Why not keep Andy as a backup?

[fredtoast]

(04-26-2020, 03:06 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: Yes, you guys are making good points about how it would be nice to keep him around. However, those arguments fail to acknowledge our cap situation.

Rookie draft pool (amount to sign our picks) is $11.87 million, but those 7 players will displace 7 other players already on the roster.  I think league minimum salary is $610,000.  So even if the seven players replaced are the 7 lowest players currently on the roster that is $4.27 million.  This means the real cap space needed is about $7.6 million.  We currently have $8.95 million cap space.

[Bengalstripes9]

(04-26-2020, 03:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Rookie draft pool (amount to sign our picks) is $11.87 million, but those 7 players will displace 7 other players already on the roster.  I think league minimum salary is $610,000.  So even if the seven players replaced are the 7 lowest players currently on the roster that is $4.27 million.  This means the real cap space needed is about $7.6 million.  We currently have $8.95 million cap space.

I guess I'm not convinced. We need to keep 2 extra players this year per the new CBA. They always leave a little room for injuries. They need more room to extend Mixon and AJ--which by all accounts they intend to do. 

Everything I've heard in terms of our cap space up to this point has said we need to move Dalton to afford our draft picks and the extensions for guys like Mixon and Green. 

I don't like the idea of cutting depth at other positions to make room for Andy, as much as I like and respect him. The season is longer. We'll need the depth.

I'm not going to spend the time to research our cap space and break down our final roster by salary--I'll leave that up to one of you guys. But yeah. That's where I'm at. We'll see what happens I guess.

AJ has way more value than Dalton. They have similar salaries. I say keep AJ. Shawn Williams is valuable depth. Gio is a great rotational back. I don't want to lose any of these guys. Dalton is the only one that seems expendable to me.

[*bfine32*]

(04-26-2020, 01:15 PM)McC Wrote: Right.  You want to have a QB competition between the guy we know all too well and have abundant evidence on to prove he ain't the guy and the future of the franchise and I'm the one losing it.  Okay, now say another goofy thing. 

You really don't need to insult folks just because you disagree with their point. Pretty sure one of the reasons I was sent on vacation was in this very thread someone of importance said the idea was stupid and I took exception. I and others have given sound reasons to hang on to Andy but to just dismiss them as "stupid" or "goofy" really isn't called for and does nothing to generate rational discussion. 

[*Nately120*]

(04-26-2020, 03:11 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: But Dalton would not be working on mechanics and the technical side of playing QB with Burrow, that’s not a backups job. This idea that Joe will need to be taught how to be a pro, or read defenses, make adjustments, etc is really weird to me. These are some of Burrow’s biggest strengths. He’s not some 21 year old raw physical freak that doesn’t really understand all the different aspects of playing QB. Burrow is good to go. He’s 23 already, is cerebral as hell, a crazy hard worker, the son of a coach, and will be surrounded by QB coaches in this team. He’ll be fine without the tutelage of Andy Dalton.

I don't want him to be fine, I want him to be awesome.  I get the rationale behind tossing Dalton, but at the same time I can easily picture a scenario where we are going into 2021 hoping ZT was the reason Burrow looked like he was drowning out there in 2020.

[Luvnit2]

(04-26-2020, 02:15 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Anyone that wants to keep a 17 million dollar backup QB is not allowed to say a single word about the OL when we’re unable to sign guys other teams cut that would be clear upgrades.

We can’t afford him. Period. /thread

Not allowed. What a foolish statement!!!

Find us that great OL, then cut him. But until you have that great OL ready to sign, your statement is foolish.

[masonbengals fan]

Cue Bob Seger singing "Turn the page"

[*Nately120*]

(04-26-2020, 03:15 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Mahomes and Jackson were not #1 picks coming off the best college season of all time. But hey, hell with context right? All situations are exactly the same!

Andy Reid or John Harbaugh > ZT

[*bfine32*]

(04-26-2020, 03:06 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: Which is what I keep coming back to. I haven't heard one legit argument on how we can possibly afford Dalton. 

Yes, you guys are making good points about how it would be nice to keep him around. However, those arguments fail to acknowledge our cap situation.

You haven't? Many have been presented:

Cut Hart and Williams

Hell, cutting some TE named Cethan Carter and Ales Redmond gets us there

Sign AJ to a long term and spread out the cap

Make a deal with Andy to extend his contract and spread out his Cap and give him all his loot with the agreement we'll shop him next year when the market is better

Hell cutting Alex Erikson save us $2 Mil

All of these ideas by us folks who don't get paid to find ways to message the cap

The only counter we're left with is "we can't afford him" and it's been proven wrong

[fredtoast]

(04-26-2020, 03:48 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: Everything I've heard in terms of our cap space up to this point has said we need to move Dalton to afford our draft picks and the extensions for guys like Mixon and Green. 

I hope we don't give Green a big extension.  We need to see if he can play.  But if we did give him an extension it is possible we could actually lower his cap hit this year.

I'd like to extend Mixon but it is not a necessity.

(04-26-2020, 03:48 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: I don't like the idea of cutting depth at other positions to make room for Andy, as much as I like and respect him. The season is longer. We'll need the depth.

We have to cut guys to keep our draft picks anyway.  Makes no difference if we keep Dalton or not.

[fortyyearfan]

(01-19-2020, 08:44 PM)bfine32 Wrote: A few threads have been derailed because this has become the topic of discussion. I'm of the opinion that keeping Andy around to mentor the new franchise QB can pay dividends far beyond the expensive backup QB Mikey would have to pay for next year.

If we would have brought in another vet (Rivers, Cam, Mariota, Winston< Bridgewater....) I'd want to part with AD, but we are going with a rookie on a rookie contract, so it makes sense to keep him.

I've provided some choices and feel free to vote and expound. But what is your #1 reason not to keep Andy.

(mad not made)

All of that would depend greatly on if Andy would be willing to take less money to stay here as his monster contract is a big no to the brown family.If I were him I would want to stay where I know my way around this team and He is probably going to be able to play as a starter here some.He has already make millions and millions and if I were him I would stay here where you already know the place.To go anywhere else He is not going to win a super bowl anywhere and I would not allow my ego to control me.Stay here,you already have a contract,why move your family somewhere they do not like just to play this game,when you can play here.Thats my opinion,you have enough money and besides where ever you go they are going to offer you much less money.

[Bengalstripes9]

(04-26-2020, 04:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You haven't? Many have been presented:

Cut Hart and Williams

Hell, cutting some TE named Cethan Carter and Ales Redmond gets us there

Sign AJ to a long term and spread out the cap

Make a deal with Andy to extend his contract and spread out his Cap and give him all his loot with the agreement we'll shop him next year when the market is better

Hell cutting Alex Erikson save us $2 Mil

All of these ideas by us folks who don't get paid to find ways to message the cap

The only counter we're left with is "we can't afford him" and it's been proven wrong

I don’t like the idea of cutting Williams as we need depth in the secondary. There’s one extra game to play and our secondary is routinely hit with injuries. Cutting Williams would hurt the team.

Cutting Hart would hurt the team. We don’t have much depth at tackle. We have two guys fighting for that right tackle spot. One’s a backup the other a starter. Cutting one of those guys leaves a hole at backup right tackle.

We need bodies at wide receiver and returner. Alex Erickson can play the slot and does a great job returning. He deserves a shot at a spot.

I just don't see there being room. We need to sign our draft picks prior to training camp. Those draft picks need to earn a spot on the roster. We need bodies going into camp.

They can possibly work some magic with their extensions to free up cap space this year, but will it be enough?

I’m just trying to be realistic here. I don’t disagree with you that Andy has value and is nice insurance. It would be nice to have him help take pressure off Burrow early and help bring him along.

[Bengalstripes9]

(04-26-2020, 04:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I hope we don't give Green a big extension.  We need to see if he can play.  But if we did give him an extension it is possible we could actually lower his cap hit this year.

I'd like to extend Mixon but it is not a necessity.



We have to cut guys to keep our draft picks anyway.  Makes no difference if we keep Dalton or not.

I’d like a 3 year extension for Green. He’s a baller. He makes our team better. You saw the result of not having him on the field the last 24 games... we were something like 5-2 before he got injured. I’d rather give 17.7 mil to a player that will likely play and win games for us than give that money to a backup QB, if given the choice. AJ will make this offense better.


We do have to cut players. But first we need to sign our draft picks prior to training camp, then we cut players that get beat out by said draft picks.

[Luvnit2]

(04-26-2020, 04:21 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: I don’t like the idea of cutting Williams as we need depth in the secondary. There’s one extra game to play and our secondary is routinely hit with injuries. Cutting Williams would hurt the team.

Cutting Hart would hurt the team. We don’t have much depth at tackle. We have two guys fighting for that right tackle spot. One’s a backup the other a starter. Cutting one of those guys leaves a hole at backup right tackle.

We need bodies at wide receiver and returner. Alex Erickson can play the slot and does a great job returning. He deserves a shot at a spot.

I just don't see there being room. We need to sign our draft picks prior to training camp. Those draft picks need to earn a spot on the roster. We need bodies going into camp.

They can possibly work some magic with their extensions to free up cap space this year, but will it be enough?

I’m just trying to be realistic here. I don’t disagree with you that Andy has value and is nice insurance. It would be nice to have him help take pressure off Burrow early and help bring him along.

I think it is interesting you think Williams (may not start) is more valuable than Dalton who could start in 2020. WE have depth at safety now and we also drafted some smallish LB's that could play safety as well.

But the point is there a few guys (GIO) or Erickson who could ease the cap situation to get us through TC. If we find some great FA OL, ten we cut AD, but why cut him prior to having someone in the building.

We could save almost 8 million by cutting Gio and Shaun Williams

[Bengalstripes9]

(04-26-2020, 04:34 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I think it is interesting you think Williams (may not start) is more valuable than Dalton who could start in 2020. WE have depth at safety now and we also drafted some smallish LB's that could play safety as well.

But the point is there a few guys (GIO) or Erickson who could ease the cap situation to get us through TC. If we find some great FA OL, ten we cut AD, but why cut him prior to having someone in the building.

I just don’t like the idea of losing depth prior to training camp. Erickson is one maybe i give you. But then our depth at returner is gone.

I don’t understand people not liking Geo. He’s been a great back for us. He deserved an extension in my opinion. He’s reliable. He can make plays in the pass and run game. He can do a decent job blocking.

Williams. Again, proven safety. Id rather have proven depth than inexperienced depth. But if a young guy is close in playing ability and costs less, maybe that makes sense.

I feel like a broken record here. I think it’s smart to have depth. Injuries will happen. Gutting our depth prior to training camp to make room for one player doesn’t give me a peaceful easy feeling. But if they can make it work to keep Dalton and not sacrifice depth, by all means.

[Luvnit2]

(04-26-2020, 04:49 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: I just don’t like the idea of losing depth prior to training camp. Erickson is one maybe i give you. But then our depth at returner is gone.

I don’t understand people not liking Geo. He’s been a great back for us. He deserved an extension in my opinion. He’s reliable. He can make plays in the pass and run game. He can do a decent job blocking.

Williams. Again, proven safety. Id rather have proven depth than inexperienced depth. But if a young guy is close in playing ability and costs less, maybe that makes sense.

I feel like a broken record here. I think it’s smart to have depth. Injuries will happen. Gutting our depth prior to training camp to make room for one player doesn’t give me a peaceful easy feeling. But if they can make it work to keep Dalton and not sacrifice depth, by all means.

Fair enough, who is your great depth at QB if Dalton is gone? Do you agree the QB position is the most important?

[McC]

(04-26-2020, 03:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You really don't need to insult folks just because you disagree with their point. Pretty sure one of the reasons I was sent on vacation was in this very thread someone of importance said the idea was stupid and I took exception. I and others have given sound reasons to hang on to Andy but to just dismiss them as "stupid" or "goofy" really isn't called for and does nothing to generate rational discussion. 

These reasons are all negated by one number---17.7 million. NO ONE would ever pay a backup that amount when cutting him costs nothing.  NO ONE.

[fredtoast]

(04-26-2020, 04:29 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: I’d like a 3 year extension for Green. He’s a baller. He makes our team better. You saw the result of not having him on the field the last 24 games... we were something like 5-2 before he got injured. 

I agree Green WAS a baller.  We have no idea what he can do now or if he will even be able to stay on the field.  It would be crazy to give him a big extension.

BTW Bengals went 5-4 with Green in 2018, but his injury was not the only reason Bengals tanked second half of the season.  Bengals were 5-5 before Dalton got injured.

[*bfine32*]

(04-26-2020, 05:03 PM)McC Wrote: These reasons are all negated by one number---17.7 million. NO ONE would ever pay a backup that amount when cutting him costs nothing.  NO ONE.

Do the NY Giants count as ANY ONE? 

[McC]

(04-26-2020, 05:25 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Do the NY Giants count as ANY ONE? 

Not the same.  Eli went into the season as the starter.  And the Giants knew they were going to be crap.  Had they just finished spending 150 mil in FA?

Find a comparable situation, not one that is not even close.

Oh and, how many SBs did Andy win?

[fredtoast]

(04-26-2020, 05:03 PM)McC Wrote: These reasons are all negated by one number---17.7 million. NO ONE would ever pay a backup that amount when cutting him costs nothing.  NO ONE.

New York Giants did it just last year.

And the Saints paid Teddy Bridgewater $7.5 million to back up Drew Brees who was making $23 million.  That is a hell of a lot more than Dalton and Burrow would cost this year.