you are, what you are comping is skill sets. I keep bringing up one play against, I think Alabama, that if you couldn't see the jersey you would have thought it was Brady. He was on the right hash mark the to his left there were two wide. The route combination was a post wheel concept but the outside WR working in broke off the post into a curl and the Wheel route ran clean but was pressed to the boundary a little more than you'd like. Burrow flicks the ball with perfect touch just over the outside shoulder in a place the defender had absolute no play on the ball allowing him to catch it in stride picking up a couple more yards before going out of bounds. 

While Tom Brady doesn't have the greatest arm in the world him and Randy Moss made a great duo while Moss was in NE because of Brady's touch on the deep ball. You hear touch a lot with QB's but what that means is not just placement but trajectory. I hammer on this a lot but it is so important and very rarely gets talked about. QB's who throw flatter trajectory passes on intermediate to deep passes have more interceptions and more batted balls than those who have a better arching ball. Now the issue with this is some guys put too much arch on the ball which causes it to hang in the air letting DB's undercut the receiver. The reason I often mention Tom Brady when talking about Burrow is that Burrow is really good in that intermediate and deep game at putting just the right trajectory on the ball, even into contested catches, to give his WR the best chance to get the ball with the least risk involved.