Trade Scenarios w/Pats

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-12-2020, 01:39 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I still think a 2nd is realistic.

Keep in mind the Titans got Ryan Tannehill and a 2019 6th rounder in exchange for a 2020 4th rounder and a 2019 7th rounder.

I don't think 1 year of Dalton (coming off a bad year) will ever get you a 2nd.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-13-2020, 08:25 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I don't know...Dalton has never had the kind of protection afforded Tom Brady.  If they draft a TE to pair with N'Keal Henry in year 2?  I would so love this for Dalton.  

Dalton had good OL’s his first few years. Never the best run blocking, but pass protection was always solid. Including one of the best LT’s in the league.

Also let me reiterate that I mostly root for the laundry. I don’t care if Dalton ever wins another game after leaving Cincinnati. I can say good for Zimmer or good for Whit, etc but it does very little for me. I care about one team, and one team only.

Some people here seem more excited about Dalton and his next team than they do about Burrow and our team. It’s weird to me...

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-13-2020, 09:00 AM)TJHoushmandzadehs Shiny Shoes Wrote: Is that for the player or the contract?

I don’t understand the question.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-13-2020, 09:08 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Keep in mind the Titans got Ryan Tannehill and a 2019 6th rounder in exchange for a 2020 4th rounder and a 2019 7th rounder.

I don't think 1 year of Dalton (coming off a bad year) will ever get you a 2nd.

Miami was stupid to trade a capable starting QB that cheap.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(01-13-2020, 11:52 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I don’t understand the question.

Is that valuation just based on him as a player or on the value of his contract?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-13-2020, 12:12 PM)TJHoushmandzadehs Shiny Shoes Wrote: Is that valuation just based on him as a player or on the value of his contract?

Well his contract is only one more year, so more him as a player. If other teams think it’s been more of a team in general problem than a Dalton problem the past few years I could see one giving up a mid 2nd rounder like NE’s.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-13-2020, 11:55 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Miami was stupid to trade a capable starting QB that cheap.

Sure, but the point remains that you're not getting a 2nd for 1 year of Dalton. Doubly so when he's coming off a bad year AND they had a public spat where Dalton expressed his desire to leave.

None of that adds up to a 2nd rounder. The Pats MIGHT offer a 3rd rounder since their picks are always late in the rounds, but you're probably looking at something like a 4th rounder.

Dalton wants to leave, and I highly doubt Mike Brown wants to pay $17.7m for a backup QB. There's not a ton of leverage.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-13-2020, 12:43 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Sure, but the point remains that you're not getting a 2nd for 1 year of Dalton. Doubly so when he's coming off a bad year AND they had a public spat where Dalton expressed his desire to leave.

None of that adds up to a 2nd rounder. The Pats MIGHT offer a 3rd rounder since their picks are always late in the rounds, but you're probably looking at something like a 4th rounder.

Dalton wants to leave, and I highly doubt Mike Brown wants to pay $17.7m for a backup QB. There's not a ton of leverage.

Sam Bradford brought back a 1st and another conditional pick that could have been as high as a 2nd.

Dalton is far better than Bradford. If a team is desperate enough they’ll overpay. And a 2nd round pick is not going to kill a team like the Patriots.

[*bfine32*]

Why would Pats trade for Andy when they can get someone like Mariota for free?

I also think they're pretty high on the Stidham kid.

[CornerBlitz]

(01-13-2020, 02:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why would Pats trade for Andy when they can get someone like Mariota for free?

I also think they're pretty high on the Stidham kid.

I think this just about sums it up for me.  Dalton might be slightly better than Mariota but the fact remains he's been pretty bad as of late and is owed 17 million. Pats have other options. 

[XenoMorph]

(01-11-2020, 07:37 PM)samhain Wrote: Something I don't understand: will the Bengals likely have to eat any of Andy's remaining contract if a trade is made?  Are the Bengals likely to retain all of what they owe him in 2020?  Just not sure.

No Daltons contract was front loaded there hasnt been any dead money for a couple years now.

[XenoMorph]

(01-13-2020, 12:43 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Sure, but the point remains that you're not getting a 2nd for 1 year of Dalton. Doubly so when he's coming off a bad year AND they had a public spat where Dalton expressed his desire to leave.

None of that adds up to a 2nd rounder. The Pats MIGHT offer a 3rd rounder since their picks are always late in the rounds, but you're probably looking at something like a 4th rounder.

Dalton wants to leave, and I highly doubt Mike Brown wants to pay $17.7m for a backup QB. There's not a ton of leverage.

unless a team doesnt want to deal with dalton on the free market  or give him the chance to pick somewhere else...  17 mil for  a starting QB isnt bad this day and age.  outside of that i think teams will play chicken with us releasing him which we will probly do early in the process if there is no trade interest.

[coachmcneil71]

(01-13-2020, 02:05 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Sam Bradford brought back a 1st and another conditional pick that could have been as high as a 2nd.

Dalton is far better than Bradford. If a team is desperate enough they’ll overpay. And a 2nd round pick is not going to kill a team like the Patriots.

Puff puff give.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-13-2020, 03:40 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Puff puff give.

Cute. I literally provided an example from a few years ago of a far worse QB bringing back a package that included a 1st round pick. It’s a fact. Not just my opinion, which is all you are presenting on the matter.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-12-2020, 01:39 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I still think a 2nd is realistic.

Why would someone want to offer a 2nd rounder when they know that the Bengals very likely want to move on from him and know his cap hit is $17.7 mill whether released or traded?

Look at the Tannehill deal for something comparable to what the Bengals would likely have to settle for Dalton:
Titans got Tannehill and a 6th round pick in exchange for their 2020 4th and 2019 7th rounder.
Tannehill's contract was also negotiated down as part of the agreement of the trade.

As others have said, I think the Bengals would get, at best, a 3rd rounder. Probably more like a 4th rounder.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-13-2020, 03:55 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Why would someone want to offer a 2nd rounder when they know that the Bengals very likely want to move on from him and know his cap hit is $17.7 mill whether released or traded?

Look at the Tannehill deal for something comparable to what the Bengals would likely have to settle for Dalton:
Titans got Tannehill and a 6th round pick in exchange for their 2020 4th and 2019 7th rounder.
Tannehill's contract was also negotiated down as part of the agreement of the trade.

As others have said, I think the Bengals would get, at best, a 3rd rounder. Probably more like a 4th rounder.

Mike Brown straight up came out and said “we’re not in the business of making other teams better.”

If someone wants Dalton, I don’t see Mike trading him for peanuts. Period. All we can do is wait and see at this point though. A lot can happen between now and this summer.

[*jason*]

(01-13-2020, 04:01 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Mike Brown straight up came out and said “we’re not in the business of making other teams better.”

If someone wants Dalton, I don’t see Mike trading him for peanuts. Period. All we can do is wait and see at this point though. A lot can happen between now and this summer.

He's barely in the business of making his own team better.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(01-13-2020, 12:32 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Well his contract is only one more year, so more him as a player. If other teams think it’s been more of a team in general problem than a Dalton problem the past few years I could see one giving up a mid 2nd rounder like NE’s.

The thing is you need to factor in the contract as well as the player. You trade contracts as much as players. The same player with one year left at $18m will not command as much as big a trade return as the same player under a 3 year deal for $18m and I'm not sure teams will give up a 2nd rounder for just one year of Dalton at $18m.

Maybe they will. Maybe teams will think he'll get a big deal in 2021 if he doesn't re-sign and that you'll get a 3rd round compensatory for him anyway (assuming that remains in the new collective bargaining structure)? Maybe a deal gets made whereby they get a window to negotiate with Dalton. I expect Andy would welcome that security of a team committing to him long term and he'd be cheaper now than after having proved it for the new team so a sign and extend could make sense for both sides. I just can't see that big a market for Dalton to start a bidding war (especially when teams know we want to offload him) and I don't want to set myself up for additional disappointment - we get enough as Bengals fans already. An extra second would certainly be massive for the Bengals. The last window was opened not just by drafting Andy and AJ but by the extra picks we received for trading Palmer. 

[*bfine32*]

(01-13-2020, 03:53 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Cute. I literally provided an example from a few years ago of a far worse QB bringing back a package that included a 1st round pick. It’s a fact. Not just my opinion, which is all you are presenting on the matter.

Bradford was 5 years younger than Andy when this trade happened and coming off a much better season. With Bradford the Vikings were paying for the future. Bradford was/is not much worse than Andy, he just cannot stay healthy.

[Luvnit2]

(01-13-2020, 03:55 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Why would someone want to offer a 2nd rounder when they know that the Bengals very likely want to move on from him and know his cap hit is $17.7 mill whether released or traded?

Look at the Tannehill deal for something comparable to what the Bengals would likely have to settle for Dalton:
Titans got Tannehill and a 6th round pick in exchange for their 2020 4th and 2019 7th rounder.
Tannehill's contract was also negotiated down as part of the agreement of the trade.

As others have said, I think the Bengals would get, at best, a 3rd rounder. Probably more like a 4th rounder.

Tannehill was not a starting QB for 9 years in the NFL, 5 years he led his team to the playoffs so not a great comparison in my opinion