The case for Joe Burrow

[Shake n Blake]

(01-05-2020, 06:41 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: The second round is going to be super interesting.

Whether we go WR, LB or OT will depend entirely on who's available. Honestly, all things equal, I am leaning towards OT. Hart has a much better chance of endangering Burrow's career than having to throw to Tate rather than Jefferson (this is assuming our #1 and #2 WRs remain Green and Boyd).

If we don't re-sign Green (for some reason), then WR may become a necessity in the 2nd round.

Which, in my opinion, is all the more reason why retaining Green is extremely important to this team's 2020 campaign.

Green has missed 29 games in the last 4 seasons and wants elite money. That's a really good reason not to sign him. Tis a shame that we don't use free agency.

Instead we have to fix everything via the draft and hope we retain an injury prone expensive WR because we simply can't address every need in the draft.

Meanwhile, we could be sitting on 100+ million to completely revitalize this roster around the new franchise QB...if this were a normal franchise.

[CJD]

(01-05-2020, 08:19 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Green has missed 29 games in the last 4 seasons and wants elite money. That's a really good reason not to sign him. Tis a shame that we don't use free agency.

Instead we have to fix everything via the draft and hope we retain an injury prone expensive WR because we simply can't address every need in the draft.

Meanwhile, we could be sitting on 100+ million to completely revitalize this roster around the new franchise QB...if this were a normal franchise.

You gotta work with what you have haha.

[Shake n Blake]

(01-05-2020, 08:40 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: You gotta work with what you have haha.

This damn team, I swear.

[Bengalholic]

(01-05-2020, 08:19 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Green has missed 29 games in the last 4 seasons and wants elite money. That's a really good reason not to sign him. Tis a shame that we don't use free agency.

Instead we have to fix everything via the draft and hope we retain an injury prone expensive WR because we simply can't address every need in the draft.

Meanwhile, we could be sitting on 100+ million to completely revitalize this roster around the new franchise QB...if this were a normal franchise.

Man, it's weird. I've rooted for and supported Andy and AJ since the day the were drafted. Now, I'm honestly just ready to move on from both. Nothing against either guy, it just feels like it's time, or very close to it at least.

[*Synric*]

(01-05-2020, 08:19 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Green has missed 29 games in the last 4 seasons and wants elite money. That's a really good reason not to sign him. Tis a shame that we don't use free agency.

Instead we have to fix everything via the draft and hope we retain an injury prone expensive WR because we simply can't address every need in the draft.

Meanwhile, we could be sitting on 100+ million to completely revitalize this roster around the new franchise QB...if this were a normal franchise.

I understand the miss this amount of games angle but an Ankle Sprain is not going to scare me from the talent that is AJ Green.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-05-2020, 08:52 PM)Synric Wrote: I understand the miss this amount of games angle but an Ankle Sprain is not going to scare me from the talent that is AJ Green.

Agreed. If he can play, get him out there.

[Shake n Blake]

(01-05-2020, 08:49 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Man, it's weird. I've rooted for and supported Andy and AJ since the day the were drafted. Now, I'm honestly just ready to move on from both. Nothing against either guy, it just feels like it's time, or very close to it at least.

It's like CP and Chad. Loved them, but sometimes the star players start to feel like part of the regime (Marvin, in their case), and you have to move on at some point.

I think we've crossed that bridge with Dalton/Green. Just sad that we never won a playoff game with those two. Or Carson/Chad for that matter. Or Blake/Pickens/Scott. Or Dillon. Ugh.

(01-05-2020, 08:52 PM)Synric Wrote: I understand the miss this amount of games angle but an Ankle Sprain is not going to scare me from the talent that is AJ Green.

It's not just one particular injury for me. It's the list of injuries, the age, and the price.

Combine all 3 and I just think a smart team would use that big money elsewhere.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-05-2020, 08:19 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Green has missed 29 games in the last 4 seasons and wants elite money. That's a really good reason not to sign him. Tis a shame that we don't use free agency.

Instead we have to fix everything via the draft and hope we retain an injury prone expensive WR because we simply can't address every need in the draft.

Meanwhile, we could be sitting on 100+ million to completely revitalize this roster around the new franchise QB...if this were a normal franchise.

I hear ya.  Financially, it just seems right to move on and bring in the new.  However, if you combine Joe Burrow's tight window throwing accuracy with AJ Green's contested catch ability. AJ Green could have the sort of late career year that would make him undoubtedly a first ballot HOF player.

[*Synric*]

(01-05-2020, 09:07 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: It's like CP and Chad. Loved them, but sometimes the star players start to feel like part of the regime, and you have to move on at some point.

I think we've crossed that bridge with Dalton/Green. Just sad that we never won a playoff game with those two. Or Carson/Chad for that matter. Or Blake/Pickens/Scott. Or Dillon. Ugh.


It's not just one particular injury for me. It's the list of injuries, the age, and the price.

Combine all 3 and I just think a smart team would use that big money elsewhere.

I get the arguement against I'm just pointing out his injuries haven't been severe that could damage his performance moving forward like ACL or Achilles....They are a Hamstring Tear which is the worse Turf Toe and an Ankle Sprain that looks like turned into a holdout.

[impactplaya]

Not resigning AJ Green just creates another void for the
Frugal front office to fill.
Remember when they let Sanu and Jones walk ...the front
Office solution was to sign Brandon LaFell.
A solid WR. But at the end of the day he was a bargain
Basement addition.
I would like to see Green finish a Bengal.
In Bengals history too many of their great WRs did not finish
As Bengals

TJ
Chad
Pickens
Jones

[Whatever]

(01-05-2020, 09:23 PM)Synric Wrote: I get the arguement against I'm just pointing out his injuries haven't been severe that could damage his performance moving forward like ACL or Achilles....They are a Hamstring Tear which is the worse Turf Toe and an Ankle Sprain that looks like turned into a holdout.

If an ankle sprain suffered in the first practice of camp is a season ender, then he can't physically play in the league anymore.  I can't think of a single player at any position that had their season ended by a sprained ankle in TC unless it was a bubble player a team was trying to stash on IR.

If he faked or milked his injury to get out of honoring the final year of his deal, then he's not a guy you want in your locker room, especially when you're rebuilding.  You don't want that rubbing off on guys like Burrow that you're trying to build around.

[*jason*]

(01-05-2020, 08:19 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Green has missed 29 games in the last 4 seasons and wants elite money. That's a really good reason not to sign him. Tis a shame that we don't use free agency.

Instead we have to fix everything via the draft and hope we retain an injury prone expensive WR because we simply can't address every need in the draft.

Meanwhile, we could be sitting on 100+ million to completely revitalize this roster around the new franchise QB...if this were a normal franchise.

It's all the worse when they pass on a DK Metcalf when he falls to them in favor of a blocking TE I'd never heard of...

[CJD]

(01-05-2020, 10:26 PM)jason Wrote: It's all the worse when they pass on a DK Metcalf when he falls to them in favor of a blocking TE I'd never heard of...

I remember being scared off of DK Metcalf because of his "combine pinwheel" where he was in a high percentile in 40 yard but absolutely TANKED the agility drills.

People started saying "he can only run straight. He can't turn at all."

Taking combine results seriously really should just never be done XD.



Just makes me feel even dumber for giving our coaching staff the benefit of the doubt regarding Sample...

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(01-05-2020, 10:26 PM)jason Wrote: It's all the worse when they pass on a DK Metcalf when he falls to them in favor of a blocking TE I'd never heard of...

...which leads me to the following: Cincinnati will take Joe Burrow with the first pick. Not even Mikey Boy will screw this up. That’s good. However, in rounds two through seven, do the Front Office and the coaches even have a plan? Based on what I saw in the 2019 Draft and the 2019 offseason, I say no. The only plan I see is to draft Joe Burrow and hope for the best — and hope is not a strategy. I can see Joe Burrow drafted followed by six “reaches,” “stretches,” “guys with potential,” and “future prospects.”

This scenario scares me because Joe Burrow deserves an honest shot to lead the Bengals out of the basement and if he’s surrounded by the same players it won’t happen. It scares me because we fans deserve a winner. Here’s what scares me most of all: The stadium lease in Hamilton County expires in 2026. I fear the Front Office looks at Joe Burrow as the last quarterback they’ll ever have to draft and they’re just kicking the can one more time until retirement and folding the team.

[CJD]

(01-06-2020, 12:22 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: ...which leads me to the following: Cincinnati will take Joe Burrow with the first pick.  Not even Mikey Boy will screw this up.  That’s good.  However, in rounds two through seven, do the Front Office and the coaches even have a plan?  Based on what I saw in the 2019 Draft and the 2019 offseason, I say no.  The only plan I see is to draft Joe Burrow and hope for the best — and hope is not a strategy.  I can see Joe Burrow drafted followed by six “reaches,” “stretches,” “guys with potential,” and “future prospects.”

This scenario scares me because Joe Burrow deserves an honest shot to lead the Bengals out of the basement and if he’s surrounded by the same players it won’t happen.  It scares me because we fans deserve a winner.  Here’s what scares me most of all: The stadium lease in Hamilton County expires in 2026.  I fear the Front Office looks at Joe Burrow as the last quarterback they’ll ever have to draft and they’re just kicking the can one more time until retirement and folding the team.

The 2019 NFL draft was bad, but it was mostly because of Sample and Finley.

Pratt was value at the slot we took him and has shown talent in the final ~6 games of the year.
Jordan has also shown the capability to start with a strong finish to the year.

Williams and Hudson were both considered high value picks that were just too good to pass up that late in the draft. They were made a little odd of selections due to the Bernard extension though...

The Wren pick is still kinda...jury out. He was a well regarded prospect but didn't really do much for us. But we need some DT depth with Billings possibly leaving this offseason, so it wasn't a bad position to draft.

And then Davis and Brown were late round picks who didn't make the team.

Honestly, if you make Sample DK Metcalf and Finley a blocking TE (I'm sure there was one available. Maybe even Sample!), the 2019 draft was a pretty good crop, in my opinion.

We'll see how Jonah Williams does next year before we can really judge it, even preliminarily.

I just hope Sample becomes SOMETHING in his NFL career haha.

[*jason*]

(01-06-2020, 12:43 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: The 2019 NFL draft was bad, but it was mostly because of Sample and Finley.

Pratt was value at the slot we took him and has shown talent in the final ~6 games of the year.
Jordan has also shown the capability to start with a strong finish to the year.

Williams and Hudson were both considered high value picks that were just too good to pass up that late in the draft. They were made a little odd of selections due to the Bernard extension though...

The Wren pick is still kinda...jury out. He was a well regarded prospect but didn't really do much for us. But we need some DT depth with Billings possibly leaving this offseason, so it wasn't a bad position to draft.

And then Davis and Brown were late round picks who didn't make the team.

Honestly, if you make Sample DK Metcalf and Finley a blocking TE (I'm sure there was one available. Maybe even Sample!), the 2019 draft was a pretty good crop, in my opinion.

We'll see how Jonah Williams does next year before we can really judge it, even preliminarily.

I just hope Sample becomes SOMETHING in his NFL career haha.

That's the thing though... Metcalf was projected as a first rounder, and had crazy measurables. He ends up falling, as someone always does, and we pass because WR somehow wasn't considered a need... Even though we seem to only have one reliable guy at the position. Even if AJ Green was a full go, how could they pass on that? Green, Boyd, Metcalf, and sometimes Ross... That's the best receiver core in the league. That's how good teams are built. BPA...

I wanted to believe in Sample. Just cause I'd never heard of him doesn't mean anything, but seriously... They passed in DK Metcalf, and Lord knows who else for Drew Sample?

[grampahol]

(01-05-2020, 05:29 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: I don't see how you could not take Burrow with where this franchise is.

Uhmm.. Have you ever checked out who owns the bengals? Hint: Rhymes with Dike Drown.. 

[*jason*]

(01-05-2020, 11:59 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I remember being scared off of DK Metcalf because of his "combine pinwheel" where he was in a high percentile in 40 yard but absolutely TANKED the agility drills.

People started saying "he can only run straight. He can't turn at all."

Taking combine results seriously really should just never be done XD.



Just makes me feel even dumber for giving our coaching staff the benefit of the doubt regarding Sample...

Yeah... He can only run straight by his defender, and go catch contested balls. But you're right, that was the knock on him. He's young though, and has improved his route running as the year went on. He's only scratched the surface. Russell Wilson has his first ever legit WR 1 in the making.

For what it's worth; I wanted to believe in Sample too. Hopefully he pans out.

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-05-2020, 04:05 PM)Joelist Wrote: A lot of draftniks are projecting Joe Burrow to us at the #1 overall pick. I wanted to look at the case for taking him in the most neutral (to current players) manner I could.

1) He does seem to possess skills we will need in the future at QB, such as pocket presence, football smarts (reading the defense and such) and work ethic. Mobility is good enough - not a jackrabbit but able to be mobile. He also seems to have excellent touch on his passes and ball placement is a strength.

2) In theory we would be able to save cap room because we would be putting a rookie seal salary on the rolls in exchange for a (in NFL terms) NFL veteran QB salary that is a bit under the average.

3) Possibility to generating some fan excitement for the franchise.

On the other hand, we might be well advised to redshirt Burrow if we take him until we stabilize the Offensive Line and know we have some targets for him to throw at. Now if we do invest in said issues in Free Agency and/or the Draft this situation kind of goes away.

I will say this - if we go Burrow (I was a Tua supporter until the injury) then I start to strongly consider going WR in Round 2 for a fast, tall WR whose scouting says can run proper routes and play the ball properly in the air (Tee Higgins or Laviska Shenault?).

The big IF before the draft is what FA signings are they able to execute.  They really need a stud FA LB to add to the LB corps and if a really strong SS is available, I go after them as well.  I think the draft will focus (or should) on the offensive line (RT, specifically) and defensive line (more help at DE, perhaps a swing DE/DT).  

Burrow is a layup at this point.  They will be selecting the #1 QB in the draft and the #1 overall QB generally starts...We might be the last ones to have sat the #1 overall pick at QB.

Should the Bengals be able to sign a veteran G like Thuney from the Pats (from Centerville, family still here), and Corey Littleton at LB from the Rams and then draft Burrow....you have the start of a pretty good offseason, and the fan base would be pretty energized.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-06-2020, 01:46 AM)jason Wrote: Yeah... He can only run straight by his defender, and go catch contested balls. But you're right, that was the knock on him. He's young though, and has improved his route running as the year went on. He's only scratched the surface. Russell Wilson has his first ever legit WR 1 in the making.

For what it's worth; I wanted to believe in Sample too. Hopefully he pans out.

I can't stand the guy, but this actually highlights Pete Carroll, or his OC (I think it is a Schottenhiemer), and their proper usage of the player to his talents.  He is the epitome of what could be an outstanding X receiver:  speed to burn, size, hands, toughness....Takes the top off the defense and also has great balance should he be able to shake a defender on a comeback route.