Jordan love senior bowl

[Jpoore]

(02-01-2020, 08:48 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Hey, if the QB is going to be a star in the NFL, he should have been able to build some chemistry with those guys coming up the year before they became starters.  It's not like they were all complete strangers, that met at kickoff of the first game of the season..

Any qb has to have some sort of talent around him. He had none. It’s why along with coaching there was such a precipitous drop off from 18-19

[*ochocincos*]

(02-03-2020, 07:54 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Any qb has to have some sort of talent around him. He had none. It’s why along with coaching there was such a precipitous drop off from 18-19

People said the same thing about Josh Allen coming out of Wyoming.
Look at his production so far through 2 years in BUF:

56.3% completion percentage, 5163 yards, 30 TDs, 21 INTs.

His saving grace has been as a runner, in which he's had 1141 yards and 17 TDs.

I think Love will be a better passer than Allen but I think he won't be as good of a runner.

It's ok to be excited for Love's potential but also be very worried about how raw he is and knowing that there's no guarantee he becomes a good NFL QB. That's the risk some team will have to take.

[Au165]

(02-03-2020, 11:48 AM)ochocincos Wrote: People said the same thing about Josh Allen coming out of Wyoming.
Look at his production so far through 2 years in BUF:

56.3% completion percentage, 5163 yards, 30 TDs, 21 INTs.

His saving grace has been as a runner, in which he's had 1141 yards and 17 TDs.

I think Love will be a better passer than Allen but I think he won't be as good of a runner.

It's ok to be excited for Love's potential but also be very worried about how raw he is and knowing that there's no guarantee he becomes a good NFL QB. That's the risk some team will have to take.

Josh Freeman is my comp for Love and I think people should really go back and read old scouting reports on Freeman and see how similar they are outside of Freeman being massive. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-03-2020, 07:54 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Any qb has to have some sort of talent around him. He had none. It’s why along with coaching there was such a precipitous drop off from 18-19

Yes, he just needs two things to succeed; a strong supporting cast and good coaching.

But, other than that he “elevates others.” Seems like what you’re describing is others elevate him.

[Jpoore]

(02-03-2020, 04:41 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Yes, he just needs two things to succeed; a strong supporting cast and good coaching.

But, other than that he “elevates others.” Seems like what you’re describing is others elevate him.

No he can elevate talent. Case In point if pat mahomes had 3 Alex Ericssksons on his team what is he doing? Not that much.

[Jpoore]

(02-03-2020, 11:48 AM)ochocincos Wrote: People said the same thing about Josh Allen coming out of Wyoming.
Look at his production so far through 2 years in BUF:

56.3% completion percentage, 5163 yards, 30 TDs, 21 INTs.

His saving grace has been as a runner, in which he's had 1141 yards and 17 TDs.

I think Love will be a better passer than Allen but I think he won't be as good of a runner.

It's ok to be excited for Love's potential but also be very worried about how raw he is and knowing that there's no guarantee he becomes a good NFL QB. That's the risk some team will have to take.

His floor to me is very very high. To me it’s cousins..... if that’s ur flor? I think every single qb outside of tua he’s a lower floor. And his upside is top qb in nfl. I’m not taking that risk rd1. But rd2? All day every day.

(02-03-2020, 12:24 PM)Au165 Wrote: Josh Freeman is my comp for Love and I think people should really go back and read old scouting reports on Freeman and see how similar they are outside of Freeman being massive. 

I just don’t like that comp that much. I think poor mans mahomes is better.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-03-2020, 09:41 PM)Jpoore Wrote: No he can elevate talent. Case In point if pat mahomes had 3 Alex Ericssksons on his team what is he doing? Not that much.

What talent did he elevate?

[*ochocincos*]

(02-03-2020, 09:48 PM)Jpoore Wrote: His floor  to me is very very high. To me it’s cousins..... if that’s ur flor? I think every single qb outside of tua he’s a lower floor. And his upside is top qb in nfl. I’m not taking that risk rd1. But rd2? All day every day.

I just don’t like that comp that much. I think poor mans mahomes is better.

I don't see Love having a high floor. I think having a high floor means a safe pick. There's nothing safe about him right now, but the potential is there.
I still compare him to Josh Allen in regards to floor and ceiling.

Love makes sense as a Rd 2 QB, as you said. If a team with an established veteran (like GB or NO) liked him enough to gamble on turning that potential into reality, I could even see him late Rd 1. I don't want him as a Bengal because I don't have confidence the Bengals can adequately groom a QB. We gave them optimism last offseason, but after watching how abysmal Finley was (whom they traded up for), it'd be an uphill climb for any QB who isn't NFL-ready already.

[Au165]

(02-04-2020, 10:49 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't see Love having a high floor. I think having a high floor means a safe pick. There's nothing safe about him right now, but the potential is there.
I still compare him to Josh Allen in regards to floor and ceiling.

Love makes sense as a Rd 2 QB, as you said. If a team with an established veteran (like GB or NO) liked him enough to gamble on turning that potential into reality, I could even see him late Rd 1. I don't want him as a Bengal because I don't have confidence the Bengals can adequately groom a QB. We gave them optimism last offseason, but after watching how abysmal Finley was (whom they traded up for), it'd be an uphill climb for any QB who isn't NFL-ready already.

His floor is to wash out after his rookie deal because he never proves he can read a complex defense. He is about as risky of a pick as you can make in the 1st round as it stands and nothing from the senior bowl or his tape of the season makes you feel "safe". He is a project QB with some upside and a ton of risk. The fact he compared his floor to Cousins is comical because what makes Cousins so safe is his willingness to check down and avoid turnovers, that is about the opposite of Love.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-04-2020, 10:56 AM)Au165 Wrote: His floor is to wash out after his rookie deal because he never proves he can read a complex defense. He is about as risky of a pick as you can make in the 1st round as it stands and nothing from the senior bowl or his tape of the season makes you feel "safe". He is a project QB with some upside and a ton of risk. The fact he compared his floor to Cousins is comical because what makes Cousins so safe is his willingness to check down and avoid turnovers, that is about the opposite of Love.

I agree with you.

Josh Allen was the same way though coming out of Wyoming. There was nothing making him a safe pick.

In fact, when you look at their stats of their two final years in college, you'll see some similarities:

Allen:
2016 (14 games) - 3203 yards, 56% completion, 28 TDs, 15 INTs. 144.9 rating. 523 yards rushing for 7 more TDs. 1 reception for 4 yards, TD.
2017 (11 games) - 1802 yards, 56.3% completion, 16 TDs, 6 INTs. 127.8 rating. 204 rushing yards for 5 more TDs. 1 reception for 2 yards.

Love:
2018 - (13 games) - 3567 yards, 64% completion, 32 TDs, 6 INTs. 158.3 rating. 63 yards rushing for 7 more TDs.
2019 - (13 games) - 3402 yards, 61.9% completion, 20 TDs, 17 INTs. 129.1 rating. 175 yards rushing.

It's not 100% identical (Love is a better passer whereas Allen a better runner), but both played in the MWC (non-Power 5) and declined in their final year in college compared to the previous year. Both did have a near-identical QB rating their final year.

And for further comparison sake, let's look at another somewhat recent QB from the MWC, Derek Carr (2nd round pick).
2012 - 4104 yards, 67.3 % completion, 37 TDs, 7 INTs. 155.9 rating. 
2013 - 5083 yards, 68.9% completion, 50 TDs, 8 INTs. 156.3 rating.

No one should say that a good QB can't succeed in the MWC due to lack of talent. Carr clearly was able to.

If I was choosing between Carr, Allen, and Love, I'd pick Carr. Carr didn't have as high of a ceiling as the other two, but he had a higher floor.

[Au165]

I've now re-watched all previous games on love as well as a few more for a total of 7 games. Those games are (Wake Forest, BYU, Nevada, LSU, Fresno State, Colorado State, Kent State).

I am now more convinced than ever this guy is a project and not going to be ready anytime soon. I have a serious issue with his ability to throw against zone coverage as well as throwing outside the numbers on time. He throws a nice slant and deep post, but when disguised with an underneath zone defender he turns the ball over as he predetermines his throws on pre snap reads (maybe simply pre snap play call). Surprisingly his short accuracy is not good. He constantly will throw bubble screens and swing passes away from the receiver or behind them causing them to bobble the ball or have to go back for it limiting yards after the catch.

With that said, sure he makes one or two "mahomes like" throws a game. Against LSU there is a play where he scrambles right out of the pocket and squares his shoulders up throwing a nice go ball down the sideline. The issue is he follows that up throwing an interception on a crossing route where the defender was in the WR back pocket and instead of putting it in front of his guy where on he can get it, he puts it too far inside and it gets undercut. His accuracy outside the hash marks is inconsistent, he can throw a beautiful ball then throw one into the stands on back to back plays. While he is great improvising when he is under pressure he makes horrible decisions that hurt his team and some terribly inaccurate throws when the pocket gets tight.

I don't believe he will be able to play against complex zone schemes at the next level with great success. He lacks patience to work through his reads often wanting the deep shot over a short or intermediate option, that he may or may not have even seen open. His struggles to deal with pressure are almost Jameis Winston like and his bobbled snaps remind me of Daniel Jones. As a developmental talent I think he could work in a place like New Orleans where he could possibly sit for a year, but most likely will need two, and then step in. I have seen some Collin Kapernick comparisons and I can see it, I think he is a 2nd round pick with potential but the discussion of him being a 1st round talent is people wanting so bad to recreate Patrick Mahomes, but Patrick Mahomes he is not.