Do we really need a veteran QB?

[*PhilHos*]

Be it Dalton or a free agent QB, do we really need a veteran QB?

I get the rationale of wanting to have a veteran to mentor Burrow and/or have someone who can come in and HOPEFULLY not lose us games. But, is that really a need? With Taylor and Van Pelt being former NFL QBs, do we really need that mentor to be a current player?

I'm not saying we should NOT have a veteran QB, but, in terms of Burrow's growth, what difference would having Dalton as backup QB vs Finley really make?

Personally, as much as I like Dalton, I'd rather use his salary to fix other areas of need and if that means we roll with Finley as backup QB, so be it.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-22-2020, 02:38 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Be it Dalton or a free agent QB, do we really need a veteran QB?

I get the rationale of wanting to have a veteran to mentor Burrow and/or have someone who can come in and HOPEFULLY not lose us games. But, is that really a need? With Taylor and Van Pelt being former NFL QBs, do we really need that mentor to be a current player?

I'm not saying we should NOT have a veteran QB, but, in terms of Burrow's growth, what difference would having Dalton as backup QB vs Finley really make?

Personally, as much as I like Dalton, I'd rather use his salary to fix other areas of need and if that means we roll with Finley as backup QB, so be it.

Finley doesn't have enough upside to keep in my opinion. Dolegala actually has a good arm, I would keep this guy around, cut Finley, trade Dalton and bring in a cheaper vet QB for competition at the backup spot and as insurance.

[Sled21]

Dalton is still capable of being a starter in this league, and wants to be a starter, so I don't think he is a good prospect to be a backup. We need someone (think Jon Kitna) who is comfortable in being the backup/mentor QB, who can come in and not lose games, but is willing to help the young starter instead of banging for his job. Think Ryan Fitzpatrick..... smart enough to know he can play many more years from the sideline.

[George Cantstandya]

Bring in Josh McCown if he doesn't retire. He was never an amazing QB but I think he could offer a lot as a mentor since he has been around so long and he would be an okay backup in an emergency. Plus he would probably be cheap. He was decent in the game against the Seahawks when Wentz went down. My guess is he retires though.

[XenoMorph]

(01-22-2020, 02:38 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Be it Dalton or a free agent QB, do we really need a veteran QB?

I get the rationale of wanting to have a veteran to mentor Burrow and/or have someone who can come in and HOPEFULLY not lose us games. But, is that really a need? With Taylor and Van Pelt being former NFL QBs, do we really need that mentor to be a current player?

I'm not saying we should NOT have a veteran QB, but, in terms of Burrow's growth, what difference would having Dalton as backup QB vs Finley really make?

Personally, as much as I like Dalton, I'd rather use his salary to fix other areas of need and if that means we roll with Finley as backup QB, so be it.

finley or any QB that hasn't started has little to offer our new QB... need someone with a little experience.

[*PhilHos*]

(01-22-2020, 02:42 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Finley doesn't have enough upside to keep in my opinion. Dolegala actually has a good arm, I would keep this guy around, cut Finley, trade Dalton and bring in a cheaper vet QB for competition at the backup spot and as insurance.

This would not be a bad thing.

(01-22-2020, 02:42 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Dalton is still capable of being a starter in this league, and wants to be a starter, so I don't think he is a good prospect to be a backup. We need someone (think Jon Kitna) who is comfortable in being the backup/mentor QB, who can come in and not lose games, but is willing to help the young starter instead of banging for his job. Think Ryan Fitzpatrick..... smart enough to know he can play many more years from the sideline.

The question I'm asking, is if we NEED a backup/mentor QB. Don't get me wrong, I think we SHOULD have a veteran backup QB. But, do we NEED it? If it didn't happen, for whatever reason, how bad would that be or would it not be bad at all?

[*ochocincos*]

(01-22-2020, 02:42 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Finley doesn't have enough upside to keep in my opinion. Dolegala actually has a good arm, I would keep this guy around, cut Finley, trade Dalton and bring in a cheaper vet QB for competition at the backup spot and as insurance.

I never thought having a cannon of an arm was necessary, but when you are so limited in your arm strength like Finley is, it really does limit what your offense can execute effectively.

With that said, I don't think Taylor runs a great WCO to cater to Finley's toolset. I think Finley would be better if the playcalling catered even more to flats, curls, and slants.

[Luvnit2]

We have 3 vets under contract right now (2 will be 2nd year players) who know our playbook.

We can have a total QB spend of around 9 million (cap money) in 2020 versus the 18 million we spend in 2019. So, we could have an extra 9 million to spend, ot only in 2020, but also 2021.

It makes sense let the QB coach be the mentor for Burrow and the young QB's. Trade AD and get something for 2020 or possibly 2021 with draft pick(s).

We have a lot of holes, why not invest in players who can start and help JB win immediately?

No, we do not need a vet (old) QB to back up JB.

[Au165]

I believe we will bring in a journeyman FA if we trade Dalton who will "compete" with Finley during the preseason for the back up role but in reality he is just there as a tutor to Burrow. There is a lot more to being a pro in the NFL than just knowing the playbook so having a guy who has been around for 5+ years is a big deal for a rookie.

[grampahol]

I think the term "mentor" is far over rated. It's not as if Burrow or any QB has little to no knowledge of how to play the position. I wish someone could come up with a definitive answer to exactly what this "mentor" is supposed to do. I think the only requirement is having a viable backup in case of injury. Burrow or any other rookie starter either gets "it" or they don't. With several former QB's on the coaching staff alone I don't really see the need for a backup "mentor".. On the other hand we can toss this mythical mentor word around all day and pretend he'll be some kind of sage advisor with knowledge nobody else could ever possibly impart to Joe.. I get it..mentor sounds like a great idea, but in reality it's just another term we toss around to make it appear they have all the answers nobody else is even remotely capable of having.

[*ochocincos*]

I don't think a veteran QB is a "need" exactly, as I don't think Burrow really needs mentorship really on anything.
He's a Day 1 starter to me.
I also don't think the Bengals will magically be a legit playoff contender for 2020, so that further reduces the need for a proven vet.

With that said, I could see a guy like Case Keenum providing value.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-22-2020, 03:18 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I never thought having a cannon of an arm was necessary, but when you are so limited in your arm strength like Finley is, it really does limit what your offense can execute effectively.

With that said, I don't think Taylor runs a great WCO to cater to Finley's toolset. I think Finley would be better if the playcalling catered even more to flats, curls, and slants.

Agreed, which is also a head scratcher on why Taylor moved up to get Finley in the first place.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-22-2020, 03:53 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't think a veteran QB is a "need" exactly, as I don't think Burrow really needs mentorship really on anything.
He's a Day 1 starter to me.
I also don't think the Bengals will magically be a legit playoff contender for 2020, so that further reduces the need for a proven vet.

With that said, I could see a guy like Case Keenum providing value.

Would be all for Keenum at the right price.

[bengals1969]

(01-22-2020, 04:30 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Would be all for Keenum at the right price.

Well sure, we need a backup to Burrow.  Probably a vet.  More importantly we need the best QB coach on the market.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-22-2020, 04:43 PM)bengals1969 Wrote: Well sure, we need a backup to Burrow.  Probably a vet.  More importantly we need the best QB coach on the market.

Van Pelt is a good QB coach and he is already here.

[KillerGoose]

(01-22-2020, 02:42 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Dalton is still capable of being a starter in this league, and wants to be a starter, so I don't think he is a good prospect to be a backup. We need someone (think Jon Kitna) who is comfortable in being the backup/mentor QB, who can come in and not lose games, but is willing to help the young starter instead of banging for his job. Think Ryan Fitzpatrick..... smart enough to know he can play many more years from the sideline.

Fitzpatrick would be great if the dude wasn't cursed. Since 2013, every QB he has been a backup for has become injured and he has had to step in. Makes me nervous for Burrow.

[Wes Mantooth]

Say Burrow has to miss a couple games and we're in the hunt. Do you really want your entire season and playoffs riding on Ryan Finley?

Do you want to pay Dalton 18 mil to backup? No, of course not. But you sure as hell can find a much better option than Finley. Capable vets can be had for under 5 mil.

Why risk it, when you can spend about 1-2% of your cap on legitimate NFL QB? Cuz Ryan Finley is not. Frankly, I don't think he has any place in this league.

Go get yourself a Ryan Fitzpatrick or Sam Bradford or Blake Bortles for like 3mil per. Why the heck not?

[Au165]

(01-22-2020, 03:39 PM)grampahol Wrote: I think the term "mentor" is far over rated. It's not as if Burrow or any QB has little to no knowledge of how to play the position. I wish someone could come up with a definitive answer to exactly what this "mentor" is supposed to do. I think the only requirement is having a viable backup in case of injury. Burrow or any other rookie starter either gets "it" or they don't. With several former QB's on the coaching staff alone I don't really see the need for a backup "mentor".. On the other hand we can toss this mythical mentor word around all day and pretend he'll be some kind of sage advisor with knowledge nobody else could ever possibly impart to Joe.. I get it..mentor sounds like a great idea, but in reality it's just another term we toss around to make it appear they have all the answers nobody else is even remotely capable of having.

Usually how it works is that back ups are veterans for young guys, and young guys for veterans. The reason they do it is the veteran essentially shows the younger guy how to prepare in the NFL to play QB. In the case of the veteran back up they usually act like another coach, not on the sideline as much (This does happen) but during the week in preparation during film review. They often will point out coverage they had seen that coordinator run in the past, or they will add in ideas or concepts they think may work. Film review often works in a Q&A format, the veteran will "challenge" a younger guys answer to a QB coach's question and essentially force the younger guy to work through his reasoning. 

To your point, it's the exact opposite. Most people don't understand what a veteran QB does for a younger QB so they assume they are pointless. There is a lot of value in having a guy who has played in the NFL (Even if they haven't played a lot of games) because they are invaluable in preparing for games. If you look at every rookie starter the last couple years the teams usually have a guy with 5ish+ years experience to back them up, that is by design. 

Now all that said, I think they bring a veteran in for the off season and pre season then go with Finley in the end because of the roster limitations that exist with keeping QBs. This means it will be extra important for Burrow to latch on with Van Pelt, but this is kind of unique because Brady was running the film review and game planning similar to how the Saints did so Burrow is in a unique position of kind of already preparing like a pro. 

[*Nately120*]

Everything this team does should be based around Burrow being on the field. Ryan Finley is 25 years old and stinks at QB, Burrow is 23 and should be really good at being QB. Finley being on the bench isn't going to help Burrow nearly as much as getting an actual system veteran QB who can help mentor and coach Burrow...something that will help when Burrow is on the field.

If the Bengals are going to be successful it's all about having Burrow on the field and making sure everything is designed to help him. Finley being on the team only helps us if Burrow isn't on the field (which is bad) and if Finley is better than the backup we get (which is unlikely). Getting a vet is investing in Burrow, keeping Finley is investing in a scenario we don't want to be in.

[Weazzel80]

I think we should just sink or swim with Burrow. We're incredibly fortunate to be able to draft such an NFL ready prospect at the QB position.

We should, however, get a different backup than Finley; but I don't view backup QB as a pressing need right now. I would much rather have more depth at other positions.